Little known Berserk facts...

Post by **Libaax** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:33 am

Fate cant be so cruel that it allows Guts to escape death all the time cause it was meant to be. As many people in Berserk have said Guts is fighting against his fate. I dont think think that fate could kill him if it wanted i mean his time to die was long time ago but he never gives in.

Post by **NINJ4** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:49 am

well, according to the rules regarding the universe of Berserk - although Guts had it tough, it is still all within the design of Idea. It is not until he hops out of the lake that Guts is truly free and capable of going against fate. Keep in mind that if SK (who is free from fate) weren't there Guts WOULD have been fated to die, so again - takes one outside of the circle to change things (there was another reference to this as well referring to the requirement to change a fairy tale by someone outside of that tale).

Post by **Arresty** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:48 am

I wrote:Well one thing I have always wondered, is whether or not Guts is escaping fate. Maybe the Idea had Guts' fate set up for him to escape the whole time. He and Casca were necessary for the second eclipse to occur that brought Griffith, back. Maybe he was suppsosed to escape, and even though they believe he is escaping destiny he may really not be.

I know in the story SK said that he has escaped fate. SK is not hte idea, he is not all knowing. What I am trying to do here is get you to think outside the box. Though they say he has escaped fate and is no longer bound by it, what I am saying is think if maybe they were wrong. What if he was fated to escape. His fate could be to have lived. I don't think the second eclipse could have happened if he and Casca weren't there. Because htey were there they attracted all the evil to that location to devour all the sacrafices. Griffith was destined to be reborn so he coudl become king. Now doesn't it make sense that possibly Guts was destined to stay alive so he could be there at that movment to bring the evil so Griffith coudl be reborn. Also maybe Guts is still necessary for some later part of the Idea's plan. All I am saying is try to think outside the box. The argument, "Guts esaped fate cause SK said so" is not a valid arguement. SK could be wrong. There is nothing to say that because he was branded tha this fate had to end there. If the brand was really so definate a fate as death, don't you think it woudl just kill you being branded, and not need anything to chase after you to kill you. That is all I am saying. There is a chance that the fate of Guts including him escaping the eclipse and staying alive.

Post by **Starnum** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:11 am

Well, it’s an interesting theory Arresty; I’ll give you that. Also, let’s not forget that if Casca had died, then Griffith would have had no vessel. However, I think even if they had perished, Griffith would have found a way to come back. I’ll use this argument to support the fact that I seriously doubt that Griffith intentionally raped Casca to create a vessel, which has been discussed before. Still, it is indeed outside the box, so I like it.

As for SK being outside fate, I’m not so sure. I used to think the same thing, but what did he mean that time at Albion, when he said he couldn’t help Luca. It was after he had saved her, and she was headed back towards the city. Perhaps he was just speaking cryptically, as he always does, about something we don’t know about. SK is shrouded in so much mystery; it’s hard to say. He seems to act by some guidelines however, whether they are his own or not. Perhaps he’s under the jurisdiction of some other fate. It’s a stretch, but possibly a benevolent fate/god. Heh, just throwing some stuff out here for you.

As for how Griffith let SK get away with Gatts and Casca during the eclipse. I think he just gave up. Imagine you’re shooting at a very fast target, and you miss. By the time you prepare your second shot, it’s further away, still moving incredibly fast, and almost out of sight. That was my take anyway. I mean, SK is no slob by any means, and Femto was still pretty new to the scene. *Shrugs*

Post by **Arresty** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:49 am

I didn't even think abuot th vessel. But I am sure you are right Starnum that Griffith woudl have found some other way to come back. I think they were more or less there to make it easier.

Also I agree with you Starnum about SK not being out of fate. He does seem to follow rules and guidelines. He also seems to almost know what his fate is, and is just following it to the end. I think that is why he seems to follow certain rules. His mindset is almost, I am supposed to do this so I am going to do that. He is almost watching himself. I think that is also why he thinks Guts is so special, because Guts is not tied by fate anymore, atleast he does not appear to be.

