Newbie Berserk Discussion Thread

[EnglishJim]

Don't be silly. If anything, maybe we should increase the number of such comments

Will Do

After all, corruption is good for the soul.

That it is.

We have a duty to corrupt as many innocents as possible, for their own good.

Yes, Sir!

Besides, anyone who can remain pure and uncorrupt after reading all of Berserk, and enjoy the series, deserves to be shot on general principle for setting a bad example.

Absolutely. Anyone who has made there way here through interest of Berserk has already embraced the power of the Dark Side .

[MrFelony]

skully is my nickname for skullkracker. and i should stop setting a bad example with meaningless posts lol

[Skullkracker]

how did I get into the act?

[MrFelony]

i was refering to how you were catching up in post count

[Istvan]

Istvan, I fear that more and more you post, more and more you are falling in darkness. It might seem to you that you are actually embracing it and bending it to serve your will, but you are wrong! Ultimately the darkness will consume you and you will find your personality devoured and body consumed by the Dark Lords of the Outer Realms.

I hate to break this to you, but I am one of those Dark Lords your talking about, as I think I've mentioned before. I'm not one of the poor fools who gets devoured, I'm one of the ones who do the devouring. And your worry simply shows you don't understand true, primordial Darkness. If the Darkness was going to consume me, it would have done so when first I invited it into myself to become a Lord of the Outer Darkness. One doesn't gain mastery of the Darkness by forcibly bending it to your will, for its power will always overmaster yours. One gains mastery by giving it no weakness or fragality to attack, by being able to totally accept it as it is, and by making it a part of yourself (which also means that you become a part of it). Thus your concerns are totally meaningless.

Do not underestimate the power of the light side!

This idea just shows your own ignorance. While the light may temporarily resist the Darkness, ultimately the Darkness always wins. No matter how bright it is, or how long it shines, any light will eventually flicker and die. Eventually, all light will fade and die. And when the last light dies, the Darkness will have achieved ultimate victory, and the Darkness will rule for all time. Trying to embrace the light is an exercise in futility, as your supporting the loosing side of the conflict, and nothing and no one can change that destiny. The Darkness shall ever consume the light. If you would be victorious and triumphant, then you should abandone the light and embrace the Darkness.

[Gattsblackfalcon]

LOL this 280 chapter long wait its starting to affect some people here .

[Skullkracker]

i was refering to how you were catching up in post count

that does seem to be eating you...

but alas, I'm far behind, and rather but

you have plenty of time till the spam duel starts

[Aeriel]

I hate to break this to you, but I am one of those Dark Lords your talking about, as I think I've mentioned before. I'm not one of the poor fools who gets devoured, I'm one of the ones who do the devouring.

Oh, yes, it seems that I have misread your words. Though that is not surprising, as you Dark Lords are known for your deceptions and word-plays.

And your worry simply shows you don't understand true, primordial Darkness. If the Darkness was going to consume me, it would have done so when first I invited it into myself to become a Lord of the Outer Darkness. One doesn't gain mastery of the Darkness by forcibly bending it to your will, for its power will always overmaster yours. One gains mastery by giving it no weakness or fragality to attack, by being able to totally accept it as it is, and by making it a part of yourself (which also means that you become a part of it). Thus your concerns are totally meaningless.

I have spent many a year learnig ways to fight the Darkness and keep it at bay, so I am very familiar with what it takes to become the Dark Lord. I am also very aware that in their arrogance, Dark Lords tend to forget that in the beginning they were merely mortals (though not humans, as you correctly pointed out), and no matter how vast powers they now wield, how strong is their control over life and death, it is ultimately they who serve the Darkness, not the other way around. The Darkness has a sentience. During all these billions of years it has developed a mind of its own, hidden in the magnetic fields of black holes that devour all light. The Darkness thinks. The Darkness knows you. Cross a line between servitude and ruling and it will consume you, no matter what you believe.
At the end, it is far better to fight the Darkness. To twist an old saying I have already used, better to serve in heaven than serve in hell.

