Evil Genius

I think that's about enough spam for me now. I'm outta here.

Hopefully Starlore will post an interesting reply by tomorrow or maybe someone whose every post is NOT spam (i.e. almost nobody here), will try to comment on this.

Starlore is pooped. I dont think shell be postin for at least a day. But i could be proven wrong. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Im eager to see how this debate turns out.

Fine be that way I supported your theory. Everyone read my post and know my feelings on the subject of "everything happens for a reason" so there is no real reason to repeat myself.

If you haven't read my post I just said that believing the "everything happens for a reason" theory puts you in a better spot of not taking responsiblity for your actions because you can "so-call" support your claim with religion. Not that I have anything against religion of any sort, ok I do but I'm not pushing it. Believe what you will , this is the internet and my thoughts mean truely nothing.

Malvado wrote:If you haven't read my post I just said that believing the "everything happens for a reason" theory puts you in a better spot of not taking responsiblity for your actions because you can "so-call" support your claim with religion. Not that I have anything against religion of any sort, ok I do but I'm not pushing it. Believe what you will , this is the internet and my thoughts mean truely nothing.

I am not trying to shit on any one's religion as well, but I have to agree with Femto that you should not bring religion into any type of discussion that is not faith based. I feel that this discussion is more based on how the "world works," or how and why people act the way they do. Things happen because of individuals decisions, not some external force or something.

trying to edit down my post which was a little more than 2 pages double spaced in word. you will have a counter argument in a little bit

Femto wrote:Nope.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gargantuan

I know you hate me Buz, but coming with lame points like that is not your style.

what the hell, that dictionary lies!

The English language is flexible, so i say fuck the dictionary. by making "gargantuan" into a noun is how languages evolve. so one day his usage of the word will be considered correct if others do it often enough. do you want ot be like the french and strictly regulate our language . actually i probably woudlnt be against that heh

I will be the first to admit that I have a damn good life style. Though I have it made it life, I don’t see how my belief that things happen for a reason makes me selfish. I also think that god isn’t a bullshit argument. I think it’s near impossible to have this argument without god in the picture. The whole basis behind the statement itself is god. People NEED justification in life for all the shit that happens to them. A starving kid in Africa, china, Colombia, or even the United States needs some sort of hope or belief that they aren’t just starving in vain. That’s where the whole idea behind "everything happens for a reason" comes from. (Now watch femto research this just to prove me wrong ).

If I had to talk to one of those starving kids, or some relative of a WTC victim what do you think I would tell them? I'd tell them about Jesus, god, Allah, Buddha, any religious figure. I'd tell them that this is happening for a reason. You know why? Cause it'd give them fucking hope. I dare you to go tell them that "sorry kid. You got fucked in life, there’s no master plan, you are just plain fucked." I doubt a starving kid will have much of a future here on earth, so why throw that in their face. I'd tell them that they suffer, but god is compassionate, and when it is their time to leave this earth, if they believe in god (or whoever), they will be able to go to heaven and find bliss for eternity.

"Everything happens for a reason" is all about hope. There may be no god and everything may just happen because humanity is a bitch and shit happen. But people need to hope (at least the average person which you aren’t femto ), and this is one way to give them that and give them the opportunity to at least think things will be better one day.
Femto wrote:
The truth is, "everything happens for a reason" is selfish thought, one that places yourself at the forefront of the world as the main evidence supporting it. Heck, I think that "don't worry, be happy" is a better way of dealing with shit that happens in life. At least you're not deluding yourself into thinking that everything that has been shitty in your life is OK, because it's really the master plan of what some great force has in store for you.


As for this, I just thought I would make sure that I've addressed it directly.

"Don’t worry, be happy" is a worse belief structure that "everything happens for a reason." "Oh hey, I’m starving to death...might as well not worry about that and be happy" or "I have to work 12 hours a day, pay the mortgage, try to get my gets through college, but why worry ill just be happy." there isn’t any real substance there. True I believe in that one shouldn’t worry about little shit, but its not going to get the average person through life because you do have to worry about stuff (though I try very little ).

