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132 Responses to “Berserk 300, Angel Heart 130, Zetman 99”
Sonia I cant wait for the time when Sonia realises how much of a douche griffith is and all her dreams crumble. But you know, at least we know how understanding midland is, they dont care if they fight with monsters so maybe they will welcome Gutz evenly……..
Thank you guys for the quick release!
Btw, Miura sure is spoiling us lately…
Most of us were expecting to hear that chapter 299 wouldn’t come out before January! Yet comes Miura and offers TWO releases 299 + 300 before 2009!! Isn’t life beautiful? *trying to hide joy tears*
Marte I feel the same way. Honestly, are we the only two who are still pissed? I hate Sonia even more and like Gutz even more, too. Once Gutz gets back into the picture I am sure that theyw ill already be in Elfheim, come one where else can they pick up on? Still at sea? Griffith Griffith Griffith, if Gutz doesnt kill you I will draw pictures of myself killing you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would like to see the Guts team too, I don’t like this Griffith band. Ganishika should kill theese demons, and troops easily, he sould just trample on them and it’s over. I would like to see it when Ganis.. step on Sonia. :D:D
I think Griffith will take him down after Gan.. kill some people , if he won’t kill anyone. except for just Griffith, or Griffith will save some of his men.(sonia, the princess,)…
Or i just don’t know.
Sorry, about my English. I’m still learning it.
I was expecting that speech of Sonia, but didn’t think she’d be so reckless :S Btw, why is that you hate her? She’s a nice character – better then Princess Charlotte, at least – and she seems to know what she’s shiting about, unlike the rest of the people of Midland
Lara, to answer your question this is my deal with Sonia.
1. SOnia doesnt know who griffith really is or what he has done in the past.
2. if she does know who and what he is and has done, then it strengthens my argument as to why sonia is lame.
3. I feel like she is a random mosquito in the series just trying to poke at the fans with ironic sympathy for griffith by having us know what griffith is capable of and what the characters in the manga DONT know about Griffith. Its like a slap in the face to us.
4. Sonia is just adding more to be delt with to an even more complex story line @_@ thus progressing the already stretched out Berserk series.
5. she is obvousily worthless b/c she cant even fight. what does she do? state the obvious to come? How will that help?
I feel like it was a bad character choice on Miura’s part imo
well, I don’t quite think like that. She doesn’t know Griffith’s true nature, of course, but she’s apparently keen to follow him despite anything he might do. She’s a funny character without being idiot like Puck (I’m not against him, though) and her powers seem to be useful to him and the plot ahead (more than it’s been till now).
Also, her sympathy to Schierke (n the inverse) might go somewhere when they meet again (as she said was going to happen), probably when Guts is nearer to Griffith.
PS.: I just hope he doesn’t extend too much on her, because there are really more interesting stuff in there…
i would like to know a little more about sonia. seriously, i have no idea what she is or how she has her powers. or the extent of her powers. it shouldn’t take too long to explain about her, one chapter at the most. and from the story development lately that seems somewhat insignificant.
also, although i hate her for being a stupid bitch that got everyone on griffith’s side and she’s obviously in love with griffith, i don’t think it was a bad choice from Miura. character’s that we can hate are an important part of the series. like griffith himself.
I also hope that Caska doesnt betray Gutz after all of this. I meen. How can she?
And as for what lara said, I would like to see Sonia sympathize with Shierke and flip midland’s trust of the Hawk onto Gutz.
Shit, I totally forgot that we have yet to see his apostle form! For a second I thought that I was given a random, heroic apostle that has never made an appearance before. For some reason, I thought that he might have a connection to Guts’ berserker armor that was endowed with that wolfish entity from the astral plane. I feel that Irvine still has a larger role to play in the manga. He seems to be the only apostle with the most human attributes (well, 2nd only to Zodd. But is Zodd really an apostle? Wasn’t he a gate watcher or some shit, according to the Skull Knight?)
Although I dont like Sonia a little statement for her regarding this post here:
“she is obvousily worthless b/c she cant even fight. what does she do? state the obvious to come? How will that help?
I feel like it was a bad character choice on Miura’s part imo”
Imo she is a very important character. After Griffith’ army startet the transformation to demon form I expected some people to be confused why their white eagle leads some demons to battle. In fact Sonia is the person Griffith needs the most because she is dumb enough to give the people a reason that it is not bad to have demons fight for them. She acts like a moral booster. She was also the one making the pope an ally. He will declare Griffith as a holy man and the demons will be his angles – something like that.
