Evil Genius

Thanks for the chapter EG.

Thanks for the new chapter!! Im loving it and cant wait for 283, hopefully we get to see what Griffith's new body is capable of in the next chapter.

Actually, I would not say that I am underestimating. I stated that there are limits to everything in the Berserk world and that includes the God Hand and apostles.

Void can bend space, yes, but does that mean necessarily that Griffith can as well? We have not yet seen any proof that all God Hand share the same ability. For that matter, it seems very evident that each God Hand has their own abilities and play their own roles.

I will without any doubt say that Ganishka will lose. But I highly doubt it to be a "snap of the finger" loss. I don't think Griffith will have excessive problems but I won't assume it's a walk in the park as well. Sure, one can argue that we have not seen the extent of Griffith's power but that is to say that there must be more. Who said there will be more? What if we have seen it all? Although unlikely, Griffith is not limitlessly powerful. If so, Gatts stands no chance. I believe there is a weakness in Griffith and I think that's partial to the body he inherits. Will that weakness show in this confrontation with Ganishka?!? Most likely not.

Do I see Ganishka causing physical pain to Griffith? Yes, I do. Do I see him inflicting an injury? No, I do not.

Surely, Ganishka is much stronger than Gatts was pre-berserker armor. Gatts with the pre-berserker armor had the power to take down a physical manifestation of the woman god hand. The griffith as we see is also a physical manifestation of Femto (albeit, possibly more because he literally was born here, not just composed of body matter). I wouldn't doubt so easily that Ganishka can do some pain, but I doubt he'll do damage.

An Overlord is not necessarily the most powerful in any sense, berserk is not an alpha dog story. If so, Gatts is dead, end of story. I do not doubt that Griffith is in control and that the emperor is pissing his pants but Gatts won most of his early impossible fights because of desperation. What is to say that Ganishka can't lift a finger?

It sounds like people are making Ganishka this ant thingy while Griffith a huge dragon of some sort. I see it more as a master/dog relationship. The dog can bite the hand but the master always win (well, under normal circumstances, let's not consider handicaps or mutant sized dogs, etc).

And Skull Knight said that not a being of the mortal world can touch Griffith. In order to touch him, you must be out of the Mortal World. Like the forest witch, Gatts, and Ganishka as well.

As for those who may say Griffith easily beat Zodd. Well, Zodd has a physical shape. Ganishka is mist. Furthermore, without Gatts, I would have expected that Ganishka would have owned Zodd. Although not as easily as Griffith did, but enough.

azn_l10n wrote:And Skull Knight said that not a being of the mortal world can touch Griffith. In order to touch him, you must be out of the Mortal World. Like the forest witch, Gatts, and Ganishka as well.

Let me remind you as to exactly what Skull Knight said (bear in mind this is a Hawks scanlation), "The Hawk is now something that is outside the reason of the real world. There is not a single being who can threaten him here". This clearly implies that Griffith is untouchable in the mortal world. "To touch or to challenge the Hawk, you too must be one who resides outside the tale". This could mean that one must be outside the real world, but it's also possible that Skull Knight was speaking metaphorically about fate.

Fate is similar to a story in that everything is pre-determined. Little things may differ, but the end result is always the same. Thanks to Idea's manipulation, Griffith is now destined to take the throne and not a single soul can stand in his way, including the Emperor. So, is Ganishka outside of fate? In my opinion, no he is not. Idea fashioned the Emperor as a convenient obstacle for Griffith, a tool he could use to achieve his dream. Therefore, Ganishka cannot hurt Griffith and is fated to lose. However, I do think that Guts has the potential to defeat Griffith. He was destined to die in eclipse as a sacrifice, that's where his fate ended as far as Idea was concerned, but he survived.

azn_l10n wrote:An Overlord is not necessarily the most powerful in any sense, berserk is not an alpha dog story. If so, Gatts is dead, end of story. I do not doubt that Griffith is in control and that the emperor is pissing his pants but Gatts won most of his early impossible fights because of desperation. What is to say that Ganishka can't lift a finger?

Because his defeat is inevitable and there's bugger all he can do about it. "An overlord isn't necessarily the most powerful"? True, but I believe it is in Berserk. I've no doubt that Griffith is certainly more powerful than the apostles he rules, and that goes for Ganishka too. What would imply otherwise? And no, I don't think that means "Guts is dead, end of story". If what was said in the "miura's absence" thread is true, the story is only half complete, maybe less. That leaves plenty of time for Guts to develop new abilities... or for Griffith to lose some of his power under some strange circumstance (unlikely, but I'd like to see that).

