Berserk Chapter: 285

Post by **Khelegond** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:21 pm

I think we can't have a great hero without a great villain. Griffith is proving himself a great and very three dimensional villain... and I find him fascinating. How he thinks nowadays? He still have that 'evil' mind, that evil way, or he's more like the old Griffith now?

Of course, I want the story to shift back to Gatts, but I can wait

Post by **EnglishJim** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:21 pm

nimrod wrote:meaning any apostle, emp and his soldier or any other astral linked wpn can do the job too?

That's were the Dragon Slayer comes in.

Post by **Istvan** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:32 pm

meaning any apostle, emp and his soldier or any other astral linked wpn can do the job too?

None of his Apostles would, and the emperors monster soldiers probably aren't deep enough in the astral world to do the job. Presumably a powerful astral weapon can do the job (hence the Dragon Slayer, as EnglishJim points out) but you still have to hit him with it, so in that respect it's less of a threat then the witch.

I think we can't have a great hero without a great villain. Griffith is proving himself a great and very three dimensional villain... and I find him fascinating.

I agree, I think Griffith makes an awesome villian, the story wouldn't be what it is without him.

Post by **Sandman** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:59 pm

Yes Griffith has got to be one of the greatest villians of all time, hands down, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. He is pure evil... although this act he is putting on is to the contrary he is still as evil as ever using people to obtain his goal (example: Char, once he marries her I would bet that he will lock her up or kill her once he has the chance) which makes him so evil that it makes me sick and I cant wait for Guts to slice his fucking throat... just thinking about it makes my mouth water

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Tue May 08, 2007 5:07 am

Xarfai wrote:This all feels great. When the Kushan are finally beaten and Griffith becomes King, the filler stuff will hopefully be at an end. As I said in the Newbie-Thread, the story disappointed me for quite a while, but now it feels like it will be focusing again finally.

With Griffith bright and heroic and guts becomming more and more the absolute warrior-monster, the manga is (hopefully) going back to the old story. Really, really hoping this.

Sorry, mate, but you're an idiot. This IS the old story, and never deviated from it even for a page. If you want anything else, why not read some old chapters again?

Post by **Xarfai** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:17 pm

Brainpiercing wrote:Sorry, mate, but you're an idiot. This IS the old story, and never deviated from it even for a page.

Your opinion. I must admit, yes, THIS is the old story, but a lot stuff before has not been, at least thats the way IÂ´m seeing it. Who wants to call me an idiot for that may go ahead, and we donÂ´t need to discuss it.

Sorry for the off-topic.

Post by **EnglishJim** » Tue May 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Sandman wrote:Yes Griffith has got to be one of the greatest villians of all time, hands down, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. He is pure evil... although this act he is putting on is to the contrary he is still as evil as ever using people to obtain his goal (example: Char, once he marries her I would bet that he will lock her up or kill her once he has the chance)

Nah, it would cause more trouble than it's worth. I'm sure Griffith could find some use for the Queen of Midland, even after he takes the throne. If Charlotte ever became a threat to his dream, however, then I have no doubt that Griffith would do what needs to be done. Right now though, I can't see her being anything more than a nuisance, killing her would just be plain unnecessary.

Post by **Istvan** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:08 am

Nah, it would cause more trouble than it's worth. I'm sure Griffith could find some use for the Queen of Midland, even after he takes the throne. If Charlotte ever became a threat to his dream, however, then I have no doubt that Griffith would do what needs to be done. Right now though, I can't see her being anything more than a nuisance, killing her would just be plain unnecessary.

I'm not actually so sure. The human Griffith, you'd certainly be right, he wouldn't have killed her. I'm not as sure about the Femto Griffith, because we don't really know how much the eclipse changed him. It is entirely possible that he is just acting nice to get a kingdom, and once he gets it he'll revert. Or, maybe he'll rule intelligently (ruthlessly, but intelligently), and so you'd be right, he wouldn't kill her. We'll have to wait and see.

Post by **Khelegond** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:39 pm

That is the thing. What Griffith is this? Is he more like Femto, evil to the bone? Or he's more like the old one, kinda cruel ("Do you think me cruel?"), but not exactly evil? Something between? More to evil, more to the old one?