Sonia is one important thing for Griffith to become the king. Force and marriage alone wouldnt have been enough. Talking about useless I wonder which role the noble kiddy will get
Yeah, 12.12.08 = New Chapter! That’s good news!
About Rakshas, well, he is often seen with the demon army so, maybe something that disgusting? Tentacles and teeth… and… well, you know!!
Sonia may not be dumb and as she knows many things about the future she may know what Griffith is really, but the point is she travels and supports him because he saved her, because she recognized him as the one in the vision, her powers got stronger from when she has been near him and most important of all, he accepts her even when other humans see her as a witch/possessed girl or just crazy, he still accepted her and not only that, but she doesn’t hate other, normal people because of him and only him. Everyone is different and acceptance is the most important thing if they want to live together!
About Sonia’s background… well, she probably lived in that castle or near it, when her family was killed in front of her by the Kushan, another woman says that… on the day the Knight and the Dragon join the hawk!
And rereading the whole manga I realized that Griffith and some demons aren’t that evil!
Look at Zodd, he was at the “Feast”, the Eclipse, just because he probably near that time and he did not participate, he just seeks someone stronger, someone worthy a battle after so many years! Then there’s Gurnbeld, the dragon, he supposedly wanted to protect his homeland, and seems even more behaved than Zodd, while the Rocks, the Knight, is a knight and acts like it, even when in demon form! Same be said of Arwain… (or Irvine) the hunter, as he is a solitary hunter, maybe just misunderstood!!
Thing is, Griffith did show interest in both the dream and Gatsu; the manga clearly shows that you can’t pursue two things you equally desire, in that case Gatsu helped his friend a lot by actually taking the initiative and quitting the Hawks, even if it was by Griffiths’ words. He became desperate after all that, they cut his tendrils, his tongue and Miura only knows what else, but most of all, he still (maybe loved) nurtured a deep friendship for Gatsu and also hated him for making him endure all that! And after he saw Caska and Gatsu at how they were all love*love, he wanted to end it all, becoming even more desperate when he hadn’t the strength to do that!! He chose his dream in the end… and raped Caska only for the child she was bearing… so he could be reborn and reach his dream castle!! After all, he killed in battle, he made Gatsu and he himself assassinated people of the court and he even went to bed with a disgusting old man only for his dream. Gatsu, to be fair isn’t any less cruel!! He may not have done it with a man willingly,… but where is the love for Caska if you look at the first chapter of the first volume of Berserk! All in all, Griffith is the Antagoinst just because Gatsu is the Protagonist… it could have easily been the other way around!
Sorry for the long comment! I am the one usually saying these are just comments about the release and not a forum!
Thanks to Evil-Genius!
Phiero what the hell? Did you just say griffith isnt all that bad? Did you not see how many people he sacrificed, the rape, the betrayal, having sex with an old man for money? Guts didnt make Griffith endure anything. Griffith was being childish b/c Gutsu wanted to live his own life and not be a slave to a preatty boy twat like Griffith. And The other apostles all had to sacrifice some one for their powers. no matter what their ethics are, its what they did that defines them. so dude what the fuck is wrong with you?
And its not tendrils its tendons.
The last to comments seem to pervay the idea that having sex with a guy is among the most evil acts of the manga. Just intresting to see it put up there along with murdering all your friends and allies and raping your best friends pregnant lady.
About Zod, even if he isn’t as evil when compared to other apostles, it’s useful to remember that to become one himself he had to betray and sacrifice the person closest to him. Such a nefarious act makes him irredeemably evil.
It’s sorta like Grumbeld who likes to put on airs of knighthood but is just an hypocrite.
Though some apostles are more complicated, like the Snail Count and most of all Roshinu.
Griffith is a traitorous scumbag. Guts put his life on the line to get him out of that prison and then pretty boy goes and sacrifices him. He is evil to the core. Guts is no sunshine either but Griffith is beyond evil.
I’m not gonna try and defend Grifith, but do try to see it from this point of view:
Grifith had 2 important things in his life, which were, first of all, his dream, and, with the later appearance of Guts, Guts himself, as his closest friend. That second thing might or might not have expanded to the 1st Band of the Hawk as a whole.
