how racist is this shirt? + general racism discussion

[Ayanami]

That is fantastic that you guys don't think it is that big of a deal, but the shirt is still fucking racist. And yes, wearing a shirt stereotyping rednecks would be racist as well. All of those shirts are in just complete bad taste. Like Psi and Femto said, you are wearing them just to get a reaction and piss people off, that makes you a dick as far as I am concerned.

[Brainpiercing]

Its even more sad that people cant see the diffrence beteween jokes in a comedy program and a shirt like this. There is a reason why race jokes are on tv,movies instead out in the real world.

And that is exactly your mistake. Comedy and satire is NOT restricted to TV. People are allowed to make jokes by themselves. You will never be able to forbid them from doing so, unless you want to run a dictatorship.

I find it very deplorable that you've had to experience racism by yourself, but honestly, a joke is still a joke.

And yes, Ayanami, a shirt like that is about reaction. The appropriate reaction is a LAUGH.

I'm not even going on about the freedom of speech, I'm going on about the freedom of humour. Humour needs bad taste. Period.

[MrFelony]

have you ever told a racial or stereotypical joke or laughed at one? basically what the t-shirt is doing is telling a stereotypical joke through itself. it's funny to some but inappropriate in front of others.

[Starnum]

Is it a joke in bad taste, yes. Are most jokes in bad taste, yes. Would I wear it, no. Would I recommend someone where it, no. Do I believe that stereotype, no. As I've said, I know and grew up with many Native Americans. However, I still chuckled at it, because I didn't take it seriously. If anything, it's sad that someone would take that shirt seriously. I don't give a fuck what you say, it is obviously a joke. It's not like it says, "I hate Indians". Yeah, it's a racist joke, but it's still a joke. Hell, I didn't even say it was THAT funny. Just because something is obvious, doesn't mean there aren't still people out there who won't get it, or won't get upset about it. I'm not saying I really condone the shirt. Felony can go burn the damn thing for all I care.

Yeah, and I've never received any racism because I'm white, right?

[Ayanami]

And yes, Ayanami, a shirt like that is about reaction. The appropriate reaction is a LAUGH.

I'm not even going on about the freedom of speech, I'm going on about the freedom of humour. Humour needs bad taste. Period.

The appropriate reaction is to laugh if you are not Native American. So is it okay to dress up as Hitler for Halloween when there are Jews at your work or school? Ridiculous. Also, when you wear some thing like that, you seem more like you are endorsing racism like that than of telling a joke. You guys seem to put value on certain actions as more or less racist, which I do as well. Being a Utililitarianist myself. I think the shirt is more racist than telling some retarded joke because it has a permanent and physical aspect to it. A picture is worth a thousand words if you will. Hope I made some sense out of this.

[Brainpiercing]

I'm not exactly sure where that strong racism aspect you see is supposed to be coming from. I'm sure the native Americans who run casinos will laugh at that shirt. Perhaps they are not happy, but they are running the casinos and making loads of money. That's more than I can say about myself. I'm not against them running casinos, it's pure market regulation, IMHO gambling is like prostitution: Forbidding it only makes things worse. In this case, it makes things better for the Indians.

But perhaps explain to me again the actual slur behind that shirt. It can't really be "All Indians like to gamble", because that is so ridiculous. We all know who goes to those casinos.

And the Hitler costume, YES, that is something I wouldn't like people to do, but you see, there is no JOKE in a Hitler costume. Here the reaction is obviously not a laugh.

You see, IMHO the shirt associates native Americans with a minor vice, one that gives them good business, too. The Hitler costume associates the wearer with last century's worst mass murderer. Where is the joke there?