I still haven't seen nothing that shows him as specifically evil. In the hill of the swords he could have killed Gatts. Or at least have him killed by Zodd. Why? Was the children's body?

I'm really curious as to how he'll rule...

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:43 pm

Well, I'll bet you that he's basically still the same Griffith. He's not like the other apostles. He's not like Femto anymore. Even IF his recent demeanor has been a pure strategy, that shows that he is still willing to go the way of least resistance - and greatest gain. A Griffith that has himself proclaimed by the pope and inaugurated by the nobles does not violently conquer a country and slaughter thousands of people (except Kushans). That's totally unnecessary.

This Griffith feels no regrets, no guilt, and certainly has no remorse. But to me that doesn't leave room for wanton cruelty, either.

Post by **Istvan** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:24 pm

Entirely possible. Or, then again, maybe he's just solidifying his position as king before he starts in on the cruelty and slaughter.

Post by **Sandman** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:32 pm

I think I said this in the throeies thread but Griffith will rule with his nice aditude then when everone is saying things cant get any better, boom Femto time... It will be interesting to see, but I think Guts will get Griffith before then.

Post by **Istvan** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:34 am

Would it be better (from our point of view, of what would be a cooler story) for Guts to kill Griffith while he's still loved, and so make everyone hate Guts, or would it be better if he does it after Griffith turns evil, and so be revered as a hero? Thoughts, anyone?

Post by **EnglishJim** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:39 am

Istvan wrote:Would it be better (from our point of view, of what would be a cooler story) for Guts to kill Griffith while he's still loved, and so make everyone hate Guts, or would it be better if he does it after Griffith turns evil, and so be revered as a hero? Thoughts, anyone?

Guts kills Griffith... that would be "The End". Or not. To be honest, I think Guts would find himself in an equally bad situation either way. Aside from the few that would truly know what Griffith caused (or would have), the masses would still see him as the saviour who liberated Midland. Even if Griffith brings the evil, should there be news of his death at the hands of the Black Swordsman, Guts would probably wind up with the blame for Midland's predicament and be hated anyway.

Post by **Khelegond** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:30 pm

It might be a gradual thing. Gatts won't simply get in and kill Griffith. I think he'll start killing his 'knights'. That way, Griffith is still a good guy, and Gatts is evil. Griffith could start being pretty evil, slowly, and in this time Gatts will be gradually 'cleaning up' his soldiers. People will start to change their minds about Griffith, slowly...

Nah, that doesn't seem logical...

Post by **Eldo** » Fri May 11, 2007 2:08 pm

Istvan wrote:Would it be better (from our point of view, of what would be a cooler story) for Guts to kill Griffith while he's still loved, and so make everyone hate Guts, or would it be better if he does it after Griffith turns evil, and so be revered as a hero? Thoughts, anyone?

I doubt that we will see the full ramifications of Guts' action if he manages to kill Femto.

However, if Guts somehow manages to force Femto to fight as an equal, then it would mean that Femto will be in his true form as a God hand. Maybe the people will lose confidence and love for Griffith once he exposes his true nature.

For me, I was never keen on Guts becoming a 'hero'. We were all attracted to Guts because he was completely badass, and was determined to do anything (evil or otherwise) to get the results he wanted. He's pretty much blurred the lines way too often to become a saint, but the result of his actions are always good ones in the end to the reader (killing apostles=good), despite the things he had done in-between.

Post by **EnglishJim** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:34 pm

Khelegond wrote:It might be a gradual thing. Gatts won't simply get in and kill Griffith. I think he'll start killing his 'knights'. That way, Griffith is still a good guy, and Gatts is evil. Griffith could start being pretty evil, slowly, and in this time Gatts will be gradually 'cleaning up' his soldiers. People will start to change their minds about Griffith, slowly...

It's possible. Then again, it might just have the opposite effect. Say Griffith brings Hell to Midland and reveals his true nature as Femto. Would the people truly believe that he who brought an end to the 100 year war with Tudor and freed Midland of Kushan invasion, is in fact a demon and the one responsible for the purgatory? And let's say that right around that time a certain Black Swordsman starts to kill off each of the Hawks (the liberation army, no less), and eventually Griffith, the saviour himself is killed. Even if the Hell ends with that, Guts would be seen as the one having brought it in the first place.