Now, Grifith had to make a choice about what he wanted the most, his dream or Guts & friends.
He made his choice. It’s not about being evil or not. (except perhaps the rape part, as we don’t know exactly why he did it, if to use the baby to a posterior rebirth, or for pure evil only, or maybe even both)
It’s not that he did not care about Guts and friends, it’s whether he cared about them more OR less than his dream, since he could not have both. Guts also made his choice when leaving the 1st Band of the Hawk, in pursuing his own “dream”, the difference is that he did not have to sacrifice the entire Band to do it.
Of course, had he not been tortured and driven to the limits of human resistance, both phisically and mentally, he would not have made such a choice.
Can YOU be COMPLETLY sure you wouldn’t do the morally wrong answer if driven to a certain point? You are only human, and human beings have a limit to their resistance. The Behelit/Beherit chooses the moment you are at your weakest to make sure you give in to “temptation”. Had it been before Grifith was captured or maybe even a little after the time it happened, maybe Grifith’s choice might have been different. And then your image of him would not be of “beyond evil” but more like “caring for friends”.
@73: The deeds that Griffith has done so far are pretty easy to cover up, and sometimes, doing evil deeds for a good cause might be the only way to salvation. If you try to see it not as “evil vs. good” but as “this side vs. that side”, and assuming that the winner writes the history… Time will still have to tell whenever griffiths actions so far are pure evil or just one side in the war against Gashinka. However, I belive that Griffith is evil, when you look back to the eclipse, but regarding this war, I cant say if Griffiths actions are evil or just… Wierd.
He has to have some praise though, Griffith is better in manipulating people than hitler and all those guys!
sigh.. griffith is just weak that`s all.. its not like he want to sacrifice gatts and band of hawk at first, its just he thinks there is no other choice to obtain his dream except sacrifice gatts co
(and presumeably to make him forget gatts)…
so he is actually VERY WEAK in heart even though he is already more or less “gods” now.
i still think he was total weakling (his hearts i mean…)gatts still stronger than him coz he doesn`t give up to evil even though he was “tempted” to darkness many times..
well thats just my personal opinion… no hard feelings,heh.
@74 yeah totally right on!
I’m gonna act like a person and use my common sense to see that there is no good vs evil but there is fucked up twats like griffith who should die and Victims of circumstances like gutsu who need to be badass and find redemption.
First there was no “good” vs. “evil”, that’s IMO why Berserk was so amazing at the beginning. You can’t really say someone is evil because of his actions, without looking at the circumstances.
Without Griffith and his demons, a lot of people would still be alive or wouldn’t have suffered greatly. Yet without them, whole Midland would be f*cked up. What did Guts do for Midland? And didn’t Guts murder Julius and his son, and lots of others?
Guts did several bad things, for a while he believed in something like social darwinism, and was only driven by his thirst for revenge. However, he slowly became the “good guy”, he has a conscience, and with the progress of the story, his actions became “more good”, probably because of his companions.
The difference between G&G is, Guts was forced into this, and still has his conscience, his humanity. Griffith has only his dream, and his pragmatic approaches. You could say that Griffith chose to be a slave of his own dream.
But is a Cat evil, because it kills mice? I wouldn’t say that Griffiths actions are evil, as he isn’t free. But you could say that his choice was evil.
I don’t know if something like free will even exists in the Berserk universe, the existance of predestination would imply that there is no “good” or “evil”, just fate. Perhaps you could see the conflict of Guts against Griffith not as “good vs. evil”, but as “self-determination vs. fate”. I even think that this God is rather some kind of mechanism than an evil being.
Sorry for the philosophical crap, just wanted to add my two cents.
Anyway, it’s cool how Miura inverts western moral views. (the hypocrisy of the church, the “good guy” as lonesome black knight, the “bad guy” as admired white messiah, both of them not pure good or evil but acting somewhere in between, etc.)
Maybe their roles will be exchanged, Griffith will initiate a new age, with Humans and Apostles living side by side, and Guts will be his Nemesis.
the reasons and the causes. Lesser Evil and Greater Evil. That’s some sophiscated topics to brag about.
