Little known Berserk facts...

Post by **kvsari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:58 pm

NINJ4 wrote:kvsari - if each of the Godhand rules certain domains like that (which does seem to be the case) I see what you see too.

Slan mentioned something about that when meeting Guts in the Qliphoth(I don't have the manga to verify the spelling). She said something along the lines of "they hang out in their oh so favourite sephirs(?)". I wonder what God Hand internal relations are like, with that juicy comment.

Post by **Arresty** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:13 pm

I am not sure what the God Hands relationships are like with eachother. If it is not all peachy we might have slan try to backstab some of the others with the help of Guts, who she loves so much.

And NINJ4 I know his whole life is governed by the laws of fate and that is what brought him there. What I was saying is there were two seperate Griffiths you woudl see throughout the whole Golden Age. One was the calculating, plotting, brilliant speaker griffith, that was destined to become a god hand, and then when he was around Guts alone, or whenever Guts was in trouble you see a different Griffith, who seems to care for a friend, who is willing to throw away his dream for that friend.

kvsari wrote:I enjoyed picking out familiar Apostles during the eclipse. Theres the slug, the snake guy, even the chick Apostle we first meet on reading Berserk.

Oh I enjoyed that two. I was looking forward to some later apostle fights where you may see more of them. You see the elf girl, hte slug count guy, the girl he sleeps with and teh snake guy. I am looking forward to later apostle battles where we may see other ones that we remember from the eclipse.

Post by **Starnum** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:27 pm

Hm, I think what Slann was talking about the last time she was around, was that normally the God Hand float around in the Abyss, in a disembodied state of nothingness. Much like simply being in hibernation. It’s a very dull existence, which is why she wanted to come pay a visit. It’s also another good reason for Griffith to return to the physical plane, besides resuming the path of his dream. As for the God Hand having different “realms” in which they govern, I don’t know if I’d go that far. Then again, it’s possible. Perhaps some mention will be made of it later.

Post by **kvsari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:51 pm

Starnum wrote:Hm, I think what Slann was talking about the last time she was around, was that normally the God Hand float around in the Abyss, in a disembodied state of nothingness. Much like simply being in hibernation.

Interesting, I remember that. Actually, that makes sense. Heightened emotion, an overwhelming desire caused a fake eclipse and the reincarnation of Griffith. An extreme amount of death and disease brought back Conrad(briefly). Lots of cultist sex spawned a phantom of Slan. Now, what do Ubik and Void react to? What will lull them from slumber?

Or do they slumber? If they are to manipulate destiny in some form my reasoning is that they are very much awake. Only heightened human activity(be it death, desire or sex) forcibly shifts them into reality briefly. They are tied to the flow of human emotions afterall(I think).

Post by **Femto** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:36 am

The Snake Baron is in the Eclipse? Awesome. I've never noticed. The only apostle that I recognized during the Eclipse, was that female apostle from the very first chapter.

As for Conrad, does anyone know exactly what chapter he appears in? I kinda remember something like that, but I'm not really sure. Isn't it when Foss (I think that's who it was) is on a boat on those lizard creatures start appearing?

Post by **NINJ4** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:59 am

It was right before that I think - cause that bearded/mustached dude went to visit some plague-stricken cities first before visiting the capitol.

Arresty: I guess you can break it up like that - I always thought that his multi-personality was just simply his personality (I think Casca or Judeau refferred to this somewhere too). I mean he would switch looks and all so fast from "Your dead" to "I'm a 10 year old!" to "Your future King" etc., but that was all him - and he has always been like that

Post by **Arresty** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:08 am

NINJ4 wrote:Arresty: I guess you can break it up like that - I always thought that his multi-personality was just simply his personality (I think Casca or Judeau refferred to this somewhere too). I mean he would switch looks and all so fast from "Your dead" to "I'm a 10 year old!" to "Your future King" etc., but that was all him - and he has always been like that

Well I wouldn't say it was multiple personality disorder, I was just more refering to it as him having multiple aspects of his peronality, just like what you were saying. Just one aspect didn't care about his dream. One part woudl throw away that dream for Guts. One aspect just completly forgets his dream while he is playing with Guts or joking around. That was what I was refering to.

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:15 am

We know now which aspect of him that rule in the realm of Griffith;)

I myself had problems seeing the several Griffiths since i didnt like him from the first time i saw him,his arrogant look when he first faught Guts made me not like him so you can only imagine what i did think of him after he killed all of his friend like they were nothing.

Post by **Arresty** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:46 am

I always liked Griffith, though he was arrogant. To me what I liked was he was a great leader. He was destined for greatness. Miura made that obvious throughout the Golden Years. I just liked his leadership skills and such. He was very calculated and ever single plan he made was alwasy successful, and unique suprising the enemy. He took everything into account. He was a great military leader. So I woudl say I always liked him in some ways. Don't like what he did to the BotH and I guess I don't care for Femto as much, but Griffith I liked.

Post by **NINJ4** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:56 am

I lliked Griff too - it was the ultimate story of the underdog, i mean he totaly snubbed the nobles. Which is why I totaly want to just refer to him as Femto now T-T

Post by **Arresty** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:16 am

Considering he is destined by God to become King I woudl not call him an underdog. Guts becomming king and kiling Griffith would be a true underdog story.

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:36 am

Didnt he start that bullshit about the white hawk,didnt people start dreaming of him before he came back as Griffith.

Post by **Arresty** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:42 am

Yes everyone in the world(i believe) had the dream about the white hawk. That is why the Kushan guy Guts fought back before the first ecplipse adn his huge friends were trying to find him. It had to do with the oracle telling them to find him and to kill him or something. Kinda forgot somewhat now. I actually have a feeling since htey have a similar goal there is a chance they may ally with Guts for the time being, though I know he hates Guts. That woudl make Guts and crew even more powerful.