This idea just shows your own ignorance. While the light may temporarily resist the Darkness, ultimately the Darkness always wins. No matter how bright it is, or how long it shines, any light will eventually flicker and die. Eventually, all light will fade and die. And when the last light dies, the Darkness will have achieved ultimate victory, and the Darkness will rule for all time. Trying to embrace the light is an exercise in futility, as your supporting the loosing side of the conflict, and nothing and no one can change that destiny. The Darkness shall ever consume the light. If you would be victorious and triumphant, then you should abandone the light and embrace the Darkness.

Alas, you are right, at least partially.

Let me tell you a story, which you may be already familiar with.
From darkness all began and in darkness all shall end. Pay attention to small letters. Primordial darkness was a womb for this universe, a neutral force. Light was not 'good' by default. It was just a state of existence. Stars - the source of light - were (and still are) just specks of dust in the sea of darkness, but there was no conflict between them. There was harmony. A balance.
It were the souls of the living that first used the darkness for corruption and evil, for both good and evil are just state of soul, something born from the minds of living. Only neutrality is inherent in the weave of existence. So, when those lost souls began controlling the darkness for their own goals, they corrupted it. They transformed the darkness into the Darkness. The balanced was tipped. The light was forced to defend itself. And although everything will return to the darkness, it is the mission of us who follow the 'path of light' to make an end to the rule of Dark Lords, and unmake the mind of the Darkness. Even though most of us don't believe that that goal can be achieved without a fight, there are always those few that hope to bring back the balance within the Dark Lords, and thus redeem them.

[42ndEndOfTheWorld]

Do you know what's far better than being a Dark Lord of primodal, inner and outher darkness?

Having a huge dick and using it often.

Here, I said that.

[Aeriel]

You know, it's not size that metters, it's techinique

Though I completely agree with the frequency part

[Starnum]

Yeah, I'm more of a warrior of light myself. Calling down holy power to banish the darkness, and all that. Heh, and I'm married, so I get to use my dick just about whenever I want. Thank the Lord for the holy sanctity of marriage, I guess.

[Istvan]

I have spent many a year learnig ways to fight the Darkness and keep it at bay, so I am very familiar with what it takes to become the Dark Lord. I am also very aware that in their arrogance, Dark Lords tend to forget that in the beginning they were merely mortals (though not humans, as you correctly pointed out), and no matter how vast powers they now wield, how strong is their control over life and death, it is ultimately they who serve the Darkness, not the other way around. The Darkness has a sentience. During all these billions of years it has developed a mind of its own, hidden in the magnetic fields of black holes that devour all light. The Darkness thinks. The Darkness knows you. Cross a line between servitude and ruling and it will consume you, no matter what you believe.
At the end, it is far better to fight the Darkness. To twist an old saying I have already used, better to serve in heaven than serve in hell.

Of course one cannot rule the Darkness. If you try it will destroy you. The ones you are familiar with are not Lords of the Outer Darkness, which is a far stronger and purer form then the Darkness you know. To try to master such Darkness is folly. And of course the Darkness has a mind. But what if, as one born to it, the things you wish are very similiar to what it wishes, and what if one is also an appropriate vessel, having no foolish weaknesses (such as love, etc.)? This would show one to be an appropriate vessel. I told you, I am as much a part of the Darkness as it is a part of me. To consume me would be little different then consuming itself, which the Darkness does not do. All Lords of the Outer Dark are different, of course, but we are all acceptable as facets of the Darkness, for the Darkness is infinite and thus has many forms. I embody one of those forms. Trying to "redeem" me is like trying to redeam the Darkness itself: an absurd impossibility.

Let me tell you a story, which you may be already familiar with.
From darkness all began and in darkness all shall end. Pay attention to small letters. Primordial darkness was a womb for this universe, a neutral force. Light was not 'good' by default. It was just a state of existence. Stars - the source of light - were (and still are) just specks of dust in the sea of darkness, but there was no conflict between them. There was harmony. A balance.
It were the souls of the living that first used the darkness for corruption and evil, for both good and evil are just state of soul, something born from the minds of living. Only neutrality is inherent in the weave of existence. So, when those lost souls began controlling the darkness for their own goals, they corrupted it. They transformed the darkness into the Darkness. The balanced was tipped. The light was forced to defend itself. And although everything will return to the darkness, it is the mission of us who follow the 'path of light' to make an end to the rule of Dark Lords, and unmake the mind of the Darkness. Even though most of us don't believe that that goal can be achieved without a fight, there are always those few that hope to bring back the balance within the Dark Lords, and thus redeem them.

