The REAL Story behind Thanksgiving

[ucrzymofo87]

As you celebrate Thanksgiving you may want to ponder the true meaning of Thanksgiving.

This story does a good job of telling the truth behind Thanksgiving

The Real Thanksgiving Story

[Damien]

Yeah I read it last year, Its prety fucked up how many tribes were wipes out, I am like 30-40% Indian so yeah it really sucks, and the ONLY reason why I celebrate thanksgiving is because I LOVE Turkey. I know the the truth about what happened a long ass time ago, its the least I can say for alot of people who blindly celebrate the holiday.

[Libaax]

I knew about a long time too, which is why i feel so uncomfortable everytime americans on tv talk about this holiday.

[Loeviz]

Yeah I also learned about the real reason way back in school.

[Libaax]

Actually i heard about in a NAS song before i heard it the real story.

Who said Rap songs aren't educational

[Killfile]

There are a LOT of details (very relevant ones) omitted from this (somewhat skewed) version of American History.

If we assume the authors arguments about ownership in the Pilgrim colony to be correct, than the Pilgrims compact was an early form of communism not socialism (as in Socialism you would have only partial government ownership of private resources, not total). Of course, Marx's theories indicate that communism can not be imposed, but must develop naturally - which is exactly in accordance with what the pilgrims found.

So a more historically correct take on this story (that holds with the authors assumptions) is that the pilgrim's experience validates Karl Marx's theories on the "end of history."

But there's more to it than that.

The British Crown's involvement with the Pilgrim's experiment was also more involved than the text you reference lets on. Yes, the Pilgrim's owned a share in this common store. More accurately, we should note that the Pilgrims relationship with England was a mercantailist one. The profit of the mother country was held above the prosperity of the colony itself. For more on mercantilism and how it works, please see the wikipedia entry on the same, provided here.

Now that we understand mercantilism, perhaps a different explanation will make more sense.

The land and resources of the Pilgrim colony were owned through a corporation in which the Pilgrims had some (but not all) of the stock. Much of the stock was owned by investors in the expedition who remained overseas in England. These people profited from whatever good fortune found the Pilgrims. In short, the "communist" system imposed on the pilgrims was more accurately a form of wage slavery.

When Bradford seized the land from the holding company and distributed it amongst the colonists, his radical decision foreshadowed the actions of various Banana Republic revolutionaries that the United States would condemn as "communists" in the 1960s. Taking land from a foreign corporation and giving it to locals -- that doesn't sound like capitalism... it sounds like the nationalization of resources.

Lets be honest in our understanding of history. The Pilgrim's story doesn't address the arguments of Marx, or modern day Socialists, or even Communists at all. At best, it addresses the situation of the small countries affected by Western Neo-Colonialism and their attempts to free themselves from that yolk. At worst, it is a singular example, untethered to the ideals of modern corporate capitalism.

[Saiyah]

Who said Rap songs aren't educational Wink

Dr. Eldo.


But yeah, I heard that on a Nas song too, poison. Meh, I don't celebrate it anyway.

[Libaax]

Then dr. Eldo is a quack

Posion is a great song isnt it.

[Saiyah]

Heh, I think he's O.K.


But yeah poison is a good song, Nas is one of the only rappers I respect. Just don't like the mainstream songs about how much he has and has and how many girls he screwed. I call him the Hypocrite with a message.

[Libaax]

Heh thats why like him,he has something to say. If you like Nas,you should i like Immortal Technique, have you heard him?

[Saiyah]

I've heard of that before. Never heard any songs.

My friend and I own a club together and she is always talking about different music
She knows way more about it then I do. I guess its underground.

I only listened to 50 when he was underground and lil whyte. --- the both have no substance but they are entertaining.

[Libaax]

He is undergrpund but he is pretty big now.

Listen to his albums Revolutionary vol 1 and 2 they are one of the best i have heard.

[Laik]

If we assume the authors arguments about ownership in the Pilgrim colony to be correct, than the Pilgrims compact was an early form of communism not socialism (as in Socialism you would have only partial government ownership of private resources, not total). Of course, Marx's theories indicate that communism can not be imposed, but must develop naturally - which is exactly in accordance with what the pilgrims found.

I agree.

I knew most of that already for some reason just can't remember where I read it. Also, I never really blindly celebrated any holiday for real now that I think about it.

Strange that someone mentioned Nas because he is my favorite rapper. His songs usually has enough depth to them that I can listen to one for hours not just because I like it but because I'm still thinking about the message.

[Buzkashi]

Immortal Technique is good. I prefer Jedi Mind Tricks. Jus Allah, Vinnie Paz, And stoupe on the beats. Thats the great stuff right there. Its to bad Jus Allah left the group though.... Sorry guys for getting off topic.

Well yea I dont really celebrate thanksgiving. Everyday is thanksgiving for me and my family.

Oh killfile I was wondering. Is there some sort of Native American Union or anything, that kept records and numbers of Native Americans killed through the colonizing of this country?

[ucrzymofo87]

Here is George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamaton made on October 3, 1789 (notice who he addresses in the proclamation)

Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me to "recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d day of October, A.D. 1789.

source

[Killfile]

Thanks for posting Washington's address. It's rather eye opening to realize that even 200 years ago the majority of what the President said (even as utilitarian a President as Washington) was meaningless fluf.

Not to be obtuse, but I scanned the address for any mention of capitalism, socialism and communism (would seem unlikely, but what the hell) as well as buisness, enterprise, and other words that would seem to indicate the sort of fundamental conflict of economic models that were advanced in the article that started this whole thread off. I didn't find anything.

Presumably you posted it for a reason beyond reminding us of the kind of language used in late 18th Century America. Kindly clarify that reason?

[ucrzymofo87]

Presumably you posted it for a reason beyond reminding us of the kind of language used in late 18th Century America. Kindly clarify that reason?

Well, how about being thankful for your blessings? I thought that would have been self-evident...but apparently not.

[Killfile]

I'm sorry - I simply assumed that, given the rather pronounced political agenda of the original posted piece that we were discussing how the author used the thanksgiving holiday and its origins to score political points.

Given that assumption, I thought what you were posting had something to do with it.

If we're busy being thankfull -- great.

Here's a thanksgiving toast to (my home) the United States. Imperfect by any measure, but a work in continual progress. May she one day live up to the ideals of her founders, the ambition of her leaders, and the dreams of her people. May we all have the strength, solidarity, and dedication to work tirelessly until those ends are fulfilled.