Delusion is one of man's built in self-defenses, and it often doesn't do a person good (sounds like contradiction yes), but that is usually people denying that they've done something wrong. When shit happens to me, I believe it has happened for many different reasons. Like when I got drunk, smashed meter, got arrested. That even happened to me for a lot of VERY good reasons. Because I’m a good little white kid, I was able to get 2 felony charges dropped down to 1 misdemeanor a charge and 1 year of supervision and 2 years of probation. I was very lucky, and I think a lot of things I did in life, though I didn’t know it at the time, I did because 1) they effected me positively, and 2) they helped a lot on this case. Why did I decide to sponsor a child through Christians children fund? 1) Because I thought it was my duty as a person of privilege, but the selfish side (which I only thought up for you femto ) is because it ended up helping me as well, but I just think of that as a reward for my good action. (I started support my kid before I smashed the meters and not because it would help out my case btw).

Oh and in no way by saying ''everything happens in life for a reason" is saying that your life is OK. No fucking way in hell would I ever consider starving to death of dying slowly from AIDS is an OK life? I’m no Pangloss; this world could be a hell of a lot better. But, though this may sound a little weird, people who truly suffer are rewarded for their hardships I believe. Why does the beggar starve? What is the reason? Because the world is shit, that’s the reason. Because he has let his life slip away from him. It may be his fault, or some catastrophe may have taken it away from him. He got shitted on by life, but I'm done arguing for now. I have to reread this thing to make sure it makes some sense. So ill get started on that heh.

Obviously a fake story, if it burns her clit it burns your dick! In anycase, fake or not, damn hilarious.

stop going off topic :p heh

ok... been gone for a little bit and coming back to this thread was just great.

on topic: if it the story was true, she probably wouldn't be able to have normal sex or give birth ever again without some major fucking surgery.

totally random thought about homosexuals being a cause for extinction (refer to THIS post): if anyone was able to find a cause (hormonal, genetic, etc) for homosexuallity and wanted to wipe-out a group of people, create a weapon (chemical, biological, etc) to influence the cause strongly enough to turn everyone gay. next generation comes around and there wont be a next generation.

sorry, if that last comment totally freaked you out... i am tired and should be in bed.

OK, just because i haven't had a real good thought provoking discussion in a while I will try to reply to this and defend my belief.

Femto wrote:You can call me sexist if you want to.

SEXIST!

Femto wrote:I'm not saying that you're life has been beautiful or without problems, I'm sure you've had many, but the truth is, it's nothing compared to what happens in the real world.

Please tell me, what do you mean by it is nothing close to what happens in the real world?

Femto wrote: In fact, I could say that everything happens for a reason too, and I could probably make up some reasons to back that up, because my life, with a couple of bumps here and there, has also been pretty good. Anybody that posts in a place like this and says otherwise is a hypocrite, stupid or in dire need of help, plain and simple.

That's a pretty large assumption.

Femto wrote: I dare you to tell some kid in South America that goes out to sell candy every day, only to give back what little money he earns to his parent, who will beat him up in return, that "everything happens for a reason." You may or may not have experienced something like this, but I have, and something like that can break a person.

Maybe it has made you a better man? It's horrible if that has happened to you, but I bet that it has instilled some compassion in you for others in the same situation.

Femto wrote:You can say that "everything is good" and "everything has a purpose" because you've had a good life, as I'm sure your friends that believe in the same bullshit have.

I suppose it depends. I'm sure that everyone has suffered some in there life.... more than others. You can count the bad things that have happened to you, or you can count your blessings. The choice is really yours.

Femto wrote:The truth is, "everything happens for a reason" is selfish thought, one that places yourself at the forefront of the world as the main evidence supporting it. Heck, I think that "don't worry, be happy" is a better way of dealing with shit that happens in life. At least you're not deluding yourself into thinking that everything that has been shitty in your life is OK, because it's really the master plan of what some great force has in store for you.