Fool! You think you petty mortals shall ever unmake the mind of the Darkness?!! You face but a tiny fraction of its power, and the weaker fraction at that in your battles. You have no idea what power exists in the Outer Darkness. The light is ever limited, but the Darkness is infinite. It was not you humans who shaped the true mind of the Darkness, though you think so in your arrogance, but the minds of those of us who dwealt in it-and only in it. We are far beyond you, and yet the Darkness has magnified what we gave it untold trillions of times. It shall never be unmade, and at the End of Days, when it consumes all things, only it and those of us who have made ourselves a part of it shall remeain. You have already lost, and you don't even know it.

[MrFelony]

Do you know what's far better than being a Dark Lord of primodal, inner and outher darkness?

Having a huge dick and using it often.

Here, I said that.

i think i proclaimed you one of my favorite people on this forum...if i didnt i proclaim it now.

[Aeriel]

Heh, and I'm married, so I get to use my dick just about whenever I want.

Lucky you

But what if, as one born to it, the things you wish are very similiar to what it wishes, and what if one is also an appropriate vessel, having no foolish weaknesses (such as love, etc.)? This would show one to be an appropriate vessel. I told you, I am as much a part of the Darkness as it is a part of me. To consume me would be little different then consuming itself, which the Darkness does not do. All Lords of the Outer Dark are different, of course, but we are all acceptable as facets of the Darkness, for the Darkness is infinite and thus has many forms. I embody one of those forms.

Ah, could it be that you blinded yourself so much that I, a being of light, can perceive your situation clearer than you? Power brings corruption. Ultimate power brings ultimate corruption. In the end, everything a being of great power craves for is more power. But once a Dark Lord (or any other power-hungry creature) crosses that line, he becomes a liability for Darkness. A servant gone rouge. And then he is devoured by the Darkness. It is inevitable. How do you think you ascended to the ranks of Dark Lords of the Outer Realms? There were others before you! And when they fell, others yet again came to claim their places. And others after them. And others after them. And, eventually, you. But what they did not see is that they had a choice! They could have forsaken their destiny, turned from the Darkness, saved their lives, contributed to the Balance. You have that choice too.

Fool! You think you petty mortals shall ever unmake the mind of the Darkness?!! You face but a tiny fraction of its power, and the weaker fraction at that in your battles. You have no idea what power exists in the Outer Darkness. The light is ever limited, but the Darkness is infinite. It was not you humans who shaped the true mind of the Darkness, though you think so in your arrogance, but the minds of those of us who dwealt in it-and only in it. We are far beyond you, and yet the Darkness has magnified what we gave it untold trillions of times. It shall never be unmade, and at the End of Days, when it consumes all things, only it and those of us who have made ourselves a part of it shall remeain. You have already lost, and you don't even know it.

What you don't know you can't regret for, is that your philosophy? But as long as one lives one can learn. You have never felt the starlight on your flesh, never heard the music of nebulae, never witnessed the beauty of a protostar and so you cannot know what are the true boundaries of the power of the Darkness. You don't realize that the Light is as powerful as the Dark. But the Light has a different way of manifesting it's power. Light creates, Dark destroys. As the true blessing lies in creation, its diversity ans its glory, Light shall prevail, no matter what you believe in. The Dark can only copy what we do, twist it and corrupt it. And there lies the seed of its doom.

[Skullkracker]

just so that you guys know:
people who start writing long posts like that tend to get banned in a matter of days...

+1 take that MrF

[LordMune]

I call it the Phoeno-Wyrm syndrome. Phyrm for short.

[Istvan]

Ah, could it be that you blinded yourself so much that I, a being of light, can perceive your situation clearer than you? Power brings corruption. Ultimate power brings ultimate corruption.

That's actually false. Power simply reveals the true nature of individuals. A truly good person who gains power remains good. A truly evil person remains evil. The problem is that most people are not nearly as "good" as they would like to believe (or as they would like others to believe). As you give power and so remove restrictions, their true nature begins to emerge, remove all restricions (ultimate power) they become their most true self. For most people this is what others would call "evil". And so emerges the myth that power corrupts. Actually, it just reveals.