Post by **Eldo** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:35 am

Yep. It seems everyone knew that the Eclipse was gonna occur. SK, Zodd, other apostles such as Roshinu and the Count (they were in a chapter where Rickert was alone in a forest...and SK shows up and scares them away) I believe that Guts exists outside of Idea's control, and the only way Idea could have manipulated his 'fate' or course of action is through other catalysts, like Casca and the band of the hawks. I believe since Guts' 'fate' cannot be directly controlled by Idea, Idea uses some other mechanisms to alter and attempt to shape his 'destiny'. Firstly, Guts was found amongst a pile of corpses; he defied destiny by surviving. So Idea crafted different stimulus for Guts, like Donavan's rape, fighting Casca, and eventually joining the hawks. I believe these mechanisms were weaved so that Guts was the 'key' to activating the Egg of the Emperor. He was used as a major catalyst for the birth of Femto; the main reason for Griffith's downfall was Guts. Maybe Idea's not 'perfect', and there are some loopholes that escape his grasp.

I don't know. I rambling on here. I'm tired, and I'm not even going to bother with putting in decent reasoning now, so feel free to disagree (which I bet a lot of people will). I see alot of loopholes in this theory...

Post by **Eldo** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:09 pm

Well, a friend of mine suggested this theory:

Every eclipse must have a sort of 'catalyst' or a 'key' to activate the 'festival'. For Gaiseric's era, it was Skull Knight (there was an eclipse in the tower of rebirth). For Griffith, it was Guts. Maybe Idea doesn't care for these 'keys' because they have already served their purpose - for initiating the eclipse and activating the crimson Behelit. After their use, they pose no threat to the God Hands since the probability of taking them down is less than 0.0001%. Of course, in order for Idea to influence the wearer of the behelit, it could not be a normal person to do the job. So Idea choose the likes of Skull Knight and Guts in order the initiate the chain of events which would eventually lead to the ecllipse. There is a probability that every Eclipse there were once people like Guts who were responsible for triggering the event - but they probably didn't find a method of fixating their soul to an armour or something like that.

Well, I'm just a translator for my friend's theory. I hope I get some of the points he mentioned.

Post by **NINJ4** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:58 pm

It's not just "SK says" it's also confirmed by Flora - who also said that Idea doesnt have an absolute grip either, but still when so many people in the story in "the position of knowing" say it - then I think Miura intended it to be that way.

It's kinda along the same line with the arguments about SK/Gaiseric and Mysterious Kid/Guts&Casca's kid. There is no clear scene in the manga that says "it is so" but we all understand it to be.

This however doesn't discount the oppisite possibility (but makes it really unlikely) - so yes Arresty, your right about that "just because sk says so" part isn't really "proof".

Post by **kvsari** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:05 pm

Very very interesting. Guts and Femto. SK and Void? SK seems to want to destroy void. Maybie he was sacrificed by whoever Viod was at his moment of weakness. Now, SK is to Void as Guts is to Femto. Then, will we run into the still living sacrifices of the other God Hand members? Freed from fate, struggling away?

Or maybie this is better posted in the stupid theories thread?

EDIT. I just remembered something. The first time Puck encounters SK, Puck mentions that he smells like fairies(or elves, I don't have the manga to confirm). This would be the retribution arc I think.

Post by **Arresty** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:31 am

Don't think SK was branded. He lives in the inbetween because he is neither dead nor living any more. But I don't think he was sacraficed. I think Void probably sacraficed SK kingdom so that is why SK is pissed, or something along those lines. But I am pretty sure SK is not branded, and still lives within the laws of fate. He looks at Guts as special because Guts escaped the eclipse and is living, I don't think he has seen that before himself.

These are just what I believe, if anyone has any proof to counter it let me know.

Post by **Starnum** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:27 am

Well, I'd rather not run circles around the mystery that is SK all over again, but of course we don't have any proof to counter with. We know not if SK was branded or not. We don't even know how he came to be in this undead state he is now in. Presumably it had something to do with the Berserker Armor, but how could he maintain his undeath? Anyway, let's not worry about it too much for now. We can discuss it in depth as soon as more information is given about his past, deal?

Post by **Libaax** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:45 pm

Didnt Flora or SK himself say that the beserker armor did something to SK if i remember right.

Soon we must know more about SK.