“There is no such thing as Lesser Evil. There is evil and EVIL, and both of them unacceptable for me”.
on other hand “For all my sins – i will eternaly be burn in hell. But it’s better to be me, than thoes innocents. At least – that gives them a tiny chance”
Oh yeah, and thanks to the staff at evil genius for not only giving us all of the hard work that goes in to producing this stuff for us, but for actually doing a good job of translating the raws; it seems to be hard to come by except with really popular series, and I like not being confused by the english translations, and reading sentences that make sense Great job guys!
@77 lets take a look at some old babylon code, ” an eye for an eye, a tooth or a tooth, an evil for an evil.” thats actually shown in berserk as Guts has to go berserk to actually kick the living shit out of the evil Band of the Hawk apostles. we all know that apostles are fucking traitorous pricks that sacrifice part of themselves to get over something, i believe the urban term for it is EMO. But still miura shows right now only evil can kick evil’s ass becauz the good gets fucking raped. BUT, maybe this theory of evil vs evil will change when we see whats at elfhelm, some godly fucking elf or etc. Personally, im hoping for an allout berserk battle
i don’t know why,but i have a feeling that miura is changing the saga’s path,i am confused…,at the end of golden age arc griffin sacrifices his humanity to become femto,aaaand then he was reincarnated in form of his old self (also known as the hawk)by the sole intention of rescuing humans?i don’t get it…
We are all human. Death and Killing and gray zones like this is gonna happen. Its part of life and should not be considered evil, but there are points in humanity when we must step back and say yo ourselves, ;can I live with this in my society”. “sic vis pacem para bellem”
There are no good, there are no evil. No rigth or wrong.
If youthink properly, you will see that the entirely former Band was ready to die for Griffith dreams, or they wouldn’t have battled at all. The Hawks weren’t a normal mercenary band, as Miura assures to show us, they all there because of Griffith, because they believe in his dream, and were ready to die for it.
Don’t call Griffith weak. His dream was finished, he couldn’t even swing a sword. Hundreds have been sacrificed in vain, and to give a meaning to their sacrifice, he would have to keep pursuing his dream, and the only way to do that was sacrificing them all. And all of them were ready for this. They fight during the Eclipse, yeah, but they doesn’t understanding what was going on. The only that have a slight clue of what was going on was Guts, who had already decided to go for his own dream, wich none of the others did.
And if you think Griffith was weak tell me what you would do if you couldn’t walk, figth, eat, fuck or shit for your own, and was offered to you a way out, can you surely tell me you wouldn’t? Beyond all doubt?
@80 Berserk, well said. Actually, all of these arguments are pretty good. I think this effect is what Muira is after. Lots of debate and lots of grey.
I just believe Griffith was prepared to do whatever he had to from the beginning. He was one of those evil people that believe “the ends justify the means” but only in his eyes. The proper way to interpret Machiavelli’s quote is to say ‘the ends justify the means…without hurting anyone’.
Dante, if anyone has read Dante’s inferno, put betrayal of friends at the very bottom level of Hell right inside Satan’s mouth. If we take that to heart, Griffith is the worst one can get. He was tempted by evil and took it.
I really need to read through the series again because I’m missing some good points that you’ve all brought up.
Grifith was prepared do do almost anything (even having sex with a man) for his dream, though I believe sacrificing his friends was not included in that.
Before Guts left the Band and he got tortured, had he been asked if he wanted to become a GodHand, he would have refused:
1 – He would have to sacrifice his loved ones, always a VERY hard thing to do (and don’t say there are people who could do it easily, because then they wouldn’t truly love those to sacrifice)
2 – Even if becoming a GodHand would help him a lot in reaching his dream, it was not ESSENTIAL for him to reach his dream, even if it was the shortest path, it was by no means the only one.
Of course, after the torture, Grifith was but a shadow of the man he once was, only despair and frustration lived inside him, along with his almost entirely crushed dream.
He is then offered, at that precise moment, the ONLY way to achieve his dream, for all he had as a man (lol, don’t know if they cut IT or not, but no, that’s not what I mean) was taken while in that torture chamber. His body would, from that almost dead sack of bones, surpass that of a human, and with the aid of Godly powers, he could resume his quest, for his long awaited dream. He regained his hope, which he had once thought was forever lost.