Well, the best evidence is something that YOU personally have experienced, or dealt with. Saying "things happen for a reason," can also be thought of as looking for hope in the future. For example..... your girlfriend dumps you. It wasn't meant to be.... It happened for a reason and you'll find the one you love in the future. It might sound corny, but if you have no hope in life then what are you living for?

Femto wrote:If you think of replying with something that has to do with god to this, then you might as well stop right there. I don't believe in that and I don't consider it a valid argument.

That's a pretty unfair statement in an argument... I'm trying my best not to bring in god because religious debates go nowhere, but that is like saying reply to me, but don't use any logical thinking in your post next time.

As for me, I guess yeah, you could say my life is good. I've had plenty of not so good experiences. Some maybe similar to what you listed... others beyond. These are were my basis is founded. As for people who die, who knows what good came out of there life. I wouldn't say that they died because they just got shit on in life... Maybe there death caused an impact somewhere else. Well its 5:30 in the morning, next time ill try to post with some brain power.

MrFelony wrote:The English language is flexible, so i say fuck the dictionary. by making "gargantuan" into a noun is how languages evolve. so one day his usage of the word will be considered correct if others do it often enough. do you want ot be like the french and strictly regulate our language . actually i probably woudlnt be against that heh

[wyrm]

I will be the first to admit that I have a damn good life style. Though I have it made it life, I don’t see how my belief that things happen for a reason makes me selfish. I also think that god isn’t a bullshit argument. I think it’s near impossible to have this argument without god in the picture. The whole basis behind the statement itself is god. People NEED justification in life for all the shit that happens to them. A starving kid in Africa, china, Colombia, or even the United States needs some sort of hope or belief that they aren’t just starving in vain. That’s where the whole idea behind "everything happens for a reason" comes from. (Now watch femto research this just to prove me wrong ).

If I had to talk to one of those starving kids, or some relative of a WTC victim what do you think I would tell them? I'd tell them about Jesus, god, Allah, Buddha, any religious figure. I'd tell them that this is happening for a reason. You know why? Cause it'd give them fucking hope. I dare you to go tell them that "sorry kid. You got fucked in life, there’s no master plan, you are just plain fucked." I doubt a starving kid will have much of a future here on earth, so why throw that in their face. I'd tell them that they suffer, but god is compassionate, and when it is their time to leave this earth, if they believe in god (or whoever), they will be able to go to heaven and find bliss for eternity.

"Everything happens for a reason" is all about hope. There may be no god and everything may just happen because humanity is a bitch and shit happen. But people need to hope (at least the average person which you aren’t femto ), and this is one way to give them that and give them the opportunity to at least think things will be better one day.
Femto wrote:
The truth is, "everything happens for a reason" is selfish thought, one that places yourself at the forefront of the world as the main evidence supporting it. Heck, I think that "don't worry, be happy" is a better way of dealing with shit that happens in life. At least you're not deluding yourself into thinking that everything that has been shitty in your life is OK, because it's really the master plan of what some great force has in store for you.


As for this, I just thought I would make sure that I've addressed it directly.

"Don’t worry, be happy" is a worse belief structure that "everything happens for a reason." "Oh hey, I’m starving to death...might as well not worry about that and be happy" or "I have to work 12 hours a day, pay the mortgage, try to get my gets through college, but why worry ill just be happy." there isn’t any real substance there. True I believe in that one shouldn’t worry about little shit, but its not going to get the average person through life because you do have to worry about stuff (though I try very little ).

Delusion is one of man's built in self-defenses, and it often doesn't do a person good (sounds like contradiction yes), but that is usually people denying that they've done something wrong. When shit happens to me, I believe it has happened for many different reasons. Like when I got drunk, smashed meter, got arrested. That even happened to me for a lot of VERY good reasons. Because I’m a good little white kid, I was able to get 2 felony charges dropped down to 1 misdemeanor a charge and 1 year of supervision and 2 years of probation. I was very lucky, and I think a lot of things I did in life, though I didn’t know it at the time, I did because 1) they effected me positively, and 2) they helped a lot on this case. Why did I decide to sponsor a child through Christians children fund? 1) Because I thought it was my duty as a person of privilege, but the selfish side (which I only thought up for you femto ) is because it ended up helping me as well, but I just think of that as a reward for my good action. (I started support my kid before I smashed the meters and not because it would help out my case btw).

