Berserk Chapter: 269

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:17 pm

Yeah, I would be more inclined to say that the armour is constantly trying to take over, and that is why it looked so easy for Guts to go berserk.

Post by **Eldo** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:01 pm

I think he lost control to the armour in this chapter rather than activating it.

Post by **Istvan** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:28 pm

No, he definately activated it deliberately. If you remember, two chapters, agp, he was going to activate it, but Schierke stopped him and cast her spell instead. If you note, he set her down, then went into Berserk mode. It didn't just happen, and it didn't overwhelm him after he'd been fighting for a while, it seemed to be a planned event.

As for him controlling it... maybe. He was able to partly utilize it before (surpressing the pain of his wounds but not letting it take over) so I suppose it's possible. But since he clearly has a great deal of trouble controlling it even when it's not fully activated, I question how long he can maintain controll in this state (if he is in control, he might not be).

Post by **Eldo** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:35 pm

My opinion is like Mystic's, the armour constantly tries to take over, and Guts just gives in to it when he's weakened or overwhelmed with rage, or in tight situations like the last chapters. I guess that in a way, he did activate it by succumbing to the armour's control.

Post by **Starnum** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:59 pm

Hm, I don't know if its constantly trying to take over, as I haven't heard any definite facts on that. I'm more inclined to think that it takes hold when its in full form, thus when he puts the helmet up. So yeah, kind of like he activates it, and then from there it goes crazy. However, Mystic's idea is completely possible, so we'll just have to wait and see. If that were the case, then that would further support the probable outcome that he'll eventually be able to tap into the armor, and manage to have enough control over it to stop when he needs to. That would freaking rock.

Post by **Virtra** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:51 pm

Wow... just an amazing chapter. Maybe I'm off base here (a am a newb to these forums after all

), but it seems to me that there is no way that Schierke can come out of this "unscathed." If she comes back to consciousness, it would be hard to believe that she wouldn't take something back with her or that she wouldn't leave something behind. She may even become branded herself??? If that's the case, I don't think Gutts' ego could handle it... and then the proverbial shit would really hit the fan. I dunno; its just one of many possibilities. All I know is that I can't wait to read the next chapter! So thanks to everyone that is making it possible. You guys do great work!

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:00 pm

To clarify my thoughts a little, I don't literally mean that the armour is constantly trying to take over per se, but definitely whenever he has been in a battle it always tries to creep up on him (when there is no fighting going on, he is in a much more stable mindset and therefore more in control, so we never see the armour try to take over those times). What especially makes me think this way is the battle a couple of chapters ago in the city, when he was telling the armour to stay the hell back.

And even before he received the armour, he has always (since the Roshinu/children-elves arc) had a mind battle with his inner beast. It was the beast that almost made him rape (and likely kill) Casca way back right before they met up with Schierke for the first time. The battles with his armour is really more a continuation of the battle with the beast, only the beast seems to have a LOT more elbow room to put the pressure on Guts, especially in battles when he gets in his battle frenzy. The beast has been posing a problem for Guts for a while now, especially since the advent of the armour, and one of the main reasons Guts wants to go to Elfhelm is not only to possibly cure Casca, but I suspect it also has a lot to do with the fact that even if it doesn't work out, she should be safe over there, not just from demons and the like, but also from him. But that's just my own take on the whole thing, and there's always the possibility I'm reading too much into it.

Post by **Istvan** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:26 pm

In a lot of ways, the armor does seem to be an extension of his beast, or rather, the armor brings the beast to its full potential and then puts it in charge. Even before he got the armor, we saw signs of similiar phenomenon when the beast helped him in combat, like when Guts would ignore wounds/pain that should have killed him, and ignore any constraint except defeating his opponent by whatever method. So in one way the armor has definately made the beast stronger.

But what I find interesting (and sort of annoying/frustrating) is that in another way the armor has made the beast weaker, since Guts now fights against it much more. Before, he only fought the beast when it tried to make him do something he didn't want to do, and used it in combat, but now he tries to keep it surpressed all the time, since if he didn't the armor would take control. So the beast is stronger now, but Guts is also devoting a lot more effort to control it. The only problem I have with this is that it sometimes makes his battles more boring.

Post by **Libaax** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:37 am

I think its only takes over fully when Guts lets it when he needs it like in this chapter.

It trying to take over him woulndt work Guts is too strong mentally for to give in like he did the first time he used it.

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:03 am

Well, it was never a problem for Guts to let the beast give him strength, the main problem has always been for him to take control back when his goal is accomplished, and Guts has a pretty poor track record in this regard given that he almost annihilated his new friends (dare I say family?) the one time he was truly completely lost inside his beasts' rage. (The first time he donned the armour doesn't count in my book, since Schierke managed to find him before he really even glanced in their direction, whereas on the beach when he truly lost it, Guts was clearly about to kill them and Schierke couldn't do a damn thing about it, and not for lack of trying)

Guts never before lost himself to the extent that he did when he was on the beach. Before, he could always at least recognize his allies, even if he was an uncaring bastard in the worst of times. It's true, the battles are a lot more restricted now, but it makes sense to me, because I think that Guts is pretty anxious that the next time, he really will end up killing his own. To me, the armour has allowed the beast to take on a physical form, and that's the main reason why it is so dangerous. It's not the curse of the armour, but the overwhelming presence of the beast that Guts is really struggling with. Even more so because the beast is basically a creation of Guts', and it really only feeds off of a rage and lust for vengeance that Guts already fostered and unknowingly cultivated for years.

