Berserk Chapter: 282

Evil_Genius' Berserk community, Kentaro Miura's epic masterpiece, still active and translated. (Please don't ask about older Volumes. Buy from DarkHorse and support Miura.)

Moderator: EG Members

Istvan
Crusher of Dreams
Posts: 1826
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: The deepest depths of the Primordial Darkness

Post by Istvan »

EDIT: ERROR, that's not it. can griffith and the god hand gather enough power to oppose idea? Can all their powers, skull knight, Caska, Griffith, Guts, can their combined power slay idea? Or is that another error in my logic.
I would presume that it would be impossible for any Apostle or God's Hand (or even all of them) to oppose Idea, both since they are still within fate, with Idea being the one who controls fate, and also because Idea is the source of their powers. I doubt they can use those powers against Idea, who gave them said powers. Besides, why would they want to?

As for any one else killing it... hard to say but I doubt it. First, how would they get to it? It exists deep in the Vortex, essentially impossible to reach, unless it brought you to there (like Griffith). Second, how would you kill it? Idea was born from the collective unconsciousness of all of humanity. How can you kill something like that? And even if they somehow did, what would stop it forming again? After all, even if you somehow killed it, humanity would probably just create it again.
User avatar
42ndEndOfTheWorld
This is my new home
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Serbia, rotten city of Novi Sad

Post by 42ndEndOfTheWorld »

Yeah, the only way to kill it would be to change the humanity somehow. Well, maybe when they realize that Griffith is just a wolf in sheep clothing, maybe then they will became more critical about other apparent heroes, and stop blaming others for a shit they are causing to each other... I know, I know wishful thinking, but you never know with Miura.
What is good?-Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man.
What is evil?-Whatever springs from weakness.
What is happiness?-The feeling that power increases-that resistance is overcome.

Nietzsche
azn_l10n
imanewbie
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:51 am

Post by azn_l10n »

yeah, the way Miura ends the darkness of Berserk is with peace and teddy bears...

If that happens, I'll drink myself to death.
User avatar
42ndEndOfTheWorld
This is my new home
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Serbia, rotten city of Novi Sad

Post by 42ndEndOfTheWorld »

azn_l10n wrote:yeah, the way Miura ends the darkness of Berserk is with peace and teddy bears...

If that happens, I'll drink myself to death.
not necessarily. Is Guts dark dude? Yes he is, especially the one from Black Swordsman arc. But he is not a wolf in sheep clothing and he is not so manipulative. So it is possible to have a dark world even without people like post-eclipse Griffith and Ganishka. I am talking about destroying the Idea Of Evil and putting Neutral Idea (or something) in its place, not vanquishing all evil or something. Miura himself have stated that he wants positive (or optimistic, I am not sure) ending, and that's exactly what I am advocating here.
What is good?-Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man.
What is evil?-Whatever springs from weakness.
What is happiness?-The feeling that power increases-that resistance is overcome.

Nietzsche
Istvan
Crusher of Dreams
Posts: 1826
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: The deepest depths of the Primordial Darkness

Post by Istvan »

Yeah, but the problem with that idea (no pun intended) is that you would have to change the nature of all (or at least most) people all around the world, for all time, or Idea will still come back. Frankly, I can't picture any scenario that could possibly come close to accomplishing that. And a poorly constructed ending that pretended to do something along those lines would make me... intensly upset with Miura.
Libaax
Of The Abyss
Posts: 6444
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:21 am
Location: Hell if i know

Post by Libaax »

The idea isnt something you can kill.


He is the closest to god in this manga, an evil god but still.


Yeah i think like istvan that you have to change human nature to do something to the Idea.
Istvan
Crusher of Dreams
Posts: 1826
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: The deepest depths of the Primordial Darkness

Post by Istvan »

According to it, Idea isn't just like a god, it is a god, albiet one created by humanity. Don't know how much that's worth, of course, but that's what it claims.
User avatar
Sandman
Dirty Sennin
Posts: 2207
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Life is a bitch in bush Alaska

Post by Sandman »

Libaax wrote:The idea isnt something you can kill.