Oh and in no way by saying ''everything happens in life for a reason" is saying that your life is OK. No fucking way in hell would I ever consider starving to death of dying slowly from AIDS is an OK life? I’m no Pangloss; this world could be a hell of a lot better. But, though this may sound a little weird, people who truly suffer are rewarded for their hardships I believe. Why does the beggar starve? What is the reason? Because the world is shit, that’s the reason. Because he has let his life slip away from him. It may be his fault, or some catastrophe may have taken it away from him. He got shitted on by life, but I'm done arguing for now. I have to reread this thing to make sure it makes some sense. So ill get started on that heh .

[/wyrm]

You do realize that if you hadn't put the [wyrm]-tags I may actually have read all that?

This thread has just turned ghey all of a sudden.

Time to liven this thread up.

i bet a polar bear would be doing a dance closer to mine

Eldo wrote:This thread has just turned ghey all of a sudden.

No kidding!

so the new topic is wacky dances?

any motions for lock?

I think Femto's waiting for Starlore to reply, so not yet.

hey hey hey!

ur not takin my lock eldo!

Fighting for the lock and spamming more, as always.

dos.azn wrote:hey hey hey!

ur not takin my lock eldo!

Don't worry Dos, I have no plans on locking this thread.

Eldo wrote:This thread has just turned ghey all of a sudden.

ur ghey!!1

Seriously though, I don't understand how you can think that the one serious discussion we've in the last few weeks is "ghey." It's way better than all the fucking spam that goes around here anyway.

Locking this shit would be most stupid thing us m0ds could ever do. Just because most of the spammers are not willing to read through all these posts, doesn't mean that you should stop those that have a real motivation to voice their opinions from doing so. A lock is imposed upon dead and/or stupid threads and this one is far from either. Shit, MrFelony posted the most content heavy post in his life here, at least from the ones I've seen.

dos.azn wrote:what the hell, that dictionary lies!

Anyways, on to the comments. I won't quote any of the stuff because it'll get messy. I'll assume that you remember what you said in your previous posts. I apologize for any offensive comments again.

MrFelony: I used the word "deluding" for a reason and you've just proved my point. Sure, you can tell somebody that all the shit that's happened to them is for a greater good, but what good is that going to do them? It will not change a single damn thing. It will make them feel better maybe and, later, utterly disappointed when they realize that things didn't get any better and that there was no greater good. If you think that a good consolation to one of the cases I mentioned (which I'm sure is just the tip of the iceberg), then you are a fucking weak and selfish bastard.

Let's say it's for a kid with no money in South America. You'll tell him that everything happens for a reason and, that later in life, he'll realize why he had to live through those difficult times. You are just bullshitting the kid with kind words that give some sense to his life, but you are not willing to help with the resources he really needs. It's the easy way to make yourself feel better, knowing that you did something good, but you're just handing him empty words, words that'll ease the pain maybe, but not change things. You don't have to tell him that he was fucked in life but there's no need to give him false hope either. Give him what he really needs or don't bother with empty bullshit.

That's what this is all about, bullshit. If bullshit gives you hope, then good for you. I personally think that the world would be a better place when people leave useless things like religion (because aside from "hope" and "faith," all religions are full of shit) and lame beliefs like "everything happens for a reason" behind and start looking at the hard cold facts and doing something about them. Wouldn't all the fucking money that goes to churches and temples be better invested in the people that really need them? That's another matter entirely really, but I wanted to touch on that.

As for "don't worry, be happy," of course it has no substance. It's one of the most shallow sayings I've ever heard, but that's why I used it in comparison. At least with "be happy," you are trying to look at the good sides of all the shit that's happening (if any), instead of believing that all the crap that you are going through is just part of a greater good, i.e. bullshit.