Post by **Sandman** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:45 pm

Gutts is like the ultimate scape-goat(?SP?) that sucks though because he doesnt deserve that kind of treatment

Anyway read some where that Miura and YA announced that the story will be shifting back to Guts and Co... but what I want to know is how long are they going to be on that boat?? I hope they are almost to elfheim already

Post by **Istvan** » Sat May 12, 2007 1:39 am

It's entirely possible that when we switch back to them (next chapter?) they'll be most of the way to Elfheim. Minor time jumps, when nothing was happening, aren't that odd. Unless something really interesting is happening on the boat (possible, but seems unlikely) I doubt they'll spend more then a chapter or two on it. Of course, maybe they'll have to stop somewhere else before reaching Elfheim, to take on supplies and the like, and then they get caught up in something else, so it's another five volumes till the journey continues (boy I hope not...).

Post by **Xarfai** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:48 am

I think the journey will go on for a bit, maybe theyÂ´ll reach it somewhere around the middle or early end of volume 33. Elfhelm is, in my opinion, meant to be far away, so I think some time has to go by to stress this a bit. Also, at least one fight is going to take place on the journey, maybe against a gigant sea-snake or, as Istvan said, in a little side-plot on land, maybe in a foreign country.

Also IÂ´d like to see the story to go on where it is now and not switch to Gatts to early. I think, this should be finished first (though, of course, IÂ´m a bit impatient already).

Post by **Orm** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:29 pm

A little impatient, arenÂ´t we?
The most shocking thing for me concerning this chapter was the ease with which I took this new break till the next chapter - whatÂ´s going on with me?

Perhaps itÂ´s because of the great ending of the current chapter - this last panel with those vatican soldiers in an eccstatic frenzy in view of their "divine saviour" - it summed everything up in such a perfect way, I was really stunned. Guess as long as Miura delivers such panels he can do with his time frame whatever he wants - IÂ´m surely not going to complain.

Post by **Istvan** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:21 am

Also IÂ´d like to see the story to go on where it is now and not switch to Gatts to early. I think, this should be finished first (though, of course, IÂ´m a bit impatient already).

I'm not really sure how much more there needs to be. Oh, it could easily go on for several more chapters, giving details on various things, but the most important steps have already occured. Since I get the impression that this city they're currently at is quite a ways away from the capital of Midland (Windhem? I think that's it's name), so it's probably a long journey to reach it. That being so, it makes sense to switch to Guts again for awhile as the armies march slowly across the world.

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:24 am

I would agree with whoever posted earlier, that it will switch after Griffith destroys Ganishka in the Midland capital. How many chapters that will take? Well, judging by the speed it has been moving, I'd say at least three or four, possibly even five or six, with the least time being spent on the actual fight. I don't suppose Ganishka can hold up long against his god hand lord. However, it might give us a chance to find out how Griffith himself will fight - hoping that he will do it himself and not let his demon generals do the dirty work.

Post by **Istvan** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:45 am

But given how slowly armies travel, especially compared to ships, and again mentioning that I think the capital of Midlands is quite a ways away, the final battle shouldn't occur for quite awhile. This also ignores practical concerns (it ought to take quite awhile to fully organize and integrate whatever forces choose to join him, arange for supplies, etc.) that would further delay things. So it would make a lot of sense for Guts to reach Elfheim well before the final battle between Griffith and the Emperor occurs.

Post by **EnglishJim** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:53 pm

I'm with Istvan on this. I don't think the Griffith-Ganishka final showdown will be happening any time soon. The last time the Hawks were at Windham, Locus fought Ganishka in a diversion while Griffith rescued Charlotte. Yep, a long time ago. Also, when you think about the travelling distance and the preparations, as well as Elfhelm (Guts' side of the story) and anything else that can occur along the way, it's going to be several volumes before they actually meet, in my opinion.

Sandman: You did mean that we'll be back with Guts in the next chapter, right?