He is the closest to god in this manga, an evil god but still.


Yeah i think like istvan that you have to change human nature to do something to the Idea.
I see what your saying Guts needs to show people the light :twisted: altough I think that could be sheirke's job.

I wonder if a sudden shift in peoples human nature would cause Idea to weaken?? Interesting...
Image
Thank you sir, may I have another :twisted: :whip:
Istvan
Crusher of Dreams
Posts: 1826
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: The deepest depths of the Primordial Darkness

Post by Istvan »

But again, it would have to be a worldwide, longterm (as in multiple generations) change to have any impact on Idea, and I just don't see that happening. So I don't think "showing people the light" would work, no matter who did it.
User avatar
Sandman
Dirty Sennin
Posts: 2207
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Life is a bitch in bush Alaska

Post by Sandman »

Well when Griffith shows his dark side people will be looking for an alternitve to his rule that is when it will be time to strike at the peoples moral characters and perception.
Image
Thank you sir, may I have another :twisted: :whip:
inkthinker
Found the Edit button
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:51 am

Post by inkthinker »

I should think the way to counter the Idea of Evil is to discover the Idea of Good.

It makes sense that such an entity would exist. If the Idea of Evil is the personification of all man's pain, hatred, despair, anguish, cruelty and agony, then it would stand to reason that there might exist a personification of man's love, joy, kindess, charity, hope and happiness.

Even in a world as dark as this one, there is still goodness.
User avatar
42ndEndOfTheWorld
This is my new home
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Serbia, rotten city of Novi Sad

Post by 42ndEndOfTheWorld »

Nah, I wouldn't like to see this turned into yet another good vs evil tale. And I don't really believe in good and evil in that sense. Good can be in a way some kind of freedom from bigass Ideas, so-called heroes and wishful thinking, so Idea of Good is an oxymoron.

But that's my view, I could be wrong.
What is good?-Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man.
What is evil?-Whatever springs from weakness.
What is happiness?-The feeling that power increases-that resistance is overcome.

Nietzsche
Jon Maitreya
notanewb
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:48 pm

Post by Jon Maitreya »

Well, in teh oriignal Platonic philosophy there was onyl an Idea of Good, so I see no reaosn why there shouldn;t be just an Idea of Evil in Berserk.

'Good' would therefore be distance from the Idea, whereas 'Evil' would be closeness to it (e.g. the Godhand, Apostles, etc.), very liek the original philosophy, whereas the more 'Good' one was was how close one was to realising the 'Idea of Good'.

I do not tihnk there will be an IoG in Berserk, at least I hope so.
User avatar
EnglishJim
This is my new home
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:08 pm

Post by EnglishJim »

42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:Nah, I wouldn't like to see this turned into yet another good vs evil tale.
Damn straight! I would hate that...

Idea describes itself as the desired God because people wanted reasons for all the suffering and cruelty in the world. Of course, all evil deeds and undesirable fates must be the act of a higher power, right? Thus, in the deepest layer of the abyss where human emotions are collective, Idea came into being. :twisted: Now, why would mankind seek reasons for all of virtue and happiness? People only look to "God" for answers in times of need. If a "good" deity does exist, I don't think it would have been created by the will of man as Idea was.

Sandman: I'm liking the scary-looking ava. :)
User avatar
Sandman
Dirty Sennin
Posts: 2207
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Life is a bitch in bush Alaska

Post by Sandman »

EnglishJim wrote:
42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:Nah, I wouldn't like to see this turned into yet another good vs evil tale.
Damn straight! I would hate that...
I have always seen this manga for a good vs. evil although it might not be your typical God vs. the Devil battle, but I have always seen Guts as the good guy and Griffith as the bad guy... even during the Golden Age I always knew he was going to fuck shit up :evil:
EnglishJim wrote: Sandman: I'm liking the scary-looking ava. :)
Thanks :cool:
Image
Thank you sir, may I have another :twisted: :whip:
User avatar
42ndEndOfTheWorld
This is my new home
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Serbia, rotten city of Novi Sad

Post by 42ndEndOfTheWorld »

EnglishJim wrote:
42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:Nah, I wouldn't like to see this turned into yet another good vs evil tale.
Damn straight! I would hate that...