Surely, Ganishka is much stronger than Gatts was pre-berserker armor. Gatts with the pre-berserker armor had the power to take down a physical manifestation of the woman god hand. The griffith as we see is also a physical manifestation of Femto (albeit, possibly more because he literally was born here, not just composed of body matter). I wouldn't doubt so easily that Ganishka can do some pain, but I doubt he'll do damage.

Two points. First, she basically let him do that (you notice how pleased she was to get stabbed), so you can hardly say that he did it by his own power. Heck, look how she treated him in the first moments, it's obvious she could have killed him anytime she wanted to. Second, the reason he could hurt her was because his sword can harm high-astral beings. If Griffith is still high-astral (which given SK's comments, I expect that he is) then I'm not convinced that the Emperor can even touch him. The fact that he is also a higher astral being then the Emperor ought to let him strike the Emperor's "real" body, without having the trouble others do.

Thanks for the chapter EG.

About Griffith vs. Ganishka: Somehow, I don't think that Griffith will kill Ganishka, if given the chance. Griffith's goal (ever since he got a new body) is to strengthen his forces (thus making it easier for him to gain a kingdom). And Ganishka is one hell of a powerful being (he even defeat Zodd). Not the mention the fact that the Emperor of Kushan does not seem to *hate* Griffith.

It only a matter of how many chapters it take for Griffith to defeat Ganishka.

Also, what is the name of the guy that peak on the roof? Somehow, I never remember his name.


If Griffith have that guy and Ganishka to join his force, then he is practically infinitely unbeatable.

Volume 8, chapter 6, page 10.
"People cannot ignore it when looking upon someone they fear. There are 2 actions one can take; Bowing down to the source of that fear, or getting rid of the fear by getting rid of that existance."

Ganishka made his choice and he will die.

Ganishaka will not bow to Griffith, we will try to kill him and Griffith will touch the spot where Guts cut him and booom dead emperor

not that he needed that spot its just convenient

That is just what I think.

Right up till now, Ganishka still thinks that he is more powerful than Griffith, that is why he challenge Griffith. He reminds me of that fat bald short guy in Midland during the 'golden era'. Griffith spare him even though he try/attempt to manipulate others to kill Griffith many times. Now he is too traumatize to care about politics anymore.

EnglishJim wrote: This could mean that one must be outside the real world, but it's also possible that Skull Knight was speaking metaphorically about fate.

Fate is similar to a story in that everything is pre-determined. Little things may differ, but the end result is always the same....Therefore, Ganishka cannot hurt Griffith and is fated to lose. However, I do think that Guts has the potential to defeat Griffith. He was destined to die in eclipse as a sacrifice, that's where his fate ended as far as Idea was concerned, but he survived.

Okay, it is possible. And in that possibility, the witch has also pushed herself outside of fate since she mentions having lived past her time. Now, would one say Skull Knight is out of fate as well? In order for the apostles to not be considered out of fate, it would have to be said that Idea is the one that controls fate. Sounds reasonable, because the fate of all humans is death and apostles have escaped that.

About Ganishka not being able to hurt Griffith, I still disagree.
Why? Let's see, I am differentiating between hurt and injure here. I believe that Ganishka may have what is necessary to cause pain but not inflict a wound on Griffith. For example, if I poke you hard enough, you will most likely feel the pain but you certainly won't be injured by my poking (unless you are female, )

That is my point. I think Ganishka actually has enough ability to lay a finger, but not actually do anything with his finger laying.

I just read the two new chapters and i must say storwise more things happened in these two than the last 20 chapter it seems.




Griffith is very effective, man the battle isnt even fair. I mean only Zodd is cheating but to have an army of the like poor kushan.


The emperor is a little crazy, he even knows how he cant do anything against Griffith but he still tries.


It will be interesting to see how Griffith takes him down without showing he is a demon.

About Griffith vs. Ganishka: Somehow, I don't think that Griffith will kill Ganishka, if given the chance. Griffith's goal (ever since he got a new body) is to strengthen his forces (thus making it easier for him to gain a kingdom). And Ganishka is one hell of a powerful being (he even defeat Zodd). Not the mention the fact that the Emperor of Kushan does not seem to *hate* Griffith.

I'm pretty sure this won't happen. True, Griffith does try to strengthen his own forces, for the sake of getting a kingdom, but you have to remember that it is for getting the kingdom. Allying with the Emperor would actually hurt that goal (plus I don't see the Emperor going for it) at this point. The Emperor has built up too much hate and animosity against himself, and too many of people think of him as evil incarnate for me to believe that an attempt by Griffith to add him to his forces wouldn't backfire. I'm pretty sure Griffith will just kill him.