After that time in the torture chamber, he stopped thinking about others. To get himself out of there, stop his endless suffering, etc. Humans may care about other people, but if driven to their limits, self-preservation instincts is the only thing that’ll move them. He was tired, and had lost all hope for his dream, drowned in pain and despair. Then, a shinning light appears, and offers him a way out, no more despair, pain or suffering. Guts and friends, perhaps they could still have a place in his heart, but he had lost it in that torture chamber. He chose his own salvation, and abandoned the others to a cruel fate…
I do not think there is anyone that would not do something as equally wrong if pushed past their limits. It’s not that Grifith was good or evil, it’s that he was offered the choice in his most vulnerable moment. We all have had times we did something we later regretted doing, because we weren’t so strong at that time. No one is strong 24/7, all the time. It was the situation that made him choose such a path.
Whether that makes him evil or not, I do not know, but I can say that Grifith was no more evil than a normal person, perhaps even less evil.
TL;DR: It was the situation that made Grifith choose such a path, he was no more evil than a normal person.
@Mad Pete: There is a difference in helping Grifith achieve his dream, even if it meant dying to protect him and his dream, and being made a living sacrifice for hungry demons so that Grifith could become some sort of a “Demon Ruler”.
They followed Grifith because they agreed with his ideals, and the kindness he showed, along with his fierce determination to achieve his dream, made them willing to follow him and help him in his quest.
The Grifith that sacrificed them was not the Grifith they had pledged to and admired, by that time he did not possess the ideals they agreed with, nor the kindness they all loved.
If, after the Eclipse had begun, but before they were attacked, they had been told everything, I believe they wouldn’t have willingly become living sacrifices. Unless, somewhere in their minds or hearts, they still believed the old Grifith was still there.
No fuckin way. I don’t betray my friends and I dont go around raping my friend’s girl or having sex with an old man just for a dream.
Ok so he became a vegetable, couldnt fuck or eat or shit or anything but bretah and waste space. But why do other people have to suffer for this? Especially your loved ones. You fuck up and they have to pay? Griffith didnt have to have sex with the princess so soon or go off into a depresive state and lose his damn mind. His actions led them where he was in that dungeona and if he took responsibility he wouldn’t have sacrficed so many innocent people. innocent for the sake of argument, because we all know corkus was a douche-bag any way.
Why do you think Dante put betrayal at the way bottom? And why do you think machiavelli is seen as a mad man? Its because human beings have stepped back and seen how far his methods could go and how diabolical it could all end. You think killing thousands of jews justifies having a stabler economy and united people of Germany? Or securing your people’s dominance and prosperity justifies the rape of millions over the years in Asia? Get outa here I know whats right and whats wrong.
I said Grifith did that choice in a moment of weakness, when his mind was already broken by the torture.
If I aproach an unknown woman on the street and ask her if she wants to do it with me, of course she’ll say no, unless she’s a whore. Now imagine I drug her or get her drunk (no, I’m not that kind of person, just making an example, hope you can understand that), if I ask her again she might say yes, because that’s a moment of weakness for her.
I’m not saying Grifith’s own actions weren’t the cause for the torture (altough I do disagree with such inhuman methods, as torture usually are), I’m saying that that whole chain of events led to making a man who would previously never betray his friends betray them.
YOU don’t betray your friends when you’re in your nnormal state.
YOU have a limit. Unless you are Superman. If you are or think you are, then don’t bother reading past this line.
Admit it, you are only human, and human beings have limits, whatever they may be, once those are broken, YOU will not act the way you think you will.
Grifith considered Gut’s leaving the Band as an act of betrayal. Ever since he had Guts by his side he believed he would always be there for him, to support him in his times of need, to help him reach his dream. And that support, that help, had just betrayed his expectations, and left.
Grifith was depressed, and wanted to vent his anger, his sadness, somewhere. when in that state of mind, a person will not be thinking rationally. You have experienced times such as those as well, right? Where, in an anger outburst, you do something you wouldn’t have done if not angry, etc.
I’m not saying that betraying your friends isn’t bad, or wrong. Im trying to explain to you and other people, in a logical way, the events and reasons that led Grifith to such a choice.
I already said I did not agree with his betrayal, nor do I agree with the jews mass murder, etc.
But saying, about Grifith: “He’s EVIL, I’m not, so I wouldn’t do that”, etc. You are a SAINT. You are PURE, the SAVIOR of Mankind, there is no evil in you.