Idea describes itself as the desired God because people wanted reasons for all the suffering and cruelty in the world. Of course, all evil deeds and undesirable fates must be the act of a higher power, right? Thus, in the deepest layer of the abyss where human emotions are collective, Idea came into being. :twisted: Now, why would mankind seek reasons for all of virtue and happiness? People only look to "God" for answers in times of need. If a "good" deity does exist, I don't think it would have been created by the will of man as Idea was.

Sandman: I'm liking the scary-looking ava. :)
Finally someone got it all. Quoted for truth
What is good?-Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man.
What is evil?-Whatever springs from weakness.
What is happiness?-The feeling that power increases-that resistance is overcome.

Nietzsche
Istvan
Crusher of Dreams
Posts: 1826
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: The deepest depths of the Primordial Darkness

Post by Istvan »

Damn straight! I would hate that...

Idea describes itself as the desired God because people wanted reasons for all the suffering and cruelty in the world. Of course, all evil deeds and undesirable fates must be the act of a higher power, right? Thus, in the deepest layer of the abyss where human emotions are collective, Idea came into being. Now, why would mankind seek reasons for all of virtue and happiness? People only look to "God" for answers in times of need. If a "good" deity does exist, I don't think it would have been created by the will of man as Idea was.

Sandman: I'm liking the scary-looking ava.
Exactly! People often complain and ask God why he let something bad happen (ex. a loved one dies) but no one ever asks why good things happen in their lives, they just take it for granted. Idea was created to be that reason for the bad things.

This also means that any attempt to "transform" the people, in order to destroy Idea in this manga would require not getting everyone to be nice, but having everyone accept that there is no reason why bad things happen to them, it's just bad luck, random chance, etc. If you think about it, this would actually be even more difficult then making everyone "good".
User avatar
Khelegond
Flexing spam muscles
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:05 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil

Post by Khelegond »

Hmmm. Maybe (and this is a huge maybe), since the lost chapter is still lost (meaning it won't be published - not soon, anyway), Miura has changed his mind? Maybe he found out that he's cornered on the whole 'Idea' thing.

Someone knows why the lost chapter won't be published?
Image
User avatar
psi29a
Godo
Posts: 5386
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:52 am
Location: The Lonely Mountain
Contact:

Post by psi29a »

It is almost that time again.. *grin*
CowardlyHero
imanewbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:11 am

Post by CowardlyHero »

:nosebleed:
User avatar
42ndEndOfTheWorld
This is my new home
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Serbia, rotten city of Novi Sad

Post by 42ndEndOfTheWorld »

psi29a wrote:It is almost that time again.. *grin*
??
User avatar
Sandman
Dirty Sennin
Posts: 2207
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Life is a bitch in bush Alaska

Post by Sandman »

oh come on you know what that means :roll: :twisted:
Image
Thank you sir, may I have another :twisted: :whip:
User avatar
BaNaN
imanewbie
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Post by BaNaN »

I love those times :wink:
Istvan
Crusher of Dreams
Posts: 1826
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:18 pm
Location: The deepest depths of the Primordial Darkness

Post by Istvan »

Those times are truly the best. I've been looking forward to it all week.
Eldo
Of The Abyss
Posts: 7435
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Yours or mine?

Post by Eldo »

It's actually released.

I had it done a while ago but I kept it silent. Heh, I meant that I forgot to tell anyone.
Image

I don't think half the toilet seats in the world are as clean as I should like; and only half of those are half as clean as they deserve. - tsubaimomo, July 26, 2010 3:00 am
Post Reply