Also, what is the name of the guy that peak on the roof? Somehow, I never remember his name.

I'm pretty sure that you're talking about Silatt.

About Ganishka not being able to hurt Griffith, I still disagree.
Why? Let's see, I am differentiating between hurt and injure here. I believe that Ganishka may have what is necessary to cause pain but not inflict a wound on Griffith. For example, if I poke you hard enough, you will most likely feel the pain but you certainly won't be injured by my poking (unless you are female, )

That is my point. I think Ganishka actually has enough ability to lay a finger, but not actually do anything with his finger laying.

I disagree, I think Griffith will basically crush him effortlessly, but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. At this point I doubt either of us will convince the other, so it's probably best to just wait for the next chapter (or two) and find out for ourselves.

The emperor is just an apostle.


The God Hands would be simple apostles if an apostle like the emperor was a match for them.





Also Griffith isnt stupid why would he need the emperor who is an enemy of midlands.

He might need him for some unforeseen mission, but I don t think that is it, he might need to show his people that he can be merciful and let the kushan surrender or something like that but I would like to see a good fight here, god knows we are not going to see anyone else rival Griffith until Guts comes back from his side quest.

azn_l10n wrote:For example, if I poke you hard enough, you will most likely feel the pain but you certainly won't be injured by my poking (unless you are female, )

Uh oh, I hope no crazy feminist catches sight of that...

azn_l10n wrote:Okay, it is possible. And in that possibility, the witch has also pushed herself outside of fate since she mentions having lived past her time. Now, would one say Skull Knight is out of fate as well? In order for the apostles to not be considered out of fate, it would have to be said that Idea is the one that controls fate. Sounds reasonable, because the fate of all humans is death and apostles have escaped that.

It's true that Idea controls destiny, it even says so itself during the eclipse. Admittedly, that particular chapter (A.K.A. The Lost Chapter) was removed from the collected manga, but that was because of a "too much info too early" kinda thing, so I imagine the fact still stands.

And since Idea is the one who controls "fate", and Idea created the Apostles, it would seem absurd to try to claim that the Apostles are also outside of fate.

I got tired of thinking like that so the way I look at everything is that it was meant to happen It makes thinking a lot less painful. And just to let people know there is a pre-curser to the end of the series, after Guts and Casca escape the god hand are talking about how the world will be in darkness and then they say "Later People will call this the age of darkness"

42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:From now on, you are my overlords

The release is good, although I am a bit disappointed with the way the story turned out. It seems that, after all, Kushan Emperor had no great plan at destroying Griffith, he just lined up all his human troops and hoped for the best. Not a great strategy against godhand, I think. Anyway Ganiska is now in cloud form, which is not all that impressive because we have already seen Guts defeating him in that form, and Griffith is certainly much stronger at a moment.

But on the other hand, Ganiska is meant to be destroyed, so it is kind of logical for him to become drunken with power and overestimate himself, and I am more interested to see what will Griffith do once he gets his kingdom, so maybe this is a wise move from Miura, the story has to end in this century.... right?.....riiight?

NO. The story dies with Miura hopefully(that is he at least leaves the whole plot written in book form, as it seems he takes his time with drawings, before going on to a better life.). I hope Griffith at least offers him a place by his side, or at the least the guy should put up a fight. It would be too cheesy, in my opinion, if he got instant ko.

A truce would probably be best, even if he can beat him, it would dishonor the kushan and damage their morale if their king was taken down or bowed before another king. Seeing as he and his troops can hold their own agaisnt most any apostle, they'd make a great asset. Better to have them as foreign allies, who knows what other enemies idea and the godhand may have.

Most likely even the godhand is subject to the laws idea follows, to allow apostles' rights to be respected by members of the godhand. If that is so, the emperor will be asked to make a sacrifice in some metaphorical way, depending on his answer will be griffith's response. I'm pretty sure members of the godhand can't go outright and kill apostles left and right without reason, even if it is to get what they want, there has to be a code of honor amongst them. A law upheld even by the godhand.

Young Animal has posted a preview of 283 on their website...