In a similar situation, YOU wouldn’t do such things? If tortured until you couldn’t even think, having lost all hope, having suffered so much you didn’t even feel anything anymore, you would still be just the same as you are?
You’re not fooling me, only yourself.
Yes, I do not agree with what he did, sacrificing people, let alone friends, is wrong, and there’s no way to justify it.
What I’m trying to justify is the reason as to why Grifith did what he did. Not WHAT he did, but WHY he did it. I hope you understand now.
And NO, you don’t know what’s right and wrong. Do you consider eatinga dog right? Know that there are cultures who have such habits, and to them, eating dogs is right.
What’s wrong to you is right to others, and your opinion is not worth more than that of others.
eating dog is a preferance. I dont give a shit what people eat as long as it doesnt cause problems. Thats preaty much how I feel. As long as it doesnt cause serious problems or piss people off I dont give a shit, and if it does cause a problem we need to look at the problem for what it is. This is why I know what is right and what is wrong because I accept other peopls right and other peoples wrongs. WHich is what guts stands for. He is the open minded guy who knows how to get shit done and Griffith is the opinionated dictator who uses the mask of virtue to get what he wants.
But in the end we all are human and we can all agree when something seems off about what people are doing. You want to eat dog go right ahead. You want to cook rabbit and hunt ok w/e, but you dont over hunt for sport, and you dont go around killing the neighbors dog just because your hungry, and you dont judge people for eating rabbit or not eating rabbit. Its all just common sense that people forgot.
Well, a more extreme example would be cannibalism.
To cannibals, eating human people is seemingly normal, and they believe it’s right, acording to what they have been told by their parents, their education, etc.
But for you and most people, since we have been taught to treasure human life and not to kill other people, that seems wrong.
Will you still say you don’t care about it? And I’m not talking about eating one when trapped on a snowy mountain with no food whatsoever and freezing to death (real story, pretty well known), I’m talking about eating humans as a normal kind of food, when they could easily survive by eating plants and/or other animals.
And there are people who consider eating animals wrong, and believe in eating plants only. Humans are quite a hard bunch to please, really. There’s always someone with a different opinion about something.
Also, just because you don’t care about eating dogs doesn’t meant it’s not right or wrong. It just means you don’t have an opinion about it, or rather, that you consider it right if it’s part of the person’s culture, but perhaps wrong if it’s a crazy person eating a dog just because. Not all things are completly right or completly wrong, even when seen by the same person, because sometimes it depends on the situation.
Also, something that’s common sense to you may not be so for someone from another country. Do you have a problem when someone is talking to you with his hands on his pocket, or even just one hand? In Germany they strongly dislike that, and it’s common sense to not talk to someone like that. In my country, we don’t even notice something like that. People are different from one another. That’s a good thing, but also bad.
well for one thing, I never said i didnt give a shit, I said I didnt care as long as it didnt cause a problem, and cannibalism causes problem. and if your gonna judge some one by the way you put you hands in their pockets, you are a douche bag who needs to stop thinking so high of yourself. This statment is not directed to you, but to all people who judge like that. I’m not gonna get into myself. I dont need to explain any more on some forum. I’ve already gotten a grip on my own beliefs, maybe you all need to take a look at your own.
Lets just get back to our common love, berserk.Enough of this useless bickering and debating.
Woah, BerserkBerserk, no need to get defensive. We’re all just discussing points here, and after reading few Berserk’s post, I don’t think he was directly attacking you at all. This is how amazing Berserk (the manga) is, it’s so complex that we’re still discussing events that happened many, many years ago.
Now, my thoughts do echo Berserk’s posts. We are not condoning or attempting to rationise what Griffith has done, but instead we are trying to explore his psyche and mind as to how and why a man of perfection would sink so low to sacrifice his friends. We are trying to understand his downfall, not condoning it. One situation is, say that you’ve become a vegetable, and the devil comes and makes you an offer to become normal again, but you have to kill your entire family. Of course you’ll say no. But, you have to admit that in moments of anger, you might lash out at people or things and regret it later. Sometimes you can’t control your feelings in extreme cases. It is impossible to remain calm under every single situation. That’s why we have manslaughter. If you guys read any US comics, you would know that Spider Man sold his marriage to the devil to save his aunt. People still freak on about that, and about how wrong it is. Similar situation here.
