Berserk Chapter: 279

[Grahf]

Yeah I post sparingly nowadays.

Well Griffith he is just so um how do I say it. "Unknown" yet at the same time we know him. When I say that we know how smart he is. At the same time we knew the limit to his skills when he was human. So what can be said about Griffith when he was human? His one fatal flaw was his conscience.

He has lost that now and really whats going to stop him? I'm sorry I like Gatts but I don't see him stopping Griffith without help (luck).

ie Godhand, His kid (the body that Griffith took over), SK and YES CASKA. lol

[Silent Wayfarer]

but if Griffith fails to defeat the emperor, Silas would be in trouble. However, this battle could convince him to take sides with Griffith and the Neo band of the Hawk.

Its more of a question of "when" as opposed to "if".

Remember Griffith's stratagem was flawless prior to getting his godhood. Now combine that with his godhood and the hoard he has at his disposal I don't think anything can stop him. Except the other Godhand members.

Strangely enough, Griffith may not actually need any of his vaunted strategic skills when using the new, Apostle-crewed Band of the Hawk. The whole point of being a godly tactician is that you can win when you are outnumbered, outgunned, facing difficult terrain, etc.

Fact is, Griffith's men grossly outclass the opposition. Zodd cuts regular Kushani infantry to pieces. In human form. Grunbeld was holding off 3000 men by himself before he became an Apostle. Locus can one-shot elephant Pishacha and kill entire ranks of Kushani infantry when not transformed. Arvin and his bowmen can accurately take heads off at hundreds of yards. Sonia's medium powers basically mean Griffith has RTS-style awareness of the entire battlefield. And Griffith himself has only revealed a fraction of his powers (all he does is be unhittable and kill enemy generals in one hit while flying over their forces, and it's fairly obvious that he can do much more than that). These are just the heroes. It's plainly obvious that Apostles are harder, better, faster and stronger than regular troops. Wyald is a prime example. Now imagine an entire army full of guys like him.

It only gets worse once Griffith orders a mass Apostle morph.

When you can bring such awesome power to bear on your enemies, there is really little point in a strategy beyond "Kill Them All And Feed Them To The New Recruits". Most likely Griffith will bring his superior men to bear on the commanders, breaking their chain of command and their morale. Even Ganishuka can't run his entire army by himself, and if he goes Lightning God form... well, Griffith can simply crush him into nothingness with Femto Singularity God Hand.

That said, his tactical skills will definitely come into play if he decides to use the Midland soldiers to crush the Kushani, without resorting to the Hawks and risking exposure of their demonic natures, as some guy said earlier.

[Istvan]

Hehe his strategem was flawless until he boinked the princess hahahaha...seriously, he was so damn popular with the King, why didn't he go the aristocratic way and just court the girl? The King would have gladly done it and then he would have been lined up as next king anyways...ooooh well......

I'm almost certain that he had orriginally intended to court the Princess, slowly rising in the Kings favor, and eventually marry her with the Kings favor. But then Guts left him, shattering his entire world, and he went a little crazy. If you notice, however, he ordered the Hawks to assemble before going off to seduce the princess, so he almost certainly knew that he wasn't likely to get away with it, even at the time.

It only gets worse once Griffith orders a mass Apostle morph.

When you can bring such awesome power to bear on your enemies, there is really little point in a strategy beyond "Kill Them All And Feed Them To The New Recruits". Most likely Griffith will bring his superior men to bear on the commanders, breaking their chain of command and their morale. Even Ganishuka can't run his entire army by himself, and if he goes Lightning God form... well, Griffith can simply crush him into nothingness with Femto Singularity God Hand.

That said, his tactical skills will definitely come into play if he decides to use the Midland soldiers to crush the Kushani, without resorting to the Hawks and risking exposure of their demonic natures, as some guy said earlier.

I'd agree with their ability, but as Griffith wants to be a ruler, he probably isn't willing to order a mass Apostle morph, so they'll be fighting as humans. And against an army of that size, even giving the amazing abilities of his Apostles in human form, given the size of the enemy army, it may be difficult for him to win the battle, and it will almost certainly require the use of tactics. Also, bear in mind that the Emperor knows about Griffith and his army, and he's probably made some sort of plan to deal with it. I have no idea what that might be, but since he knows what his enemies are capable of, and he's fairly intelligent, he wouldn't be offering battle unless he thought he could win. He's almost certainly wrong, but I expect Griffith will have to demonstrate his amazing tactical genius before this is all over.

