berserk dumbest moments

[42ndEndOfTheWorld]

I know that starting a new thread here is considered to be nothing more than elaborate form of suicide, especially when it is about Berserk flaws, but what the hell, I'll give it a try.

We all respect Miura and regard him as storytelling genius, which he is, but even a genius like him makes mistakes. So in your opinion, what are the dumbest moments in Berserk, and how would you do it better?

well, let me start (I can almost feel modhand's eyes staring at me now) :

The scene from golden age, when Griffith leaves the castle after his one night stand with Charlotte. They got him surrounded and then he realized that he didn't have his sword (because Guts had smashed it a day before).

Some of you consider it ironic and funny, but to me it's just lazy: as a lord Griffith would certanly have as many swords as he wanted so that incident would not affect him (I know that this scene was probably intended to be symbolic or something, but oh, well), and I would love to see him kicking asses once. We never saw pre-eclipse Griffith fighting against multiple opponents, and although he is no Guts, I am sure that he was amazing. He just gave up without a fight. His eventual capture would have been much more interesting to read if he resisted a bit.

alright, that was me , now its someone's else turn, I guess. Please try to stick to scenes and events, not plot points or arcs. Some of us like Millennium Falcon arc, some don't but I don't want a flame here.

[TheDrizzit]

I always thought that was a dumb moment but only because Griffith snuck in her room and didn't just walk up to the King of Midland one day and ask to court his daughter.

He could have made it all poetic and the King would have kissed his ass like that.

Would have been easy as hell buuuuuuut whatever...guess that's why I don't make up stories. ^_^

[Istvan]

I think that you're missing the point of that scene. Griffith was fairly suicidal at that point (due to Guts leaving), and a large part of him both expected and wanted to be captured and killed. That's why he didn't resist at all. Does anyone really think that even without a sword Griffith couldn't have resisted fairly effectively if he wanted to? Heck, the best possible proof of how suicidal he was, and how much he expected what happened, is the way he ordered the Hawks to assemble on that field ahead of time. He knew what would happen, and some last remnent of responsibility in him caused him to make sure that they'd have a chance at survival. So having him passionately resist his capture would defeat the point of the entire scene.

[Sandman]

For one not resiting makes it look like you did nothing wrong second if you do resist you did something wrong... just think about it if you resist a cop your going to jail, if you run from a cop that just asks you a question your gulity of something... anyway you can chalk up all stupid moments in berserk (I cant think of any anyway) to fate

I guess there was the pirate part but even that had a point/points to it.

[MrFelony]

I doubt that the King would have given his daughter to Griffith that incest loving bastard

[dialdfordesi]

I think Istvan's right on with this one. Since Griffith had the behelit, he got whatever he wanted, but then Guts manages to beat him. This must have shaken Griffith to the core and disturbed him greatly. The impression I got was that he was dumbfounded and distressed by his defeat. The despair he went into probably put Griffith into that sort of mood where you saw screw it all. He then proceeded to have sex with Charlotte to make the feeling go away, but when he was caught he probably was still like screw it all. I don't know if you guys got that notion as well, because I'm always suspicious of the impressions I get from books...and I guess manga as well.

[Chaos_Wanderer]

After Griffith and the princess had sex, he had a pretty desperate look of insanity on his face. What do you suppose was running through his head? Did he realize the possibility of the consequences of his actions, or was he still unstable from the loss of Guts?

[Eldo]

Did he realize the possibility of the consequences of his actions, or was he still unstable from the loss of Guts?

Personally, I think it's the latter. It seemed like he was staring into space.

And I don't think it's a 'dumb' moment. It was critical to the story which led to his downfall. Because of Griffith's 'perfection', he couldn't handle the loss inflicted by Guts.

And Felony, to some extent, might be right. The King probably wouldn't have gave his daughter to Griffith, which meant he would have to hatch another plan, which may had been to kill the old bastard. Griffith already had killed the next in line to the throne, it would have all been dependent on Charlotte to carry on the kingdom.

[Istvan]

Or, since the king was getting pretty old, he might just have waited for him to die naturally, while strengthening his political position and keeping the princess in love with him. After the king died, she could have married him, and if he'd done his prep work right, most of the other nobles probably wouldn't have objected much. Especially since the ones who would have objected most had already been killed in the fire.