Kêthêrîc:Fuck it, I'm going to have to quote you here:

Kêthêrîc wrote:

Femto wrote:I'm not saying that you're life has been beautiful or without problems, I'm sure you've had many, but the truth is, it's nothing compared to what happens in the real world.

Please tell me, what do you mean by it is nothing close to what happens in the real world?

The real world as in, not some dream world where we all watch anime and play video games with only a certain amount of responsability in studying or making ends meet. When I say the real world, I mean the people that are really struggling out there, that are really trying to fight against the odds and rarely come out on top. I'm not saying that we are all just lazy motherfuckers, I'm sure most of us spend more time with real life problems that with our hobbies (psi and Starnum come to mind), but I'd go out on limb and say that most of us do have certain priviliges over most of the people in the world.

Kêthêrîc wrote:

Femto wrote: In fact, I could say that everything happens for a reason too, and I could probably make up some reasons to back that up, because my life, with a couple of bumps here and there, has also been pretty good. Anybody that posts in a place like this and says otherwise is a hypocrite, stupid or in dire need of help, plain and simple.

That's a pretty large assumption.

Of course it's a large assumption. I'm talking about major things here and there is not definite truth in life so I have to generalize certain points. I've tried to make educated guesses here and, while they will obviously not work for each and every one of us, I'm pretty sure it's true for most of us. A lot of my comments are full of generalizations but, as I said, there is just no other way around that, unless you want me to waste 20+ pages describing every possible scenario.

Kêthêrîc wrote:

Femto wrote: I dare you to tell some kid in South America that goes out to sell candy every day, only to give back what little money he earns to his parent, who will beat him up in return, that "everything happens for a reason." You may or may not have experienced something like this, but I have, and something like that can break a person.

Maybe it has made you a better man? It's horrible if that has happened to you, but I bet that it has instilled some compassion in you for others in the same situation.

Definitely, I can pretty confidently say that seeing that has made me a better person. The problem is, this is not about me, it's about the kid. I refuse to believe that the only purpose in this kid's life was to make these kinds of situations feel a little closer to home. A kid like that might or might not end up in a good place, but if he doesn't (which I'm sure happens more often than not), then what was his reason for being here? Where's his "everything happens for a reason"?

Kêthêrîc wrote:

Femto wrote:You can say that "everything is good" and "everything has a purpose" because you've had a good life, as I'm sure your friends that believe in the same bullshit have.

I suppose it depends. I'm sure that everyone has suffered some in there life.... more than others. You can count the bad things that have happened to you, or you can count your blessings. The choice is really yours.

That's true, but the bad heavily outweighs the good sometimes. What then?

Kêthêrîc wrote:

Femto wrote:The truth is, "everything happens for a reason" is selfish thought, one that places yourself at the forefront of the world as the main evidence supporting it. Heck, I think that "don't worry, be happy" is a better way of dealing with shit that happens in life. At least you're not deluding yourself into thinking that everything that has been shitty in your life is OK, because it's really the master plan of what some great force has in store for you.

Well, the best evidence is something that YOU personally have experienced, or dealt with. Saying "things happen for a reason," can also be thought of as looking for hope in the future. For example..... your girlfriend dumps you. It wasn't meant to be.... It happened for a reason and you'll find the one you love in the future. It might sound corny, but if you have no hope in life then what are you living for?

I've already mentioned hope in my reply to Felony, so read that. It's not about hope in life or in believing that things will work out later for certain, as if it were some natural law. It's about facts and about doing something about them.

Kêthêrîc wrote:

Femto wrote:If you think of replying with something that has to do with god to this, then you might as well stop right there. I don't believe in that and I don't consider it a valid argument.

That's a pretty unfair statement in an argument... I'm trying my best not to bring in god because religious debates go nowhere, but that is like saying reply to me, but don't use any logical thinking in your post next time.