In the end, everything a being of great power craves for is more power. But once a Dark Lord (or any other power-hungry creature) crosses that line, he becomes a liability for Darkness. A servant gone rouge. And then he is devoured by the Darkness.

Incorrect. Because we are facets of the Darkness. The Darkness itself desires more power. Of course we ever seek more power, but as we accumulate power, so too does the Darkness through us, and so our quest for power helps and strengthens it. We do not become a liability, but a greater strength. Even if we conspire against each other for that power, still we serve it, since we are all facets of the Darkness. It is survival of the fitest on its most pure form. The best and most powerful and cunning aspects survive, and the weaker and flawed aspects are crushed. As this occurs, we help to shape the Darkness itself into a purer and more powerful form, so that it is ever strengthened. We are the way that the Darkness expresses and shapes itself, and so all we and it are bound in a symbioses.

It is inevitable. How do you think you ascended to the ranks of Dark Lords of the Outer Realms? There were others before you! And when they fell, others yet again came to claim their places. And others after them. And others after them. And, eventually, you. But what they did not see is that they had a choice! They could have forsaken their destiny, turned from the Darkness, saved their lives, contributed to the Balance. You have that choice too.

There were others before me. But I did not take their place. There is no limit to how many may be Lords of the Outer Darkness. If one wishes to be such, one must simply be able to take the primordial Darkness into oneself. It is not necessary to destroy one of the existing Lords. If one does well enough, there is no limit to how long one can survive. Some of the first Lords are still around, and are amoung the strongest of us. It depends solely on ones skill and power. Even if I die someday, so what? So too do those of the light. And it is almost certain that I shall see eons beyond counting more time then one of you puny light beings. Why should I sacrifice such time and power for the short, weak life of one of the Light? Those others you speak of were simply fools.

What you don't know you can't regret for, is that your philosophy? But as long as one lives one can learn. You have never felt the starlight on your flesh, never heard the music of nebulae, never witnessed the beauty of a protostar and so you cannot know what are the true boundaries of the power of the Darkness. You don't realize that the Light is as powerful as the Dark. But the Light has a different way of manifesting it's power. Light creates, Dark destroys. As the true blessing lies in creation, its diversity ans its glory, Light shall prevail, no matter what you believe in. The Dark can only copy what we do, twist it and corrupt it. And there lies the seed of its doom.

Just as you cannot know the true beauty of the Darkness. You haven't expierenced the unlimited Darkness of the void, or seen the inside of a Black Hole. You don't know the wonder of having your body bathed in Dark Energy, or the wonder that is Dark Matter. There is beauty in the Darkness too, for those who have the eyes to see and the mind to comprehend. You speak of creation and destruction. Do you not know that destruction is amoung the most beautiful of things? There is no higher form of beauty then to take something special, and crush it utterly, destroying it. The Light can never be the equal fo the Dark, for with every act of creation, it is diminished. Thus is its doom written. With every act of destruction, we are strengthened. There is nothing you can create that we cannot turn to our own use, and eventually there will be nothing you can create at all. And so our victory is inevitable.

just so that you guys know:
people who start writing long posts like that tend to get banned in a matter of days...

I'll stop at the first official censure, but I don't see why there would be one. It's not insulting anyone, and it's an effective way to entertain ourselves until the next chapter.

[IBERSERKUBERSERK]

Why isn't there a second season Berserk anime?!

Two weeks ago I got my hands one the legendary anime-series of Berserk (season 1...., of course). And since then I'm almost up to date with the latest manga-volume(s) (31/32).

!Isn't Berserk wonderful!

I won't really call myself a manga-graphic-novel-lover but when it comes to Berserk I will definitely make the exception. But of course even an hardcore-anime-fan as such as myself must recognize the great creative power and inspiration that manga, in general, is for anime.

But anywayszz....

Why is it so that still there isn't a second anime-derived season for Berserk made?!

Since this has to do with haunting for ghost of the past I would probably be less annoying if I would post this remark on the newby's part of the forum.

I think I have the answer....(and I really don't want to sound arrogant but I really think it's the reason, and probably U guys( who are reading the manga, that is), deep down inside, are thinking the same thing. If you've seen the anime and read the manga up till now)

The reason, I think, is.....:

that after episode 13 of the manga there simply has not been revealed enough of the total story by Miura to create an interesting anime without ending again with a heart-tearing cliffhanger, OR...- which is far much worse- again an open ending but one which isn't even 'that' interesting.

