Jesus the Stoner?

Post by **LordMune** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:05 pm

I don't know jack about cannibus, but I think cannabis might be bad for you.

Post by **Killfile** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:17 pm

Ha ha... I can't spell. *whew* now that we got that out of our systems.....

Seriously, I'd challenge anyone to come up with just one verifiable example of someone who died from a THC overdose. They just don't exist. The lethal dose of the drug would require you to smoke something like an ACRE of pot in an hour.

Not even Chuck Norris could toke that.

As to the concept of Pot as the "gateway" drug - you have to ask yourself if that is a consequence of Pot as a drug, or Pot as an illegal drug. In other words, do people who smoke pot try other drugs because they're smoking pot, or because in order to smoke pot you have to be willing to take a very poorly controlled substance into your body in defiance of US law?

In a yet more uncomplicated form -- it's a chicken or the egg problem. I'd submit that people who are likely to use Heroin or Crack start with pot because it's easier to come by. Legalization won't change that.

The US has the largest portion of it's population behind bars of any industrial country. We're literally at the point where drug offenders are crowding violent offenders out of our prisons. At what point do we determine that this is simply not working anymore?

Be careful - I'll have to move this thread over to Current Events and Politics

Post by **Skullkracker** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:03 pm

a similar thing is on topic over here too:
that pot smokers are treated just like dealers...in terms of penalty of course

well then: change the law, but not THAT much

Post by **Buzkashi** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:34 am

Yea seriously. I dont think pot makes you stupid. Most of those retarded "stoners" you see were stupid to begin with. I know plenty of people that are just as smart if not smarter when there blazed. Shit some of my friends are crazy philosophical when there high.

Post by **Femto** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:40 am

Killfile is right, you just cannot die from a weed overdose. There are long term implications in doing it more than you should day after day, if I'm not mistaken, but it'll never be a direct cause for death. It just doesn't work that way.

And whoever thinks pot makes you stupid obviously hasn't tried any.

Alcohol makes you stupid, weed doesn't.

Post by **Buzkashi** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:42 am

Typically if you think someone died from pot, it was without a doubt laced with something else.

Post by **Sortep** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:52 am

if someone dies from pot... it's probably from eating too funky a concoction during a syndrome otherwise known as "teh munchies"

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:08 pm

some guys know suspiciously lot

Post by **Killfile** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:07 pm

Interestingly, I've never used pot or any other illegal drug - for personal medical reasons that could be a very bad idea for me.

Nonetheless, the drug laws in this country make for an interesting study in the early power of fear based media and its impact on the legislative process.

God I need to get out more.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:06 pm

Killfile wrote:God I need to get out more.

Quoted for truth

to tell you the truth, I am starting to lose the point of this thread

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:16 pm

I'm not too clear on this: is the plant itself illegal to grow in the US also? or to develop into other products?

The answer wouldn't really change my stance but I am curious. I think it's pretty harmless from what I've seen, though I haven't ever had any drugs myself, unless you count some occasional alcohol. Any problems that may or may not come from weed are equated to those that arise from alcohol, in my book. It's a matter of will, control, and responsability, really. If someone's stoned or drunk 24/7, that's their beef until something bad happens. I might be in favor of certain safety regulations like those regarding drinking and driving, but even then I would need to be sure that there would be some observable positive effect...

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:28 pm

Wandering_Mystic wrote:It's a matter of will, control, and responsability, really.

I think Mystic pointed out a major problem here.
When drinking alcohol, you have to send down a few glasses "to get yourself high". By smoking pot you can achieve the same effect much faster and only by smoking a single piece.
I've never heard that anyone has ever proved that alcohol caused physical addiction, but still there are alcoholists, and they do die, or cause death. I fear that if pot was legal, it would quickly grow into an industry. I'm sure you could soon buy it in a store. And if it is good, people could become smokers not becouse their body is addicted to it, but becouse they can't get enough of the new sensation.
And I am sure that new types of social disfuntctions would come out of it.
ENTER

oww, my brain hurts...