[Libaax]

Is it a joke in bad taste, yes. Are most jokes in bad taste, yes. Would I wear it, no. Would I recommend someone where it, no. Do I believe that stereotype, no. As I've said, I know and grew up with many Native Americans. However, I still chuckled at it, because I didn't take it seriously. If anything, it's sad that someone would take that shirt seriously. I don't give a fuck what you say, it is obviously a joke. It's not like it says, "I hate Indians". Yeah, it's a racist joke, but it's still a joke. Hell, I didn't even say it was THAT funny. Just because something is obvious, doesn't mean there aren't still people out there who won't get it, or won't get upset about it. I'm not saying I really condone the shirt. Felony can go burn the damn thing for all I care.

Yeah, and I've never received any racism because I'm white, right?

First i dont know what you are i only assumed you didnt get racism cause then you wouldnt think this t-shirt is funny.


I am glad i live in a country racism isnt funny.


I dont care if the shirt- was made to be funny, its very racist.




I am sure there are lots of reverse racism but i wouldnt know about that

[psi29a]

Prove to me (as I am native american) that the shirt is racist.

If anything it is a statement that the Native Americans have their own Sovereign Land, that the USA Government (state and federal) has _NO_ jurisdiction over.

As such, they can put up Casino on their land, in states where gambling is illegal. Hence, 'I love Gambling'.

[Deathbringer]

Prove to me (as I am native american) that the shirt is racist.

If anything it is a statement that the Native Americans have their own Sovereign Land, that the USA Government (state and federal) has _NO_ jurisdiction over.

As such, they can put up Casino on their land, in states where gambling is illegal. Hence, 'I love Gambling'.

Maybe it´s just me but i´m sure that pretty much everyone that checks that shirt out ain´t gonna see that message Psi.

[Ayanami]

I believe a Native American that still cling on to the old values would take offense to the shirt. While it is not as racist as some other shit I have seen, it is still creating a stereo type. The stereo type that Native Americans are greedy owners of Casinos.

I think you are over analyzing the shirt Psi. The shirt was probably made by some corporate scum to capitalize on the anger towards Native American owned casinos. No grand message, just trying to make a buck. Unless Mr. Felony got that at a Native American owned casino, if that is the case I guess I will just shut up.

[psi29a]

I find that amusing. Re-read my first post in this thread. The only reason why anyone would buy the shirt is to get a reaction. That is understood.

However, as a Cherokee, I don't find it to be racist. Now, I say again... what stereotype is the shirt in question enforcing? There has to be a reason, so explain it to us.

There was a great Simpsons' episode awhile back that showed Homer going to the Reservation to hit up a new Casino. The businessmen there (Native Americans) made the joke that: "haha, white man took away our land, we now take away all their money."

Laugh, it was fucking funny.

You know where that money is going? Back into the Reservation infrastructure. Not my fault the 'White Man' loves to gamble. (Yes, that last bit is a stereotype.)

[Sortep]

White middle class americans are the largest group of gamblers though.

[psi29a]

White middle class americans are the largest group of gamblers though.

So the shirt is somehow offensive to who again? Is white middle class america upset with Native American casinos? Seems a bit retarded to me.

BTW: for future reference, i'm not full blooded native american. I'm white as rice, I just happen to have dual citizenship.

[Albator]

Dual citizenship? Native americans have a distinct citizenship than US citizenship? Or did I miss a joke?

[psi29a]

Dual citizenship? Native americans have a distinct citizenship than US citizenship? Or did I miss a joke?

http://www.cherokee.org/home.aspx?secti ... aics3EYI0=

So today, what is the state of the Cherokee Nation? We have come a long way in rebuilding our government. Since 1970, we have understood ourselves to be citizens of a government that pre-existed the United States. We understand that we have dual citizenship with great pride and patriotism to both the Cherokee Nation and the United States. We have faced adversity, adapted and survived. We are now on the path to prosper and excel.

In 1901, the United States granted the citizens of the Cherokee Nation American citizenship. American Indians hold dual citizenship.

[Albator]

Yeah, I got intrigued and read a bit about it, I didn't realize that. I have an assload of questions now. I'll keep them out of this thread though.