Because, think about it, Berserk is one of the best Manga's that has ever been created. A lot of people even call it the best! It has been called:''The Lord of the Rings' of Manga. If the story had been developed enough since the Great Eclipse there would not have been any hesitation to create a second season for berserk. After Miura really got started with Berserk around 1989, the powerful anime-producers had to wait 7 YEARS to receive enough of the story to create the beautiful anime-series which ends at the Eclipse.

People who have only the desire to watch the anime can't help but feel unsatisfied even though it was a great experience so far, but every person who read AND seen Berserk can but only acknowledge that the eclipse is a natural, and for any serious producer, the only part of the story so far which can be seen as an ending of some greater chapter within the total story. While reading the manga, everything after the great eclipse felt like it was a slow running up to some big climax which yet has to come to existence. Something like the great eclipse or even the ending of the story. What also gave me that feeling was the fact that everything that happened after the great eclipse only took some 2 / 3 years of the story. But from the beginning towards the great eclipse had to be something between 20 and 25 years.

This I came to understand while reading the manga and I think so long as I can hope that there certainly will come an ending to the story there will be a second season for Berserk. So long Miura keeps doing his thing, it's just a matter of time....according to my opinion.

[Istvan]

Sorry, the actual reason is that Miura saw the entire anime as basically a huge advertisement for his manga, and so he deliberately had there be an ending that would inspire people to desperately want to go out and read the manga in order to find out what happened. Also, for the sake of simplicity, many elements of the manga were cut out in the anime, since they weren't crucial to the plot of that one arc. But if there were to be a follow up season, those elements would become crucial, so it would basically be necessary to redo the entire first season, and no one wants to do that. Thus, it is believed that there will never be a second season of the anime.

[IBERSERKUBERSERK]

I do agree that there are some vital spots missed in the anime, like the introduction of puck/pak/pack and the skeleton horseman. And I must say, and you probably agree with that, that it was a reasonable step to skip puck in the anime since that would mean that they had to introduce a very important character only to never speak of him again since Puck is of course, a post-eclipse character and would only show his face in the first episode. A little less drastic, but for probably the same sort of reason they skipped the skeleton Horseman. But the skeleton horseman only plays a small scene in pre-eclipse Berserk. But really becomes important in the end of the eclipse-scene.

So if you would ask me, if I was an anime story-editor, how would you re-enter the story of Berserk? Well...I would probably begin the new season by replaying the key events of the eclipse scene and that's when I would introduce the Skeleton horseman. Since this is also his first really important action. Loosely speaking: end of that problem. Let's say that after the eclipse and the events short after that, I would probably follow up with the manga, to the point that Guts goes off to hunt for apostles, after that replay the Ugly-count-monster-scene. And somewhere at the beginning of that scene reintroduce Puck. Not to say that Puck met Guts in a different way, but rather that they met somewhere along the hunt for apostles. If we could make that believable I think that most of the problems are solved. Just following the manga would eventually bring Guts back to look for Caska and from that point the story could be following the manga rigorously

Of course you will still miss some scenes in the first season, like the childhood of Guts, the Midland-king going berserk, the far more interesting
black-dog-knight scene. But these are problems which belong to the first season of berserk and are not troublesome for a second season.

Point is: it's to much to say that they would have to redo the whole first season of berserk to successfully initiate a second season. They rather have to make some creative moves at the beginning of a second season.

With regards to the possibility that Miura would look at the anime as some grand commercial for his manga: yes, if he had some sense for economics, he would have, and of course he did. But the anime has become far much more then a commercial, It had become a true magnificent product on it self. Even he has to acknowledge that the anime makers did a great job in bringing his work to live. So why shouldn't they do the same thing with the rest of his story. He would only benefit from it. So from his perspective and the perspective of the powerful anime producers, it's common sense not to begin a second season at the moment simply because there isn't enough material produced by Miura.

Of course these are not facts but simply my opinion. But I tried to bring it as reasonable as possible. But if you could direct me to a link or something where Miura makes it clear that he is not interested in creating a second season, please tell me.

[psi29a]

Of course these are not facts but simply my opinion. But I tried to bring it as reasonable as possible. But if you could direct me to a link or something where Miura makes it clear that he is not interested in creating a second season, please tell me.