[azzydakiller]

man... you guys are really underestimating ganishka and the kushans...
first dont forget about their half-demon soldiers that while not as strong as an apostle their sheer number and ease of producing can easily stand their ground against them

second consider that only 1 of their elephant like demons are strong enough to challenge gutts without his berserker armor

thirdly you have to remember that ganishka has that magician (and maybe others like him) that are more than enough of a match to gutts even with his berserk armor at full strenght, and also remember that he can also summon
elemental creature.

while its obvious that griffith will win at the end... i doubt that it will be as simple as people think, hell if it was don't you think that griffith would have
taken the capital by now and killed ganishka instead of using a diversionary tactic and then sneak off with the princess?

[TheDrizzit]

Not to relive former glories that were existant before even I existed here on these boards...but why oh why don't people read the rules before posting their first post? ^_^ FLAME IT!!!!! or like berserk, have we lost our fires as well?

P.S. drunk as hell and just trying to make a point! ^_^

[MrFelony]

well i don't necesarrily disagree with him...it's gonna be tough for griffith and his apostles to win the fight, but i highly doubt he is going to lose it, especially since i think that they will just follow the same path as they have before and kill off ganishka and the commanders

[Eldo]

I agree with you that Ganshika and the Kushans are not to be underestimated, but they shouldn't be overcredited either. But I would like to reply to some points you made.

first dont forget about their half-demon soldiers that while not as strong as an apostle their sheer number and ease of producing can easily stand their ground against them

Zodd practically wiped out a whole army's worth of them. On his own. But then again, Zodd is one of the strongest apostles there. It's not really that easy to produce half demon soldiers as you think, they have to find women (slaves) and they die after producing one.

second consider that only 1 of their elephant like demons are strong enough to challenge gutts without his berserker armor

We haven't seen how strong they are, but if they're on par with whalelephants, then the Berserker armour should be able to take them. I'm pretty sure any apostle is strong enough to challenge Guts without his Berserker armour, so the elephants are no exception, but Guts always pulls through at the end. He has never been able to overwhelmingly defeat an apostle, he's usually losing first, and hit them when they least expect it.

thirdly you have to remember that ganishka has that magician (and maybe others like him) that are more than enough of a match to gutts even with his berserk armor at full strenght, and also remember that he can also summon
elemental creature.

I don't think the emperor is going to be in his thunder form any time soon...he seems to be worn out from his encounter with Guts. There are definitely other mages around, but are probably not on the battlefield because they're physically weak. Perhaps they are controlling the elephants, or the whalelephants earlier on.

while its obvious that griffith will win at the end... i doubt that it will be as simple as people think, hell if it was don't you think that griffith would have
taken the capital by now and killed ganishka instead of using a diversionary tactic and then sneak off with the princess?

Femto wants to win in human terms. He wants the public to adore him and crown him King, thus, this war is a bit of a performance for him. Nobody said it would be easy, but it's not as easy as that. That's my take on it. The easiest way to winning the publics' heart is to save their arses while in they're on fire.

This battle reminds me of a bit like Dolrey Castle with the pedophile duke guy, in terms of odds. Griffith managed to beat the so-called 'invincible army', with his small number of troops. Now that Griffith has his army of Apostles, it would be interesting to see how this fight turns out.

[Starnum]

Well said Eldo, well said.

[Istvan]

I think we should also bear in mind that the half-demon troops were almost entirely wiped out (the Kushan's even make a comment on this) so there aren't that many left to fight Griffith's Apostles.

[Grahf]

with all that being said Ganshika and the Kushans aren't the answer to the riddle that is Griffith.

A combined effort of Skull Knight and Gatts could only do but so much.

[42ndEndOfTheWorld]

Well I am not sure if Griffith is such a perfect bastard as he pretends to be. In showdown at The Hill Of Swods he was compelled to protect Casca because of child inside him. That's a huge potential crack in his fortress. Because of that child, he has emotions. I think that healing of Caska will be a huge event that will set many wheels in motion. I don't think that Casca is just crazy, I think that there is something deeper here... Maybe her spirit is trapped in some plane of existance or something. Maybe she'll be able to reveal some unexpected truth about GodHand when she gets better or something.

