Killfile Berserk Education Thread...

[Istvan]

I think I will have to agree will Killy. Guts is never shown sharpening his sword and the comment he made about it being dull was when he was fighting the 100 man fight. He just merely stated that it had GROWN dull so if it didn't kill you when it hit you then you would be in for a painful death. I think he only got it repaired/sharpened when he took it to Goddo, who now is dead so all he's got is Rickert. Hope he stays alive or Guts is screwed if his sword fucks over.

You're missing the point. A huge sword like Guts is NEVER sharp. Any sort of edge would shatter when it hit something hard (like armor) because of the force behind the blade. Swords like that were never sharp, because they didn't need to be. The ability to cut is just a great enough force applied to a small enough surface area. Huge swords make up in force what they lack in sharpness. You'll also notice that a number of times throughout the series Guts rests his blade on his shoulder. The reason he can do this and not cut himself is because the blade isn't sharp. A sword that big doesn't need to be sharp, it just blows right through whatever it hits.

[Killfile]

Right - and you've touched on why European heavy weapons worked....

But if you look and how Dragonslayer goes though things you'll note that the incision is often clean -- many times cleanly cutting through, rather than collapsing, delicate bones, such as the clavical (collar bone) and facial bones.

Now I'm not saying that we should treat Berserk as a medical textbook -- but there are definately sections where Dragonslayer outpreformes any mere "slab of iron."

There's only so much you can attribute to Guts. He can make the blade move, but when it makes contact, that's up to the weight, sharpness, hardness, and other properties of the Dragonslayer. Guts is just holding on at that point.

[MrFelony]

maybe its just easier to draw a clean incision? or maybe it didnt occur to muira. there are a lot of explanations .

[LordMune]

maybe its just easier to draw a clean incision? or maybe it didnt occur to muira. there are a lot of explanations .

Someone with Miura's talent for blood and gore need not bother himself with clean incisions.
He's either doing it to demonstrate the l337ness of the Dragon Slayer and the Mad Skillz of Guts. Or he just does it because it looks cool.

[psi29a]

There really isn't a reason why we have to justify Miura's drawing/writing, it would be the same as trying to justify Lucas's dialog when H. Solo said "the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs." It is obviously misleading.

We don't have many answers from Miura, and I don't plan on asking any of him till he finishes the series. That probably won't happy for a VERY long time. He started in 1989, as far as I'm concerned he is in the middle of the story.

[Brainpiercing]

Heh, the dragon slayer just has variable edge geometry. Sometimes it's blunt, sometimes it's sharp.


However, it's a common misconception that swords in the middle ages were always blunt. YES they were probably not very sharp, but they were still cutting and stabbing weapons, and not brute force bludgeoning weapons like war hammers or big axes.
However, being sharp, their blades were a lot more delicate than what we are usually shown in movies/novels/mangas, whatever. If you were to actually hit two hardened edges together, they would most probably both break. Which just shows that we know far too little about the actual fighting techniques usually employed in battles in the past. Considering some people kept one sword for generations, it's highly probable they never actually bashed cutting edge against cutting edge.

Now I do medieval sword fencing with a blunt (2-3mm) bastard sword, and YES you can break bones with it. But I'm quite positive you can't penetrate armour easily. You can also bash these kind of swords together like there's no tomorrow, and you sometimes get heavy notches. A <1mm hardened edge wouldn't get a little notch, it would crack. It would also be near impossible repairing it once it's been hardened.

[Istvan]

Sure, most blades in the middle ages where at least somewhat sharp. Only Japanese samurai swords were truly sharp the way a modern person would understand the term, but the average blade in mid-evil europe was at least somewhat sharp. A huge sword like Guts is never sharp though, because given the force and weight of the blade, any edge would shatter on impact. Oh, and from what I recall, normally when you blocked a blade during that period, you blocked with the flat, not the edge of the blade.

[Starnum]

I seriously doubt you'd ever want to block with the flat of your blade. As a swordsman myself, I know how much that could damage the integrity of your blade, if not possibly shatter it. Now, western swords are more stable than Katana, which is what I use, however, I've never heard of this principle. You're actually trained to block near the base of the blade, near the hilt. This is the strongest point of integrity for the blade, or as Musashi calls it, "The Sticky" spot. It's pretty hard to find at first, but once you do, you'll understand the meaning of those words. A proper block, almost feels as if your swords momentarily meld together, as the momentum of both blades is neutralized. An improper block usually results in damaging your blade, and causes a recoil, which leaves you open. Oh, and I bet The Dragon Slayer, while mostly dull, still has a bit of sharpness to it. At the very least, from the supernatural prowess it's gained from killing so many demons, which Skull Knight has commented on before. I would seriously be shocked to ever see it broken, and I'm betting that Gatts could at least sharpen the sword himself from time to time, if he felt the need to. We've seen him attending his gear before, and while it's not always shown, I'm betting he still takes care of his items. In the past he needed Godo to do major repairs, but with the imbued essence of the sword now, that's probably not even neccessary.

[MrFelony]

duders its +1, it never dulls. why is a small thing like sharpness THAT important to the whole of the manga.

[Starnum]

It's not.

[MrFelony]

exactly lol. so killfile, just stop thinking so much about the technicalities and you'll enjoy the manga SO much more

[Brainpiercing]

Well, I'm not sure about medieval technique, but later (towards the 15th century) people developed fencing styles where there was no block, you merely let the opponents swords slip off your own to change its direction. Which is also why you actually used the flat of the blade to do it.
Of course a direct hit against the flat of the blade would probably cut it or break it.

[Istvan]

Oh, and I bet The Dragon Slayer, while mostly dull, still has a bit of sharpness to it. At the very least, from the supernatural prowess it's gained from killing so many demons, which Skull Knight has commented on before.

My impression had been that the enhancement of the blade wasn't so much that it was sharper against normal foes, as that it had gained an astral presence from the number of supernatural beings that Guts had killed with it, and so it could actually hurt beings such as the god hand that had so much astral presence as to be impossible to harm by purely physical means.

[Starnum]

Well, right, but it might have gave it a bit of a sharper edge as well. He never really said exactly *shrugs*.

Yeah, a parry is always better than a block.

[Brainpiercing]

Heh, but a block is so much more fun. If you can't hear a nice clank, it's boring. (well, it's not, I'm just too unskillful to do anything else ).

[Khelegond]

I'm a swordsman too, but of a different kind - fencer. So, I cannot help at all in Guts style, since fencing is all about light weapons - more like the one Griffith and Serpico use. There you learn that parrying is just changing the direction of the enemy's blade, not stoping it with your one blade. And, as Starnum pointed out, using the base of the blade - so much that, if you only stop the enemy blade with the point of the sword, it's not considered a parry (in Foil).

[kysius]

the whole point to the sword is that its unwieldable, yet guts is doing the impossible, shierke notices this and realises guts is manipulating the corporal world somehow im pretty sure they talk about this in inock