Post by **MournfulWoods** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:44 am

I certainly hope Guts is not going to master the armor too soon, because he's become such an unstoppable warmachine, he'd be godlike if he masters his beast side, I prefer to think he's in a continual struggle than to see him invincible. I don't know where the story with the armor is going but I like how he's not in perfect control.

I can't wait to see where this is going, with the skullknight who has the same kind of armor. Is Guts going to become like him ? I think we need more chapters about skullknight soon.

Post by **Quest** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:51 am

MournfulWoods wrote:I certainly hope Guts is not going to master the armor too soon, because he's become such an unstoppable warmachine, he'd be godlike if he masters his beast side, I prefer to think he's in a continual struggle than to see him invincible. I don't know where the story with the armor is going but I like how he's not in perfect control.

I can't wait to see where this is going, with the skullknight who has the same kind of armor. Is Guts going to become like him ? I think we need more chapters about skullknight soon.

i agree.
i think this will be a recurring theme throughout future issues. a man-verus-inner-beast situation... kinda like a quasi-jekyll-and-hyde.

also, we will be introduced to a new skullknight and gutts dynamic since skullknight has already been there done that.

edit: grammer

Post by **Eldo** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:39 am

Hm, I still think that the armour constantly tries to find a chance to overtake him, which is why he has to keep his emotions in check. It seems in times when Guts is experiencing anger, helplessness or fatique, the armour will come to possess him. Just my 2 cents on this.

Post by **Messatsu** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:08 pm

Hey do you guys remember why he was given that armor in the 1st place ?

Post by **Femto** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:50 pm

Messatsu wrote:Hey do you guys remember why he was given that armor in the 1st place ?

Yes we do.

Post by **Quest** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:10 pm

Messatsu wrote:Hey do you guys remember why he was given that armor in the 1st place ?

lol i had forgotten. made me go back and reread vol 26 again.
seems that it was just given to him for no apparent reason.
perhaps to stop the invasion of the forest?

=)

Post by **Foggy** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:02 pm

trolling for a while, finally registered

My 2cents on the armor is the same as above, it tries to take over when Guts gets into battle so he can activate it by simply stop fighting it. But, if his bloodlust/frenzy becomes too intense the armor just takes over and he cant prevent it.

I do think Guts will have to master the armor eventually, at least to a point where he can distinguish between allie and foe. Its not like mastering the armor will make his battles easier or more boring since Miura will probally have Guts taking on much harder people when he does master it, like Griffith's army. Remember when he stabbed the Dragon Knight in the forest it still shattered his arm in full Berserk mode. And that only cracked the Dragon Armor, it did no physical damage.

Also, anybody putting any importance into the fact Schierke is caught in Guts' right eye?

Post by **MournfulWoods** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:09 pm

Foggy wrote:Also, anybody putting any importance into the fact Schierke is caught in Guts' right eye?

You mean like, she's taking the place of this eye he lost in the eclipse ? She might be a «new eye» for Guts to keep in sight who's foe or friend ?

I think it's interesting that she's in the right eye, and not only «inside Gut's mind». Can't wait to see where it's going.

Post by **Istvan** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:26 pm

Wow. I hadn't even noticed that it was the right eye she was in. And I agree, it could definately end up proving significant. It will be interesting to see what Miura does with this.

Post by **evilester_me** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:51 am

This is totally off topic, but something just struck me. So way back when in volume 5 or something, Griffith goes into his monolouge about the one key who can defy all social classes and whatnot. well up until now I thought, well thats Griffith, duh. But maybe in the end it will really be Guts because he cheats fate so often and think about his new band: a nobel, a bodyguard/knight, a witch, a thief, and a lame peasant girl. They are from all different classes, so he defy's all social classes, or something like that.

And on topic, I think that the armor is definately always trying to gain hold of Guts but Guts is so insanely strong that he can fight it off no problem. But I'm really not liking the idea of the armor now because at this rate Guts is going to be torn to bits before he ever sees Griffith. Like have you noticed how tired he always looks and how mellow he is now compared to before the armor? I am really starting to miss the old firey Guts.

Post by **Sortep** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:16 am

Guts' insanity started leaving him before the armor... right after he reaquired caska really... in the trolls' den we got a glimpse of old guts... but i miss the non armor dependent guts... hopefully something happens where guts no longer uses the armor... hell.. give it to caska... at least it would make her useful

Post by **Khelegond** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:24 pm

I'm following the lines more along with Mystic. Gatts saw he was giving too much importance to killing Griffith, thus feeding his inner demon with rage. That's one good reason to go to the Elves place. He can think, and rest, and everything else. In the next two chapters we'll probably see some plot and character development, and no battles.

The armor has no mind, so I don't think it's trying to overtake him. I think the owner shapes and control the armor, but Gatts don't know how to do that yet. So, when he need it, it 'takes control'. Kind of like when you have an adrenalin surge. I think he might be able to control the armor, but for sure, that is in a far away moment.

I like the way berserk is these days. I like the new characters. They're not the Hawks, but they're good

Post by **Foggy** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:59 pm

We all know the elve place will be destroyed somehow

Post by **Skullkracker** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:13 pm

If nothing else comes up, then Farnaze's brother and the other fag will loot it

Post by **nimrod** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:19 pm

Foggy wrote:We all know the elve place will be destroyed somehow

Guts sleepwalking...