And remember my (now locked) thread about chaos theory. Guts is outside fate and he can do lots of things.

And Griffith wants his kingdom, right? I am not sure if this should be taken literaly, but let's assume for a moment that it is. So he gets his damn kingdom, and everybody think that he is a great good guy. But what's next? His apostole army is great for battle, but in times of peace they would probably start killing local population or something, thus assuring his eventual downfall.

I think that it would be pretty dumb if Griffith wins. I do not have a problem about charismatic bad dudes winnig, but he is so ridicilously strong, so his victory would just be boring.

[azzydakiller]

sorry if i came to this place without introducing myself first and i apologize if i broke a rule...

anyway thanks for your reply eldo... you gave a noob like me your time of the day... intead of simply flaming me.

anyway ill try to answer to you reply

Zodd practically wiped out a whole army's worth of them. On his own. But then again, Zodd is one of the strongest apostles there. It's not really that easy to produce half demon soldiers as you think, they have to find women (slaves) and they die after producing one.

yeah... but you have to consider that thanks to the war the kushans now dont have any shortages of female slaves.

e haven't seen how strong they are, but if they're on par with whalelephants, then the Berserker armour should be able to take them. I'm pretty sure any apostle is strong enough to challenge Guts without his Berserker armour, so the elephants are no exception, but Guts always pulls through at the end. He has never been able to overwhelmingly defeat an apostle, he's usually losing first, and hit them when they least expect it.

true...but you have to consider just how strong gutts really is....
when gutts first wore the berserker armor he tottaly owned the giant guy.

also when the first cerenmony began gutts managed to kill a number of apostles with only a horn, hell! gutts was more than a match for zodd even without the berserk armor.

I don't think the emperor is going to be in his thunder form any time soon...he seems to be worn out from his encounter with Guts. There are definitely other mages around, but are probably not on the battlefield because they're physically weak. Perhaps they are controlling the elephants, or the whalelephants earlier on.

well that mage that recently appeared was more then a match for gutts on his berserker armor, so its possible that ganishka has other mages of that same caliber.

Femto wants to win in human terms. He wants the public to adore him and crown him King, thus, this war is a bit of a performance for him. Nobody said it would be easy, but it's not as easy as that. That's my take on it. The easiest way to winning the publics' heart is to save their arses while in they're on fire.

This battle reminds me of a bit like Dolrey Castle with the pedophile duke guy, in terms of odds. Griffith managed to beat the so-called 'invincible army', with his small number of troops. Now that Griffith has his army of Apostles, it would be interesting to see how this fight turns out.

while i agree with most of what you said.... i dont think its just a PR campaign... i think griffith as a good tactician that he is knows that he needs a fairly large army to win

nonetheles i agree with your dolrey in thast while it as a tough battle... griffith in the end won...

[FightClub]

you're apologizing for breaking a rule while breaking a rule, you spell like a moron, and come off as a complete imbecile. welcome to mindwerks.

[MrFelony]

i think this upcoming battle will play out very similar to how doldry did. With the help of zodd, guts once again took out the strongest opponent of the enemy and now all that is left to do is for his casca like figure to take over the castle...whatever that may be. i'm guessin his elite assassins or apostles will kill ganishka

[Orm]

i think this upcoming battle will play out very similar to how doldry did. With the help of zodd, guts once again took out the strongest opponent of the enemy and now all that is left to do is for his casca like figure to take over the castle...

You really make it sound as if Guts was a chesspiece in Griffiths hand again ...

... i'm guessin his elite assassins or apostles will kill ganishka

Huh, i didn´t think about this possibility until now ... I always assumed Ganishka was here to stay a bit longer, as he is the only one who possibly could stand up against Griffith (perhaps). If the war against the Kushans was to end so quickly it would be downright bad for Griffith, as he has not reached a postition yet, that would ensure his true ambition (at least not without slaughtering all the nobles of his prospective kingdom).

About his tactical abilities I´m taken a bit aback after reading the last chapters. What would have happened to Zodd and all his flying apostles if not accidentically Guts had teamed up with his strongest follower??
Or did he know all - forsee everything? Perhaps the little girl Sonia is really the most powerfull member in the new band of the Hawk (turning even declared enemies into chesspieces ...).