Good Catch there Jim... I wonder how long they stare each other down??

thanks for the heads up, nice preview

nightofchaos wrote:

42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:From now on, you are my overlords

The release is good, although I am a bit disappointed with the way the story turned out. It seems that, after all, Kushan Emperor had no great plan at destroying Griffith, he just lined up all his human troops and hoped for the best. Not a great strategy against godhand, I think. Anyway Ganiska is now in cloud form, which is not all that impressive because we have already seen Guts defeating him in that form, and Griffith is certainly much stronger at a moment.

But on the other hand, Ganiska is meant to be destroyed, so it is kind of logical for him to become drunken with power and overestimate himself, and I am more interested to see what will Griffith do once he gets his kingdom, so maybe this is a wise move from Miura, the story has to end in this century.... right?.....riiight?

NO. The story dies with Miura hopefully(that is he at least leaves the whole plot written in book form, as it seems he takes his time with drawings, before going on to a better life.). I hope Griffith at least offers him a place by his side, or at the least the guy should put up a fight. It would be too cheesy, in my opinion, if he got instant ko.

A truce would probably be best, even if he can beat him, it would dishonor the kushan and damage their morale if their king was taken down or bowed before another king. Seeing as he and his troops can hold their own agaisnt most any apostle, they'd make a great asset. Better to have them as foreign allies, who knows what other enemies idea and the godhand may have.

Most likely even the godhand is subject to the laws idea follows, to allow apostles' rights to be respected by members of the godhand. If that is so, the emperor will be asked to make a sacrifice in some metaphorical way, depending on his answer will be griffith's response. I'm pretty sure members of the godhand can't go outright and kill apostles left and right without reason, even if it is to get what they want, there has to be a code of honor amongst them. A law upheld even by the godhand.

His troops hold thier own against most any apostle?

Are we reading the same manga? They are getting killed like flies by much smaller number.

Also Neo hawkls arent any apostle.

A truce would probably be best, even if he can beat him, it would dishonor the kushan and damage their morale if their king was taken down or bowed before another king. Seeing as he and his troops can hold their own agaisnt most any apostle, they'd make a great asset. Better to have them as foreign allies, who knows what other enemies idea and the godhand may have.

Idea doesn't have any enemies, beyond maybe an individual (like Guts) here and there. Idea is the one who manipulates the entire world. Idea created the Emperor solely to give Griffith someone to fight against in order to obtain his dream.

Most likely even the godhand is subject to the laws idea follows, to allow apostles' rights to be respected by members of the godhand. If that is so, the emperor will be asked to make a sacrifice in some metaphorical way, depending on his answer will be griffith's response. I'm pretty sure members of the godhand can't go outright and kill apostles left and right without reason, even if it is to get what they want, there has to be a code of honor amongst them. A law upheld even by the godhand.

Sorry, no. It has been stated several places in the manga that the only command given is "do as you will". Thus Apostles are free to oppose the God's Hand (such as Wyald and the Emperor) and the God's Hand are free to kill Apostles. Mostly Griffith doesn't, but that's a matter of practicality, not law.

Istvan wrote:

A truce would probably be best, even if he can beat him, it would dishonor the kushan and damage their morale if their king was taken down or bowed before another king. Seeing as he and his troops can hold their own agaisnt most any apostle, they'd make a great asset. Better to have them as foreign allies, who knows what other enemies idea and the godhand may have.

Idea doesn't have any enemies, beyond maybe an individual (like Guts) here and there. Idea is the one who manipulates the entire world. Idea created the Emperor solely to give Griffith someone to fight against in order to obtain his dream.

Most likely even the godhand is subject to the laws idea follows, to allow apostles' rights to be respected by members of the godhand. If that is so, the emperor will be asked to make a sacrifice in some metaphorical way, depending on his answer will be griffith's response. I'm pretty sure members of the godhand can't go outright and kill apostles left and right without reason, even if it is to get what they want, there has to be a code of honor amongst them. A law upheld even by the godhand.

Sorry, no. It has been stated several places in the manga that the only command given is "do as you will". Thus Apostles are free to oppose the God's Hand (such as Wyald and the Emperor) and the God's Hand are free to kill Apostles. Mostly Griffith doesn't, but that's a matter of practicality, not law.

Interesting that was something missing from my dream of an ideal world, I'll be sure to add it. Pure evil left to run free amongst the lands... wonderful! Thanks!

EDIT: ERROR, that's not it. can griffith and the god hand gather enough power to oppose idea? Can all their powers, skull knight, Caska, Griffith, Guts, can their combined power slay idea? Or is that another error in my logic.

Hmn, I think Griffith might have an ability to control others with his touch?
I was thinking back when Zodd 'let' himself be patted or something like that a while back.