It's quite the opposite actually. It's more like saying, "reply to me, but use only real world facts as proof of your arguments, not religion lessons." Seriously, do you consider god and religion to be logical thinking?

shaddup, ur boring xP

dos.azn wrote:shaddup, ur boring xP

Sorry.

okay, well we arent really discussing how we would help them. well how would you femto? just because i tell them that all this happens for a reason doesnt mean that i wouldnt help try to change their situations. if you've looked at my dreams in that little thred of mine (:D), then you would know that once im making enough money, i plan to go to different areas of need and help out. sure i could go now (and that actually makes me consider that i dont have to wait until im rich), but i think it would be that much better if i could go there with a $10,000 check as well as helping build new facilities (though im almost useless in physical labor ).

Im just wondering what you are doing, or are going to do, for those people in need. i know you said it was close to you so i wont say you havent either directly suffered from it or helped someone who had.

as for the bullshitting, unles you are brutally realistic, im goign to say you are pretty much atheist or agnostic, or a different view of religion. Yes i may be "bullshitting" them, but it doesnt mean im not helping them. by telling them that what is happening to them is happening for a reason (i.e. a religios one), is just a part of how you help these people. I believe in making change for yourself, but also in accepting others when you need it. the way i would help those poor villages of children would be by buying them cattle that could provide food, clothing, or products such as milk/wool. or i would build them a school or hospital. help pay for medication and vaccines. i wouldnt just tell them that its all good, they are "getting shit on for a reason so just be hopeful til you die," and then leave. Im not doing it to make myself feel better, but try and relieve some ammount of pain that a meal couldnt do. the spiritual side of life can be much stronger than the physical. if one has a strong belief (in anything), it can outweigh many hardships they go through. even starvation. though ive yet ot test that myself . One last point. you cant always touch the whole iceburg. slowly over time you can chip away at the surface and get to the core, but that takes a long amount of time. and if over a period of time, change has not occured, its called keeping faith.

as i see it, all hardships that happen in life, are just tests to make us better people. some people have learning curves, where others have their tests written in a foreign language. either way, each test is an oportunity for that person to either better them selves worldy or spiritually, or just remain the same. thats one reason why i believe shit happens.

after reading your responses to keitheric.
you need a miracle my friend . then lets see about your logic . you cant rule out god in this discussion though. tell me why "everything happens for a reason ISNT based on religion. then i wont mention god further in this discussion. When man didnt know about sciences and only theorized about how the world worked, god was why things happened. yes as for worldly issues, we have discovered why earthquakes or tsunami's happen. but as for the large picture, such as social issues, besides saying "these children starve due to their lack of money and the countries poverty and blah blah blah," god is the only explanation. if you want my honest truth. that kid you saw starving, i believe you saw him starving for a reason. his starving is more of a consequence of the world, but if you really wanna get centric/selfish (:P), then he starved for that reason as well. but just to clarify, i believe that the reason why some things happen is obvious, where as others we will never know.

Just a quick response, I'm tired and I'll elaborate on this later.

First of all, I'm not saying I am going to help these people (I think too little of myself to even think I'd manage to do something like that), but I'm not the one that'd brainwash them into thinking that things will be better. The first thing towards improving the situation is to acknowledge what the problem is, and people that believe in this "everything happens for a reason" bullshit is not helping. What the hell is "spiritual help" going to do these people when they are fucking starving to death? I don't think spiritual help is what these kids are asking for.

Everything happens for reason doesn't necessarily have to do with god, it could be karma or enlightenment or some crap like that. It's spiritual, but that doesn't necessarily mean religion.

And I guess you'd call me an atheist but I don't like to be stereotyped into one or be given tags. Let's just say I don't believe in god or religion and that I'm not spiritual either. You actually proved my point in your post. People had no explanation to earthquakes or tsunamis, so they blamed them on some greater force. Now that we have a scientific explanation to them, the mere thought of thinking that it's completely god's doing is ridiculous. Why is it so hard to grasp that everything else in this world has reasonable explanations too? Why blame everything unknown on god, when there's still so much to discover? People are not looking at the big picture here and, again, I'm sorry if I offend someone, but I seriously think that everybody that believes in god is arguably slowing down progress in general. Discoveries don't come from the church, they come from science.

This ended up longer than expected, but meh.