Now, with Griffith’s situation, this is a man so near perfection that he’s never failed or made ANY mistakes in his life (that we’ve seen). He’s such a complex character, that he is completely different from us, so it’s pointless to attempt to rationalise him as if you were in his shoes. So when someone like him makes a mistake…they make it to extreme lengths. That’s what I believe in anyway. Remember, Griffith would do anything for his ambition and dreams. Of course, what he did, to us as readers, was incredibly wrong. I remember how I pissed off I felt when Casca was raped by Femto when I first watched the anime. Boy, was I angry. I had read the manga but hadn’t read up to that point.
And yes, cannibalism is wrong, but not to cannibals. I would not mind discussing the above mentioned topic because I personally find it quite interesting. We’re bound to have conflicting opinions about subjects, but we’re not out to prove that the other person’s opinions are wrong, but just to state your own articulately and clearly.
Well like I said before I didnt meen my statments as an attack on any one but I feel like I was being judged/ I just hate griffith because as a human being I want to stand up and say we are all equal. People like corkus in the anime make me pissed.
“You are not special and you will never be griffith’s equal”
what a douche for saying that. Its guys like that who need to get a grip on relaity and realsie we all have the potential to be somebody and beat some one at something. perhaps even surpass them.I may have my ethics but I’m still a man and you can’t expect people to act calmy in every situation, just as you said,but we must also realise that it is te ability to harness this anger and use it in one form or another or another that makes us able to look at a situatuin and judge it accordingly. I can not tell you: “this is right and this is wrogn ok you are left to fend for yourself and use these strict guidelines and make sure to avoid grey zones”. It is as obi-wan kenobi said – “Only a sith deals in absolutes”. meening, it is wrong to think so narrowmindedly in life and to find truth, we must accept everythign and judge it accordingly. what is wrong one day will may not be so bad if in a different situation and ect.
Perhaps you’re a bit sensitive BerserkBerserk, because to be honest we can’t even begin to know who you are in order to judge you. Furthermore, I don’t believe any one has directed any personal attacks on you, so there’s really no need to be angry.
However, to make it all moot about equality in Berserk (the manga), you can argue that nothing is equal in the manga, because it is all preordained by fate (Idea of Evil). Griffith is above all the rest of the people in a way, because he was fated to become Femto. Yes, we are all equal in real life (or at least, supposed to be born equal), but what we aren’t equal in is socioeconomic situations and the such, but we aren’t here to debate that. I guess the point you’re trying to put across is that life as a value is equal, and that’s the doctrine most Christians and the such go for. But hey, to be honest, in Berserk we know that the peasants will be born peasants, and nobles will be born nobles (same goes for that era). This is because that was reality of the world back in that era, and Berserk reflects that. Griffith is special because he was born a peasant/commoner and he rose to defy all odds to become a nobleman. Which is why the pure blood nobles got their pants in a notch when Griffith was standing along them equally. A peasant with equal standing with nobles? Disastrous.
As for you example for harnessing anger, some people can, and some people can’t. Which is why, as I mentioned before, we have manslaughter. But of course, this is not an excusable offense, so there’s a jail sentence attached to it. Using anger/emotion as an excuse to do shitty things is not excusable. But it does happen, let’s not deny that. Not everyone can harness their anger or whatever and use that energy for painting or whatever. Which is why Griffith’s actions were inexcusable, but we can understand how he had came to that decision and how his mindset differed from his pre-tortured, pre-vegetable state.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t know where you’re going with explaining your views and using Star Wars references and stuff. I’m still trying to figure out how that fits in the context of Berserk. You can feel free to express your views on the values of humanity and all that jazz, but it sounds like you’re trying to defend yourself. Don’t worry, you’re not being judged here, and frankly, nobody can’t judge you based on the wall on text there. You don’t have to defend yourself to me (or anyone), to be honest, I don’t really care how you are like in real life. I don’t know you personally, and I don’t care what religion you follow in real life or what you do as a job and I really don’t have an interest to know. Just chill, dude. We’ll just talking about Berserk, here. So feel free to channel your thoughts in relation with Berserk.