Post by **Arresty** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:05 pm

Libaax wrote:Didnt Flora or SK himself say that the beserker armor did something to SK if i remember right.

Soon we must know more about SK.

It was the armor that did it too him. I remember them having a conversation about that. Them being SK and Flora.

And to your second part SK will be a mystery till the end of the series, I am willing ot bet. When we find out more about his past, we coudl start making guesses on how many volumes he has left. Probably withing the alst few volumes that is for sure.

Post by **Buzkashi** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:15 am

When Silke is telling the story of the armor she said that the previous owner fought untill all of his bones where broken and all his blood seeped out of the armor. Now if Skullknight was the previous owner of this armor how can he be made of skeletans if all his bones were broken!?!?! Nah im just kidding i Believe his body is somewhat etherial.

Post by **NINJ4** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:05 am

SK says that the armour took away the senses (taste, color in vision, etc) and then somewhere around there it was implied that SK had donned the armor a long time ago.

As for SK - yah, feels like we can only be sure that he was Gaiseric. Can't really say much else about his composition other than he obviously isn't really human anymore (he did swallow a bunch of behilits and combined it with his sword inside his stomach - that is not humanly possible... or is it?)

Post by **Buzkashi** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:10 am

Maybe he got a lot of practice with deepthroating in the spirit realm prison?!?

Post by **NINJ4** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:35 am

to take something so obviously unserious and make it serious: Real people can (create the illusion of?) stick swords down their throats and stuff. I've even seen a guy swallow like rings and stuff down, then swallow a sword. When that guy pulled out the sword out of his mouth - wham! All the rings and stuff were on the sword!

Post by **Arresty** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:53 am

NINJ4 wrote:

to take something so obviously unserious and make it serious: Real people can (create the illusion of?) stick swords down their throats and stuff. I've even seen a guy swallow like rings and stuff down, then swallow a sword. When that guy pulled out the sword out of his mouth - wham! All the rings and stuff were on the sword!

I am pretty sure its not an illusion. If you notice they have there head completely cocked back. I believe it takes lots of training, and no gag reflex. But they just open up there throat and put it down there. Though I am assuming some people are illusionists as well, but their are people who I believe can really do it, could be wrong though, but I think I watched a special on it. Rings thing, I am not as sure about. Don't remember seeing that.

Post by **Eldo** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:51 am

Well, I woulda thought it was like Al in FMA...SK's soul is fixed onto the armour via magical means (Flora?)

I don't know. I'm just wondering if his horse is a bit of him

. He never gets off his damned horse...

Post by **Arresty** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:25 am

The horse is definitely not a normal horse. Maybe the berserker armor had some way of attaching to the horse when he was on it, and therefore it died with him, and now they are both undead like he is. Not saying he is permanently attached to it, but I also can't think of a time he was not on it.

Post by **Eldo** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:03 am

Maybe he found the horse in the realm of the dead? Anything's possible. Skull Knight did have some fairy scent on him (I think Puck mentioned about that in earlier volumes) so it's possible that the Elf King had something to do with him.

Post by **Arresty** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:34 am

Eldo wrote:Maybe he found the horse in the realm of the dead? Anything is possible. Skull Knight did have some fairy scent on him (I think Puck mentioned about that in earlier volumes) so it's possible that the Elf King had something to do with him.

He could smell like fairies because he is supernatural and not evil. It might just be the sent of good od from the spiritual realm. Since fairies are the only thing that is good that you ever see from the spirit realm, it is possibly that he just assumes that that sent is the sent of fairies. But who knows.

Horse I have no clue about though. Though it is a bad ass.

Post by **dos.azn** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:24 am

little known fact: gutts carries a big sword called the dragonslayer

come on, what kind of bullshit thread is this...

Post by **Buzkashi** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:34 am

Come on now Dos. You have to read the begining to understand. I mean there was facts about sexual postions and what not.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:42 am

dos.azn wrote:little known fact: gutts carries a big sword called the dragonslayer

come on, what kind of bullshit thread is this...

Don't belittle my thread goddammit!

Seriously though, the topic title was changed by the request of a couple of people. It was originally about something interesting I had found back in the 6th volume. Like Buzkashi said, read the first post, it's all there.