[MrFelony]

Idea's got this all undercontrol. what if Zodd didnt watch the battle of doldry and wasn't there to lend Guts his sword? and Guts has and will always be Griffith's queen . Griffith can go ahead and whomp them now imo. he's got charlotte who is madly in love with him, and the backing of the pope and pretty much everyone else...so why not lol.

[Eldo]

anyway thanks for your reply eldo... you gave a noob like me your time of the day... intead of simply flaming me.

Heh, uh, heh, no problems, I guess.

yeah... but you have to consider that thanks to the war the kushans now dont have any shortages of female slaves.

Not precisely. The Kushans will have to attack villages in order to obtain female slaves, since on the battlefield there are mainly males than females fighting. As Istvan mentioned, the emperor implied that his demon army has been mostly exhausted. And I believe that the Kushans had already raided nearby villages in order to obtain the vast number of demons for the initial attack. It's not quite that simple to obtain female slaves nor is the process in creating these demons easy either. It doesn't mean that the Kushan has a seemingly limitless supply of female slaves.

true...but you have to consider just how strong gutts really is....
when gutts first wore the berserker armor he tottaly owned the giant guy.

also when the first cerenmony began gutts managed to kill a number of apostles with only a horn, hell! gutts was more than a match for zodd even without the berserk armor.

I think we've already established that Guts is insane once he dons the Berserk armour and is just about unstoppable. You mentioned that the elephants can be a match for Guts without his armour on. My point is, any apostle, whalelephant or whatever is just as much a threat as elephants are without the Berserker armour. Grunheld couldn't be defeated until Guts went berserk. Whalelephants made Guts go berserk (although he was in poor condition at the time). Guts was fighting equally with Zodd while Zodd was still in his human form, and not apostle.

Anyway, since we don't know the extent of power the elephant has, we can't compare it's power with apostles, so it's quite moot. What's kept Guts alive in battles and in the Eclipse is his persistence to survive and fight. Guts will find a way to defeat his enemy, with or without his armour. Guts could probably slice the elephants apart like he did to the whalelephant without going Berserk.

I do see your point about the elephants being formirable, and I agree with you they are pretty badass. But we don't know if the elephants are anything special, they haven't really stomped on anybody yet. I can only guess they are on the same level as whalelephants, but made more for land travel than sea. Perhaps there were some wording in your paragraph that made me rant on. But we are on the same page with this, definitely.

well that mage that recently appeared was more then a match for gutts on his berserker armor, so its possible that ganishka has other mages of that same caliber.

I'm not saying there aren't, but there probably aren't a lot of mages that are at the same level as the old man. Otherwise, Ganshika wouldn't send only one to do the job, I guess. It could be arrogance on Ganshika's side, thinking one mage would be enough, and I rightfully don't know. On the beach, there were a couple of mages controlling the whalelephants, and they don't seem to be on par with the old man at all. There are less generals than privates in the army, right? That's what I'm saying. From what we've seen so far, they have yet to make an appearance on the battlefield. They could have used magic to completely annihilate the front line, but instead they used archers shooting arrows.

while i agree with most of what you said.... i dont think its just a PR campaign... i think griffith as a good tactician that he is knows that he needs a fairly large army to win

nonetheles i agree with your dolrey in thast while it as a tough battle... griffith in the end won...

One of the (many) reasons I think is for his reputation. Griffith has contacted the pope, rescuing the Princess, etc, all for the sake of his public image. Now he has the support of the pope, a former princess of Midland on his side, what's to stop him from people viewing him as the 'hero and saviour' again? He'd be like Jesus, and people will worship him for it. That's exactly what he wants, adoration and worship, and they'd eventually crown him king.

Griffith is a good tactician to fight with whatever numbers he has on hand currently and pull a rabbit out of the hat. He did that with the Dolrey battle, where he had the assistance and resources of Midland's army, yet he chose to only use his own men, the band of the hawks. It just smells like deja vu to me.

You had some ideas in your post, but honestly, it was a bit poorly typed. I agree with you in most parts though.