Eldo, what you said is quite interesting because up until now I haven’t seen things under that light, I more or less severly condemned Griffith for his actions (especially the Casca rape). But one thing I was ok with though is when he slept with the old man to have money. It’s perhaps the most altruist action he’s ever done in the manga, sparing the lives of his army and sleeping one night with a pervert (though it was totaly calculated I agree). I remember how bad I felt for days after watching the rape scene in the anime (and even more in the manga. The mere fact that so many people were shocked, disgusted, appalled by Griffith’s act show how much that old fool of Miura masters his shiznit! How many mangas, books or even movies invested us this much emotionally? But anyway that’s only a small digression…Eldo, don’t you think that Griffith would have done what he did even if not under such severe circumstances? Say if he had been given the choice with all his mental and physical abilities? I think he would’ve at least strongly considered it and maybe even accepted it…Griffith is one heartless son of a bitch (who just happens to live his half hour of glory right meow)
“Not everyone can harness their anger or whatever and use that energy for painting or whatever.”
That was so funny the way you put it.
I agree with you on many points. Morality itself is a man made illusion that supposedly favors happiness and survival for oneself or a group, no matter what situation you are in. Everyone has a moment of weakness. EVERYONE has had (or will have) a moment in their lives they don’t give a damn if other people die, even their loved ones.
Also, on the subject of “self-determination vs. fate”. It could be said it was gatz’s fate to survive the seemingly unsurvivable (referring to his birth) in an emotional way. Plus, he’s been treated in the worst way as a child and it’s expected that when big things happen unexpectedly that’s the time he does things by pure instinct. His mind will always survive in the end, even though he doesn’t plan ahead.
Gatz is a planner and, unlike gatz, when things happen that aren’t apart of the plan (or at least when he loses a very important resource for his plan) he falls apart.
The spirit of gatz and caskas offspring is still in him, and has some affect on his psyche when caska and gatz are concerned. I wonder how it will turn out.
I believe griffith is evil because he’s a very good deceiver, like hitler was. If the whole truth was known to everyone, they wouldn’t follow him. He’s the kind of person that offers a piece of candy made of poison, even though you get that satisfaction of sweetness you die a miserable death, and it was all your choice. lol
Cabbagesoup, if Griffith was given the choice and offer that he made at the eclipse, say, before Guts left, I’ll have to say that he’ll refuse. That’s because everything was lined up for him, so he didn’t need to make the choice. Anyway, he loves playing the game and he was good at it. That’s why he’s playing up the whole saviour role right now.
is griffith supposed to bring in the age or darkness or the age of light? as femto i thought it was the former, but didn’t the behelit monster wish for reincarnated griffith to fix the world? i kind of got the feeling that being reincarnated ended the age of darkness and griffith really is the hawk of light
To those un-aware, damn Miura has decided to take a looong
break again from Berserk serialization and get back into
moe-lolicon stuff (he supposedly is a huge fan of the stuff)
so… NO BERSERK FOR A WHILE. He also bought an X-Box (not 360) to use during his spare time. Just damnit… He just got started with a good release schedule, and here he goes off again… Snagged by the moe-lolicon trash… I can’t believe this crap. The same goes for Takaya. Hirohiko is the true winner, making the most stuff (since early 80s, to this day) and always on schedule no matter what happens to him (death in family members, etc.) He truly IS a mangaka GOD. (afterall, his manga has the 2nd most # of volumes in manga history altogether). Anyhow, ENOUGH. Let’s wait for #301 to get scanlated. Hopefully it won’t take long.
Yeah… Just shows that Miura doesn’t give a damn about his readers what-so-ever. Shigeno is pretty bad, but not as bad as Miura. Once Miura makes up his mind, there’s no stopping him. Berserk might go-on, say stretched in this manner for another 10+ years, who knows… We apparently DO know that
Miura can dogg around in this fashion for ages, and all that we can really do is just suck-it-up and endlessly debate various future outcomes for Berserk, until Miura decides to come along and carve into stone whatever plot he had in mind
before of-course taking the usual vacation marathon.
Indeed. Shonen Jump crap like Naruto and Bleach get plopped out on weekly basis like that big dinner dish you tend to get on weekday nights. Very plain, simple and stupid. On the other hand, Berserk, Guyver, Steel Ball Run and Gantz are monthly/bi-monthly mangas which have had thought put into every single panel. They are also good enough for us to stay interested in no matter how long the breaks between each chapter tend to get. But nontheless, Mr.Miura just had a long break, released 3-4 chapters, then decides to take an even longer break for very inexcusable reasons. Purely unreasonable.