Could you direct us to a link or something where anyone official talks about there being an second season of the anime, please tell us.

[Istvan]

With regards to the possibility that Miura would look at the anime as some grand commercial for his manga: yes, if he had some sense for economics, he would have, and of course he did. But the anime has become far much more then a commercial, It had become a true magnificent product on it self. Even he has to acknowledge that the anime makers did a great job in bringing his work to live. So why shouldn't they do the same thing with the rest of his story. He would only benefit from it. So from his perspective and the perspective of the powerful anime producers, it's common sense not to begin a second season at the moment simply because there isn't enough material produced by Miura.

Actually, there's plenty of matieral. If you were willing to have a second cliffhanger, you could just go to the second eclipse, where Griffith's reborn, and stop there. But you're missing a lot of elements when you talk about what's missing, all of which are important. As examples (this is not all of them, just a few): Rickert survived, the introduction of the Kushan prince, the information about Gaiseric, and the line in the first episode where someone talked about Griffith being king. All of these are big problems, that would have to be dealt with. Conclusion: there isn't going to be a second season, and indications are that Miura doesn't even want one.

[EnglishJim]

The anime was what introduced me to the world of Berserk. It really is a great watch and it's very different from what we see in your typical anime - no big eyes, no strange-colored hair (save Griffith). Even the pallette, a mixture of browns, greys, blacks, is very unusual for an anime, but all that just makes the sea of blood stand out even more.

I remember the first time I saw the Eclipse, all the apostles showing up and annihilating the Hawks, the characters we had come to know and empathise with. The most powerful moment, however, was certainly the Femto assault on poor Caska. And as Guts struggled and hacked his own arm off with a blunt blade in a futile attempt at rescue. Then it ends...right there.

As much as I love the anime, it simply does not compare with it's source material and each time I see it, I see things I would change here and there. You do make some good points about the introduction of Skull Knight and Puck. To see Skull Knight, for the first time, shatter the eclipse and dice all the apostles would be awesome.

As for your question, you asked it, but you answered it yourself. The story hasn't developed enough to conclude a second season properly, but quite a lot of people would sooner see the first season remade. The anime left out to many important elements and they would have to be included in flashbacks or something.

It could happen, Hellsing is being remade right now because Hirano felt it differed to much from the manga. If there was enough of a demand for it in Japan when the story ended, it could go through. That'll be a long time from now though...

[IBERSERKUBERSERK]

I see you guys don't share my optimism.
That's a shame.
But hé... what's the point of a forum if everybody is always agreeing.

I am aware that there are more complications then the ones I mentioned earlier. Especially the one about the line in which Griffith is called king. But this discussion is not interesting if we keep talking about those losses in the anime. I still think those flaws can be repaired if neccassary in a second season. You think different...fine.

I can even say that I don't find it troubling at all if the makers of the anime took the liberty of telling the story a little different, BUT DEFINATELY NOT TOO MUCH. Even if the result is a little less. Let's call it artistic freedom. It makes us able to say the famous political correct line:
it's ok, but the book's better.

I don't know how you guys reacted when you saw the differences between the anime an the manga. But I like it that way. It keeps it a little exciting. You guys( me included) probably all saw the anime before the manga so that's a little different. But let's say that within hopefully 10 years ( at this rate) we will come to witness the end of the berserk tale.
And shortly after that a second season has come to existence what will probably have a mythical status by then. Would you guys really find the anime that interesting if it's 100% the same as the original work?

I think I don't. For sure most of the deviations of the anime from the manga aren't really cool. A little example of a variation that I did like was the personal torture expert of Griffith. Who at first was some sort of badass Quasimodo and was changed in the anime as a sophisticated and more realistic figure.

But that's all subjective talking. But I still have a remaining question: What are those indications that Miura is not interested in a a second season, you keep talking about? where did you get it or derived it from?

(p.s.: did you guys rated the anime at imdb.com. Perhaps it helps my dream become more realistic if more people do that. )

[psi29a]

But that's all subjective talking. But I still have a remaining question: What are those indications that Miura is not interested in a a second season, you keep talking about? where did you get it or derived it from?

Find us anything Miura has said that would indicate that he would do a 2nd season.