[Istvan]

Not precisely. The Kushans will have to attack villages in order to obtain female slaves, since on the battlefield there are mainly males than females fighting. As Istvan mentioned, the emperor implied that his demon army has been mostly exhausted. And I believe that the Kushans had already raided nearby villages in order to obtain the vast number of demons for the initial attack. It's not quite that simple to obtain female slaves nor is the process in creating these demons easy either. It doesn't mean that the Kushan has a seemingly limitless supply of female slaves.

Added to this are the fact that if the Kushans want to rule over anything other then an empty wasteland, they have to leave most of the females alone. Otherwise there's little point in conquering the land. Besides, I wonder how long it takes for a half-demon to grow up. When they died the bodies apparently turned back into human corpses, so if they grow at a rate similiar to humans it'll be a long time before we see any of the ones birthed from captured slaves of the Midlands campaign.

I'm not saying there aren't, but there probably aren't a lot of mages that are at the same level as the old man. Otherwise, Ganshika wouldn't send only one to do the job, I guess. It could be arrogance on Ganshika's side, thinking one mage would be enough, and I rightfully don't know. On the beach, there were a couple of mages controlling the whalelephants, and they don't seem to be on par with the old man at all. There are less generals than privates in the army, right? That's what I'm saying. From what we've seen so far, they have yet to make an appearance on the battlefield. They could have used magic to completely annihilate the front line, but instead they used archers shooting arrows.

The impression I got from that man was that he was the highest ranked mage in Ganshika's army. And even he wasn't all that special except for the magical creature he had supporting him. So I suppose the real question isn't how many mages Ganshika has left, but how many amazingly powerful magical creatures he has to enslave to those mages and make them more impressive.

[azzydakiller]

you're apologizing for breaking a rule while breaking a rule, you spell like a moron, and come off as a complete imbecile. welcome to mindwerks.

Qh! why thank you fightclub for your warm welcome^^

Sorry if my spelling doesn't quite reach your standards. but you know, english is not my native language.

oh and you come off as a complete @$$hole BTW...

anyway...

you guys make a good point about the half-demon... but my point is that compared to the apostles they are a lot easier to make. Really i think griffith might just have a few hundred maybe a thousand at the most.

And he probably cant produce them as easily as the kushans.
While not at easy as i said before a kushan army can invade a normal size town and enslave maybe a thousand women. meaning that they could pruduce 1000 half demons by just enslaving a normal size town

Theres no doubt that a normal apostle is stronger than a half demon,
but just how strong are they really? Are they all just as strong Wilde (i think that was his name) or as strong as the pig apostle gutts faced when he fought for the first time with the dragonslayer?

about the elephants-demons i always thouth that they where the same as the whalelephants... maybe i was wrong, sorry....

About the magician, while i also beleive that he is the strongest one, its also possible that there might be a couple that are almost as strong as him. just like zodd is probably the strongest apostle on the hawks, there there are still a number of them who are almost as strong as him.

[Libaax]

with all that being said Ganshika and the Kushans aren't the answer to the riddle that is Griffith.

A combined effort of Skull Knight and Gatts could only do but so much.

If Guts and his strong allies like SK finds ways to beat his apostle army with Zodd and co,then even Griffith isnt impossible to kill. I mean even as God Hand he must have a weakness just like the apostles does. If he coulndt get hurt he woulndt need an army of apostles against Ganeska or Guts.

[FightClub]

you're apologizing for breaking a rule while breaking a rule, you spell like a moron, and come off as a complete imbecile. welcome to mindwerks.

Qh! why thank you fightclub for your warm welcome^^

Sorry if my spelling doesn't quite reach your standards. but you know, english is not my native language.

oh and you come off as a complete @$$hole BTW...

More languages than I know, you have my vote. As far as being an asshole, seems you catch on quickly enough.

[Eldo]

About his tactical abilities I´m taken a bit aback after reading the last chapters. What would have happened to Zodd and all his flying apostles if not accidentically Guts had teamed up with his strongest follower??
Or did he know all - forsee everything? Perhaps the little girl Sonia is really the most powerfull member in the new band of the Hawk (turning even declared enemies into chesspieces ...)

I don't think Griffith expected Ganshika there, otherwise he would have rearranged his tactics a bit. I doubt that he expected help from Guts to defeat the emperor.

As for Sonia, I don't think she could be the most powerful member...she has yet to display any offensive powers, and her powers of foretelling seems to be purely subconscious and don't have any control over it.