[travla]

Heck, the best possible proof of how suicidal he was, and how much he expected what happened, is the way he ordered the Hawks to assemble on that field ahead of time. He knew what would happen, and some last remnent of responsibility in him caused him to make sure that they'd have a chance at survival. So having him passionately resist his capture would defeat the point of the entire scene.

k first im pretty sure the king just sent a message with griffith's name on it asking the band of the hawk to gather so they could fall into is trap.

secondo-there's one thing that bothers me. when guts left,griffith did something dumb wich ultimatly led him to become a godhand.if you remember before he sacrificed everybody he said that guts was the one that obscured is dream and later we learn that everything is gouverned by fate.so what bothers me is, is guts the catalyst for all that hapenned? if he never met griffith would griffith have sacraficed everybody. griffith's mistake that led him to the godhand, was it is fate or guts's.

[Sandman]

Good one there Triv... but like I said before all was fated to happen so weather or not Guts made it happen is urrelavent Griffith would have still got his kingdom but because he chose the path he did, he needed the behelit to obtain his dreams.

Here is a what if senerio for you: Guts is dies before hiting maturity, Griffith still forms the Band of the Hawk and helps Midland and ends the war. Granted it takes longer for him to do so without Guts but it still happens. Then he starts to court Char and everything is playing into his hand until the King get jealous and tells Griffith he can not see his Daughter any more and gives Griffith a Baroness to marry instead. But Char has already fallen in love with Griffith. So Griffith goes to prison for sleeping with Char, gets rescued, Wald almost kills everyone of the hawks, Zodd kills Wald, Griffith finds his Behelit and boom same senerio without Guts.

But without Guts that story would be very gay... so the anwser is yes Griffith would still use the Behelit without Guts and Sacrifes everyone of the hawks rape Casca, making her a walking spirital enity until the rebirth where she probably would have died or something. and on and on and on... it is fate you cant stop fate... unless your name is Guts.

[KolaJ]

mm, and I thought this would be an interesting topic to read.
But instead of remembering unperfected moments everybody focuses on the first post.
Yes, I too think that was a good moment, but please do not discuss it here, or do it more briefly. Try to remember something else...
I think I could do this easy with any other show or book, but with Berserk I honestly am having trouble, It is my favorite after all...

A recent scene comes to mind , the one with Guts vs. Serpico and the pillars, the point was great if you think about it, but the way Guts , was hitting all those pillars... I like the dragonslayer too much to stand that! Could it be avoided, or at least the damage lessened to both the sword and the pillars, they are there for a reason you know, they hold something, and that something might fall .

Not really a dumb scene, but I can't remember any earlier once, maybe someone who reread berserk can remember more...

[EnglishJim]

Hey, remember when Caska fell off a cliff during the Golden Age because she was having her period? Yeah, that was pretty dumb... and totally sexist on Miura's part.

[Sandman]

The pillars scene was probably one of the most useless scene that I have seen good call. And the period induced fall was a pivotal point for Casca and Guts so I would say the reason was a little hard to believe but the scene it self is not dumb.

[Nosferatu Hamlet]

I personally wouldn't even consider those scenes for this topic but...
For me the most ridiculous scene is when Gattsu is fighting against the emperor-the whole chapter, it's just too much, Gattsu is not human any more, and the thunder strike and dragon slayer and the snake monster...
But most anoying is Gattsus fake hand-it's made of metal and he can still hold the sword and move his fake, metal fingers

[Sandman]

Well there immortal hamlet his mental hand is magnitized so its not like he can grab things that arent metal. As for letting things go there has got to be a release mechanizam for when he wants to let go of something.

As for Guts fighting the Snake monster and the Mist Emperor it was a good show of how far Guts can go in a battle, no matter what he is up against, no matter how hurt, or tired he is Guts will continue until you pierce his heart or crush his skull.

[Istvan]

But most anoying is Gattsus fake hand-it's made of metal and he can still hold the sword and move his fake, metal fingers

No, he can't. As Sandman mentioned, it has a magnet for metal things. I'm pretty sure it also has something (a button, or a lever, or maybe a plate, who knows?) that he can use to open or close it (so that he can wrap it around his sword) but other then that, no. If you notice, the fist is always closed whenever we see him use it. I challenge you to find a single scene where he can actually "move his fake, metal fingers", but I'll warn you in advance, there aren't any.