[Ayanami]

I give up. I don't know what else to say.

I said in my post the stereo type I believe to be inforced here is that Native Americans are greedy Casino owners getting back at the white man.

I think the shirt feuls a contempt towards native americans and the casino thing. That is great that you feel that the native americans are just doing what they gots to do, I just feel the less educated may take some thing like that the wrong way.

Any way, that is my final thought about it. I got nothing else.

[psi29a]

I give up. I don't know what else to say.

I said in my post the stereo type I believe to be inforced here is that Native Americans are greedy Casino owners getting back at the white man.

I think the shirt feuls a contempt towards native americans and the casino thing. That is great that you feel that the native americans are just doing what they gots to do, I just feel the less educated may take some thing like that the wrong way.

Any way, that is my final thought about it. I got nothing else.

Now that you mention it, I can see the re-enforcement of stereotype, but only from a point of view where someone else blaming their own problems on others.

As you said at the top of this page, people buy shirts like these for the reactions. Are they racist? I guess so, but it isn't illegal.

[MrFelony]

boo i forgot to log in and it deleted the good post i made. so now i have to try and remember what i said....oh yes.

Anyanami, i agree with you that the shirt is racist because it is possibly furthering the idea that all indians/NA's can do is run casino's to earn money. however the intent of the shirt is one of love and appreciation for providing sites of gambling for those who love it and dont want to go all the way to las vegas. PS do you have to be 21 to gamble/drink on indian reservations?

[Gaiseric]

Racism and stereotypes are funny.

[Starnum]

I am glad i live in a country racism isnt funny.

There's no way I believe that. No matter where you go, you're going to find people who are racist, or people who know how to take a joke. I can chuckle at a joke like that because I'm not racist, and to me it's a ridiculous stereotype. Things that are ridiculous usually invoke a chuckle out of me, even if it's involuntary. Besides, saying you and your countrymen don't find racism funny has got to be bull. You've already admitted to liking Dave Chapelle. No one can deny that most of his jokes are based on stereotypes.

Actually, you know what? You're right, racism isn't funny. However, ridiculous stereotypical jokes usually are, and that's all that shirt is, just like nearly all of Chapelle's jokes. I don't like stereotyping either. However, a joke is a joke, and as long as it's not terribly malicious, I'll usually view as that, nothing more than a joke. *shrugs*

Like I said, I understand where you're coming from. Racism is horrible, and believing all people of one type fit their stereotype isn't much better. I don't really take that shirt seriously, but as I've said, I don't condone it either.

[Eldo]

I think the shirt is only funny if a Native American wears it.

I'm not too sure about what the joke means completely, but I only deduced it from reading some of the posts and watching some TV episodes that made references to it.

Personally, I have no love for racist jokes unless it's told by the individual who's of the race that it is being discriminatory against. I say a lot of Asian-stereotype jokes as well. I can say them in this forum and not get into shit because I am Asian and I have diplomatic immunity. But yeah, I don't know any funny ones to tell anyway.

Family Guy are the only ones who are allowed to make racist or stereotypical jokes.

EDIT: Oh right, French people are douchebags.

[Brainpiercing]

I can say them in this forum and not get into shit because I am Asian and I have diplomatic immunity.

You misunderstand your status. You get fool's immunity, if anything...

Oh, and... never trust a Chinese, he might EAT you. The Chinese eat anything, dead or alive.

[Eldo]

You misunderstand your status. You get fool's immunity, if anything...

Oh, and... never trust a Chinese, he might EAT you. The Chinese eat anything, dead or alive.

I'd be so angry with you if it wasn't so funny because it was true. But yeah, it's cooked. We don't eat it alive, like those Japanese savages. Or was that raw? Who knows.

Yeah, I was talking about the last part, not on the first part. Yeah. On the eat anything part. Yeah.

[Deathbringer]

Family Guy are the only ones who are allowed to make racist or stereotypical jokes.

Even asian people?