And he probably cant produce them as easily as the kushans.
While not at easy as i said before a kushan army can invade a normal size town and enslave maybe a thousand women. meaning that they could pruduce 1000 half demons by just enslaving a normal size town

Theres no doubt that a normal apostle is stronger than a half demon,
but just how strong are they really? Are they all just as strong Wilde (i think that was his name) or as strong as the pig apostle gutts faced when he fought for the first time with the dragonslayer?

I don't think a normal sized town or village has that large amount of numbers as you think. I think you could only expect those figures in major cities or something. If you read back to the part where Sonia was about to be enslaved by the Kushan, the proportion didn't exactly look like 1000 women. I can only imagine the amount of women in a village or town are in the same numbers as those captured by the trolls in the extermination arc. They took all the women there too.

Personally, I don't consider the pig apostle Guts first faced again exactly weak. If you read back in the earlier volumes and chapters, apostles usually get wasted by Guts with one or several blows with the Dragonslayer. Once the Dragonslayer hits, the apostle is toast. It's a matter of actually landing a hit with the Dragonslayer that matters, as most apostles don't give a chance for Guts to land a blow. The pig apostle got arrogant, and got hit by the Dragonslayer. Guts gets his arse handed to him, and then finally, the only damage he does the apostle is with one hit of the Dragonslayer, fatally wounding them.

We know that Guts could easily take down an army of those demonic creatures, and so could Serpico and Ishidoro. If I had to actually rate their power level, I'd say that they would be just better than trolls, but not anywhere approaching apostles level. I don't think Serpico can beat apostles as Guts could.

about the elephants-demons i always thouth that they where the same as the whalelephants... maybe i was wrong, sorry....

I read earlier volumes, and believe it or not, it seems that the elephants were seen in action in volume 27. The archer apostle managed to kill one with one shot of the arrow, the knight apostles seem to be able to repel them, and the emperor killed them with one shot of lightning. They are probably in the same power range as whalelephants.

About the magician, while i also beleive that he is the strongest one, its also possible that there might be a couple that are almost as strong as him. just like zodd is probably the strongest apostle on the hawks, there there are still a number of them who are almost as strong as him.

It is possible that there are a couple of other magicians in par with the old magus, but I doubt it's as numerous as any 2 digit number. It's probably less than my general analogy too.

However, I would have thought that the emperor would have employed all his strongest mages in his army to fight this war. He has bought all his resources (lesser mages, troops, etc) so why not his best men? And since we have only seen that old man, it doesn't seem illogical to presume that the old magus is the strongest magician, for now.

[azzydakiller]

More languages than I know, you have my vote. As far as being an asshole, seems you catch on quickly enough.

mehh... while its true that english is not my first language, i really just use it as an excuse for my sloppy typing

anyway sorry if i broke a rule. if you tell me what i did, ill try to not do it again.

And about you being an asshole, dont worry! Becouse in this world everyone is either an asshole, a pussy or a dick



@ eldo

Maybe i exagerated the figures... more like a few hundreds perhaps.

But if i remember right there where hundreds of trolls perhaps even a thousand of them,
most likely they had grown to so many becouse of attacking the nearby villages...

and that pig apostle aeemed pretty weak and died pretty easily IMO... who's to say that most of the normal apostles are roughly of the same strenght?

nonetheless i agree that an apostle is far stronger than a half-demon
but i beleive that their numbers make up for their short-comings

its true what you said about the elephant demons... but you have to consider that the archer apostle is probably one of their top apiostles generals,also i would consider the knight apostles their strongest soldiers and also remember that ganishka can fry anyone short of zodd or gutts with one shot.

about the magician yes in most likely there are perhaps very few that can compare to him and its very likely that his the only on ganishka's command but if ganishka has one or two magicians of that same level then considering that magician is at the same level as the stongest of the apostles then its posible that those magicians could give a challenge to zodd & co.

[Eldo]

azzydakiller, if you feel that your English ain't that great, feel free to use the spellcheck option. I know that English is not your native language, but it's a bit hard to read your post sometimes.

But if i remember right there where hundreds of trolls perhaps even a thousand of them,
most likely they had grown to so many becouse of attacking the nearby villages...