[lon3vvolf]

As for dumbest moments in the manga...
Any part with Puck in them for more than 1 page. I'm gonna start calling him Puke.

[EnglishJim]

As for dumbest moments in the manga...
Any part with Puck in them for more than 1 page. I'm gonna start calling him Puke.

Blasphemy!

No, he can't. As Sandman mentioned, it has a magnet for metal things. I'm pretty sure it also has something (a button, or a lever, or maybe a plate, who knows?) that he can use to open or close it (so that he can wrap it around his sword) but other then that, no. If you notice, the fist is always closed whenever we see him use it. I challenge you to find a single scene where he can actually "move his fake, metal fingers", but I'll warn you in advance, there aren't any.

Perhaps not, but I'd argue that when the Berserk's Armor takes control, Guts can indeed "move his fake, metal fingers". I've already brought that up in another thread, though this time I'm going a long way to prove a point...



Looks pretty convincing to me. Even if you don't believe it, you can see where people get the idea.

[Sandman]

You cant really count the Berserk Armor becuase it is super-natural... and I say so Plus he also gets back an eye so put that in your pipe and smoke it

[EnglishJim]

You cant really count the Berserk Armor becuase it is super-natural... and I say so Plus he also gets back an eye so put that in your pipe and smoke it

Does he really? I said the exact same thing (save the pipe/smoke bit) in another thread, and I'm sure someone disagreed... If I can find the damn thing, I'll post it. Anyways, nowhere in the manga is it stated that the armor can act as a substitute for missing body parts (at least, not that I can remember), even if it looks that way. All I'm saying is, you shouldn't be so sure.

[Nosferatu Hamlet]

Any part with Puck in them for more than 1 page. I'm gonna start calling him Puke.

How can you say that!? Puck is crucial, it just wouldn't be the same without him(I mean it would be too serious,and probably boring).

I challenge you to find a single scene where he can actually "move his fake, metal fingers", but I'll warn you in advance, there aren't any.

As for that look above...

But when I said that he is no longer human when he's fighting the sorcerer and the emperor, I meant his flying all over the place and jumping-of of things( he is more Superman than the usual monster-Gattsu).

[Sandman]

Well you went and did it made me resreach about the fake hand now I am going to share, remember you asked for it...



Here we go this is arm straight hand open



Arm bent grabbing



Arm flexed hand clinched



Arm 90 degrees and hand open, this is the one that bugged me, because I would have thought the the spring in the elbow would have closed the hand or something but there go that theory.



Now on to the Arm with berserk armor well now he can spread his fingers huh interesting


more spreading of the fingers



Now here is and interesting one oh cannon and fake hand popping out of the newly formed Berserk hand



and if you look close you can see the Berserk hand griping the Barrel of Grunbel's(?SAP?) Cannon while his fake hand dangles... its like he grew a new appendage to me

To conclude yes the hand movement without the berserk armor does some uncharacteristic things but most the time it is open and at his side, on the other hand (no pun intended ) With the berserk armor he can spread his fingers and call his fake hand out of his newly formed one. Thats it I rest on your face... i mean I rest my case

PS one other thing I noticed is that in berserk mode Guts fingers look like SK does now!!!!

[Istvan]

I mentioned before that I think he has away to cause it to be either open or closed (presumably with some pressure when closed, to allow him to grip things) so I don't see a problem with those pictures. Now, if you can find him, say, moving his fingers or opening and closing it, that will be hard to explain.

As for the Berserk Armor hand, given everything else the armor does, including "reinforcing" his body with metal spikes when he gets injured, I see no reason that it couldn't allow him to manipulate the metal gauntlet, even if not the hand itself. Likewise, I don't see why he couldn't have to gauntlet open up or something when he wanted to shoot the cannon. It's clear the armor is manipulated by his mind (to the extent that he has one when using it) so none of this seems much of a stretch to me.

[Sandman]

Damn and I was trying to prove someone wrong or change peoples lives with that research I knew we were on the same page but I need to make sure I guess.

Well anyway there was one pic that I didnt put up and it was of Guts fresh out of his berserk phase for the first and he still had his berserk gauntlets on I thought that was kind of wierd but anyway I have nothing else