Post by **Killfile** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:28 pm

Pot is....
Illegal to possess
Illegal to sell
Illegal to buy
Illegal to grow
Illegal to use

Hell, you even need a special lience to grow hemp - which of course is the same plant, but not cultivated for its THC content.

It's even illegal to sell Oregano if you say it's pot.

Post by **Femto** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:31 pm

Alcohol is much more damaging than weed.

I've known people that can drive without a problem when stoned, but good luck driving if you're drunk.

Alcohol impairs your motor skills a lot more than weed does and that leads to more short term accidents.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:32 pm

would you entrust your life to a blazed driver?

I still think no

Post by **Femto** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:36 pm

If I know and trust the guy, I would and I have and I'm still here.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:38 pm

brave wouldn't be the right word for that, but I can't come up with another

Post by **Femto** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:42 pm

You said you've never gotten high on weed, so you obviously don't know how that works.

I'd rather drive with a stoner than with a drunk (which I have done too) any day of the week, it has nothing to do with being brave or not.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:48 pm

nope, and not many of my friends have

am I in the wrong circle? maybe not...

If you want to prove to me that alcohol is worse than weed, so be it, I don't really know.
However, alcohol doesn't really encourage you to turn to drugs, while weed is the diving-board for many. It may be different where you live, but this is the case where I live.

So in what aspect would alcohol+weed be better?

Post by **Femto** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:57 pm

That's entirely up to the individual. Neither is "better," it's just a matter of knowing which one is more likely to cause short term damage, i.e. alcohol. I personally find a stoner to be much more likeable than a drunk.

You say weed leads to other drugs (which, from personal experience, is a really broad generalization) and I say alcohol leads to alcoholism, which is just as bad.

And "wrong circle"?

Again, what are you talking about?

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:06 pm

well, my friends, if any, have acohol as their "drug", but none of them are alcoholists

alcohol on it's own doesn't really lead to alcoholism (I never knew I'd ever be promoting alcohol, and watch out: I AM NOT), most of them have social, financial, or psychological problems

you are probably gonna say weed doesn't lead to addiction (I'm not too concerned about that, but it's not my main interest at the momoent)

so there

I still wanna know aht in the world would be better, if weed was legal?

Whenever an economist faces this kind of problem, he makes a cost-benefit analysis.
So let's do that. Any benefits for

? (man I used to use this emoticon a lot

)

Post by **Femto** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:10 pm

Skullkracker wrote:alcoholists

roffles

I don't care or know enough about economics to waste my time arguing about it.

Alcohol is more damaging than weed in short term, they are about even in the long run.

Period.

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:16 pm

If you are worried about an increase in drug users, I think such a problem has less to do with the actual drugs, and more to do with the society and it's flaws. That's part of what I mean when I say it comes down to will, control and responsability: If people need some kind of release from stress (or feeling powerless or desperate or whatever critical reason) so much that the easiest thing for them to do is obtain black-market goods, then that is to me an indication that something is not right in the society itself. I have come to see addiction as a mental/psycological phenomenon as much as (if not more than) a physical one.

This may be a kind of extreme view in itself, but it's one that I find hard to shake off nevertheless

Edit: and regarding economic impact, if you are too worried about the negative changes that would come, then why not be in favor of outlawing alcohol, tobacco, or even video games for that matter? After all, we are talking about a recreational drug here (weed), at least as far as I am concerned. The commercialization of weed would be a problem with commercialization, not necessarily with weed. This, too, would be what I reffered to as a "societal concern", in my opinion

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:21 pm

I don't know much about economycs either, and I have been studying it for rour years too. It's simply: who is it good for and why, who is it bad for and why, what other effects could it have and why. All an economist might add is "translate it into $".

yawn
I should be Crusher of dreams by now

edit: Mystic is right btw

so: Ban society

Post by **LordMune** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:25 pm

Femto, I think you will find that most european users on this forum won't agree with you- Europe doesn't have a counterpart to the American "weed culture".

Except for the Netherlands, I suppose, but we like to pretend that country doesn't exist.