But yes they did have the dream before the second eclipse.

Post by **Starnum** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:59 am

Actually, the prophecy that had motivated the Knights of the Holy Iron Chain had been around long before Griffith even existed. I’m sure it was all the scheming of Idea. If you remember, he’d had this planned from the beginning.

Post by **Arresty** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:17 am

Yeah I know. I was refering to the dream of the white hawk that everyone had before the second eclipse, that all the priests were saying was a sign of the coming of the white hawk to bring salvation to them all, but I htink that even was predicted in teh scriptures, which I agree were written, in a sense, by the Idea.

Post by **Starnum** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:51 am

Oh, I knew you were talking about the dream, which was indeed triggered by the ascension of Griffith. I just wanted to clarify the matter for any that weren't sure.

Post by **NINJ4** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:00 am

Well, that dream thing happened due to the behilit apostle's sacrifice of the world - the prophecy was probably way before that however.

As for Griffith being an underdog - he is because destiny isn't all that. If destiny is a determining factor in being an underdog, then in the world of Berserk, noone would be an underdog since everyone's destiny is controlled by the Idea of Evil

Post by **Dark_Zilo** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:07 am

NINJ4 wrote:Well, that dream thing happened due to the behilit apostle's sacrifice of the world - the prophecy was probably way before that however.

As for Griffith being an underdog - he is because destiny isn't all that. If destiny is a determining factor in being an underdog, then in the world of Berserk, noone would be an underdog since everyone's destiny is controlled by the Idea of Evil

but Guts escaped his "fate". every time that SK appears before Guts he calls him the Struggler doesn't he?
i don't think that Griffith is an underdog because of the simple fact that he was (before Guts leaving) the best in almost everything he did. just being a commoner doesn't imply that he is a underdog, at least i don't think so

Post by **NINJ4** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:04 am

Yes, Guts escaped the grip of fate by getting that brand on his neck. SK confirmed this and explains thats why he is no longer the reflection but the fish in the pond (or something like that)

As for the underdog story - Guts is the best at almost everything he did too - so by that same logic, would Guts fail to be the underdog? For me underdog is starting from rock bottom and climbing up regardless of what destiny has in store. Both Griffith and Guts started from rock bottom (although Guts did have it way worse) and both got up (Griffith achieved a bit more b4 Guts left) so both are underdog stories. Griffith could have finished his underdog story if he had refused the Godhand and through whatever method, acheive power again.

Post by **Starnum** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:12 am

NINJ4 wrote:Well, that dream thing happened due to the behilit apostle's sacrifice of the world - the prophecy was probably way before that however.

Right, that's what I meant.

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:07 pm

NINJ4 wrote:Yes, Guts escaped the grip of fate by getting that brand on his neck. SK confirmed this and explains thats why he is no longer the reflection but the fish in the pond (or something like that)

As for the underdog story - Guts is the best at almost everything he did too - so by that same logic, would Guts fail to be the underdog? For me underdog is starting from rock bottom and climbing up regardless of what destiny has in store. Both Griffith and Guts started from rock bottom (although Guts did have it way worse) and both got up (Griffith achieved a bit more b4 Guts left) so both are underdog stories. Griffith could have finished his underdog story if he had refused the Godhand and through whatever method, acheive power again.

Guts isnt perfect in everything cause he is only perfect in fighting he isnt good at everything else while the perfect one is Griffith who were almost as good as Guts as fighter and he was good at everything else also, a leader,smooth talker etc. he reminds me of Johan in Monster that he is too perfect .

Post by **Femto** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:52 pm

I was rereading the Eclipse, looking for those apostles, and I noticed something. Sorry if it has been discussed before.

Why does Griffith/Femto stop himself when he's about to attack Skull Knight as he's carrying Guts and Caska outside the tornado? He attacked SK just before that, so it's not like his powers failed him because he wasn't used to them like I originally thought. Does he want Guts alive? Or is there something I'm missing?

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:57 pm

He could be sure of his new powers that he doesnt fear Guts so he didnt care if he is alife or not.

Post by **Arresty** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:54 pm

Well one thing I have always wondered, is whether or not Guts is escaping fate. Maybe the Idea had Guts' fate set up for him to escape the whole time. He and Casca were necessary for the second eclipse to occur that brought Griffith, back. Maybe he was suppsosed to escape, and even though they believe he is escaping destiny he may really not be.

And Griffith had help. Him finding hte behelit woudl be like us winning hte lottery. Him getting that, removes him from underdog status. Guts, now on the otherhand, had nothing ever given to him. He was supposed to be killed at the eclipse, he is fighting his destiny. If anyone is an underdog I woudl say Guts is, but I don't feel the same about Griffith. Griffith was two perfect.

Post by **NINJ4** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:29 am

I wrote:Guts is the best at almost everything he did

Please note the "he did". We all seem to agree then that hes the best at fighting. What else did Guts do? Leadership - he was the leader of the Raiding party - to which he was also the "best". Strategy - you can't suvive on pure muscle with the type of life that Guts had, he's a thinker - don't deny it ^^! Talking - Guts normally let his sword do the talking, so talking wasn't something "he did", so this doesnt count

Buz: Griffith thought he was all that too prior to the eclipse, until he got whooped. So, being the typical evil guy that doesn't learn from mistakes - he is putting off Guts again.

Arresty: Guts escaped fate the moment SK took him out of that vortex. It is the "fish jumping out of the lake" thing (sorry if i got the words all jumbled around in that quote -_-)