There were a fair amount of trolls because one woman could breed multiple baby trolls, whereas half demons' production rate is one demon per woman. I was drawing the troll situation as an analogy to how many women slaves the Kushan can have for a village, since the trolls kidnapped them as well.

and that pig apostle aeemed pretty weak and died pretty easily IMO... who's to say that most of the normal apostles are roughly of the same strenght?

nonetheless i agree that an apostle is far stronger than a half-demon
but i beleive that their numbers make up for their short-comings

While the pig apostle looked like a pushover, he probably wasn't entirely weak to defeat if he took more caution with the Dragonslayer like other apostles did. He got a bit arrogant, since the first sword Guts drew on him broke, he presumed the Dragonslayer would be the same as well. Yes, we have established an apostle hierachy, and like humans, there's bound to be someone stronger than another. Their powers aren't set to static levels. Nobody said that. I'm merely saying that the pig apostle probably wasn't as weak as people thought he would be or as it was made out to be.

My point is, if Guts or Serpico could take out an army of demons, so could the apostles. Also, from what I understand, the emperor is using apostles to breed half demons, and there is probably no way a half demon is stronger than an actual apostle, if the source of their power are apostles themselves.

its true what you said about the elephant demons... but you have to consider that the archer apostle is probably one of their top apiostles generals,also i would consider the knight apostles their strongest soldiers and also remember that ganishka can fry anyone short of zodd or gutts with one shot.

Which is why I rated the elephant in the same level as whalelephants. We are on the same page here. The only difference between them is one is at sea, the other one is on land. What I'm saying from before is that I was wrong to say that we haven't seen them in action, because we have in an earlier volume. Because we have, from what I described earlier on. From that, we can roughly access their usefullness and their power in battle.

about the magician yes in most likely there are perhaps very few that can compare to him and its very likely that his the only on ganishka's command but if ganishka has one or two magicians of that same level then considering that magician is at the same level as the stongest of the apostles then its posible that those magicians could give a challenge to zodd & co.

Not saying this is not feasible, because it could happen. We don't know everything about the Kushan empire forces, but we have seen most of the elites. I just found it a bit weird that they haven't really appeared or have made note of their existence yet. Not saying it's impossible, but there has been no indication that they are around, which is a bit troubling to build on.

[Orm]

About his tactical abilities I´m taken a bit aback after reading the last chapters. What would have happened to Zodd and all his flying apostles if not accidentically Guts had teamed up with his strongest follower??
Or did he know all - forsee everything? Perhaps the little girl Sonia is really the most powerfull member in the new band of the Hawk (turning even declared enemies into chesspieces ...)

I don't think Griffith expected Ganshika there, otherwise he would have rearranged his tactics a bit. I doubt that he expected help from Guts to defeat the emperor. ...

Ganishkas appearance wasn´t totaly unexpected, in the chapter with the flashback to Sonias prophecy for Zodd Griffiths apostle-knights state the possibility that Zodd might encounter Ganishka and (think it was Locus) warn him about the emperor. So surely Griffith must have had this in his reasoning too?
I too found it hard to believe, that Griffith might have expected help from Guts in this fight, the more I wondered, why he sent Zodd into such a battle without any means to strike the enemy.
... now, we always can assume that he had a plan B that we just didn´t learn about because of the unexpected collaboration between Guts and Zodd, but such assumptions are good for almost any plothole *shrugs*.

... As for Sonia, I don't think she could be the most powerful member...she has yet to display any offensive powers, and her powers of foretelling seems to be purely subconscious and don't have any control over it.
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I surely didn´t mean powerful in terms of personal offensive power. But when I think how she provided Zodd with the means to pull through this battle (that he surely would have lost) or imagine a possible strategy meeting where she tells Griffith to "just send his strongest ... so that things surely will work out for good(against Ganishka)" I really can see the possibility that this girl could be the most valuable "force" for Griffith. Subconscious or not, she heavily relies on her ability even in real time tactic decisions on the battlefield and it seems to work really fine for her. With such reliable tactic and strategic "advice" her power is more like maximising (sometimes even multiplying) her allies powers and possibilities.

While writing this, I have to think that all those assumptions, about the importance of a little girl for griffith, would have an ironic counterpart on Guts side; without heavily relying upon the little witch, Guts would probably not have achieved a thing in his fight against the mage and Ganishka. He had the power but the girl lended him the insight ... Guts and Griffith both guided by two little girls who actually know and like each other