Fighters Discussion

Post by **Eldo** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:29 pm

Hah, I don't really play much fighting games, just saw it had Spiderman, Wolverine and Venom and my fanboy mode kicked in. Didn't even know it was made by EA either, just knew it existed.

Post by **Libaax** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:33 pm

Femto wrote:I really liked Shinobi. I think it had a great system going for it, always focing you to be faster and faster in killing enemies, and always keeping the pressure high. The animation was beautiful (though motion captured) and the character designs were awesome. I just wish the sequel would've addressed some of the major issues with the game so it could be pushed forward and join top tier action games like DMC or Ninja Gaiden.

I've always seen huge potential in Shinobi, and it's probably the only game that has made me wish I could develop a sequel for, even though I have no particular interests in working in the video game industry.

"the major issues" ruined a game that could have become a classic.

Post by **Femto** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:45 pm

I'd say repetition is the biggest problem in Shinobi. Repetition in stage design, in moveset, in enemies, in bosses, in pretty much everything. Wouldn't it have been awesome to have a fully vertical stage where you put your wall climbing skills to use? Or a more open combo system like DMC? Or more diverse enemies?

It sucks, because I feel like this game had all the ingredients to be a winner, but it feels to me like they didn't push it enough and that's a damn waste.

Post by **Libaax** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:48 pm

With a better producer it could have become a new DMC which was why i bought it.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:07 pm

Bloomberg.com reported that Capcom and Konami are in talks about merging.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... efer=japan

Post by **Femto** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:18 pm

DarkenRahlX wrote:Bloomberg.com reported that Capcom and Konami are in talks about merging.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... efer=japan

That's not really related to fighting games, but it made me realize: should we have a general gaming news thread?

We could post stuff like that there.

EDIT: Done.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:19 am

They have the NGBC backgrounds up at Neo-Arcadia if anyone wants to take a gander. The stages looks incredible.

http://neo-arcadia.com/News/voir_news.p ... n=voirtout

Post by **halfnhalf** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:14 pm

we gonna need a username and pw for that site dark.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:02 pm

I think it's just down.

I just put together a list of all the KOF combatants from KOF '94 to KOF 2003 and including EX 1 and 2.

Yes I know some of the colors are off.

Edit: Picture removed.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:16 pm

Got extra time to kill, huh?

You're missing Maki, '00 Zero, Ron and '01 Zero's Lion. If I were to be really anal about it I'd say you're missing Kyo-1, Kyo-2 and the regular versions of the New Face Team from '97 as well, and if I want to be a fucking asshole I'd say you're missing all of 2000's extra strikers along with Alfred from '99 Evolution.

Speaking of strikers, it would've been awesome if you had used the striker select sprites from '00. There are some awesome poses in there.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:37 pm

I'll get back to work on the list ><. I'll see what I can do about 00 strikers.

Post by **Femto** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:36 pm

More Gai pics + Hayate in KOF XI?

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:03 am

Hell yeah. I guess those rumors a couple of months ago were true. Man Femto I've been waiting for new pics of Gai for a LOOOONG time. He looks so damn swole compared to his striker sprites in evolution and '00. This is by far going to be the best fighting game EVAR.

Hiroaki is the friggin' best KOF artist to me.

All right, then, finally, what do you hope to see for future KOF titles?
Please put Gai from Buriki One and the characters from Kizuna in the game. And be sure to hire me for any subsequent projects. - Hiroaki

So who did you think, "Gee, I really wished we used that character!", but didn't?
Yeah, those would be Gai, Python, and Payak from Buriki One. They could have been the skins team. (Laughs.) I had a hand in the character movement in Buriki One...and designing the characters for the Kizuna Encounter series after that! - Hiroaki

These excerpts were taken from an interview long before KOFXI was announced.

Update:

I wonder what Gai's DMs will look like. In Buriki ONE he had a technique where he would do a flip in the air and knock his opponent on the head with his heel cause them to fall foward, where he would follow up with a head lock of some sort and slam your ass into the ground. Any fan of Grappler Baki is going to appreciate the hell out of Gai being in the game.
I also love the way they beefed up the character sprite. Awesome job.

It would have also been nice that since Gai was in KOF that they would have added the NGBC sprite of Ryo. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a Buriki team with Ryo, Gai, and Python in KOFXII. Or maybe even keeping in Buriki Ryo in his AOF team and adding another character to the Buriki line up...I'm thinking way ahead here.

Another thing...I don't believe that SNK will call this "Sho Hayate" Sho Hayate. I think that this is probably his master and that this is where he meets up with Terry Bogard. That's what I think SNK will incorporate to the story line. People on many boards are saying time travel...I don't think SNK will stoop so low.

I would also like to see Kim Kaphwan in his Mark of the Wolves outfit. Yes Kim IS in Garou, except he's not playable for those who don't think he's in there. When you beat an opponent using Dong Hwans qcf, qcf, qcf + C technique to finish off your opponent he pops out to scold him. He looks freakin uber. I'm trying to find the sprite right now, but to no avail.

Post by **Tempest** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:17 am

I don't think Kim's MoTW outfit is that different from his usual one, his hair is just darker and his uniform has T-Shirt sleeves. But it would be pretty cool to see that, I will admit.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:35 am

Instead of his costume being blue and white wasn't it black and white with bands around his sleeves also. I'm trying to find a sprite of him.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:40 am

It's like Tempest said, the same costume as always, just with darker/black bands and his sleeves are not rolled up. You can get him if you finish the last round with any Super, not just his qcfx3+P one.

You were probably just using a different colored Dong Hwan and Kim's costume just happened to change with it.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:49 am

Yeah, that first with in my post was supposed to be white.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:53 am

DarkenRahlX wrote:Yeah, that first with in my post was supposed to be white.

I see.

It's still not a different costume, just the sleeve thing and he just looks more built, like the difference between regular Terry and MOTW Terry.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:01 am

He looks better I think with the black striping and his sleeves rolled down.

I also wish they wouldn't have messed with Kim's standing sprite. Since they redid it to have more animation to it, the rest of his sprite animations clash with it. I saw nothing wrong with the regular standing sprite from before. It actually looks better to me because it fits with the rest of the animations. It would have been nice if they would have given Kim a 100% face lift instead of just doing the standing sprite.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:15 am

What they need to do is draw all the KOF sprites from scratch, and I'm not even asking for high-res. The earlier sprites don't match with the later ones, and I'm not just talking about animation, but overall style and even scale (Vanessa's frame is much smaller than Yuri, who is just a teenager). The sprites matched perfectly in '94 (obviously), in '96 when they pretty much re-did the whole game and again in '99 when they redid a lot of them ('99 is the prettiest KOF game IMO), but they haven't bothered to do that ever since. Even new character sprites in same game can vary, check out Terry's horrible sprite in '03 as opposed to Duo Lon awesomeness. And let's not even mention half-assed redraws like Kim's you mentioned of Iori's infamous head change in '01.

KOF is a mess as far as sprite consistency is concerned right now, a fresh start from the ground up has been overdue for a long time.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:38 am

I think the first time I noticed Iori's head change was in SVC Chaos...I just laughed. I just think it's craptastic that SNK used it in both '01 and SVC. Duo Lon does look awesome.

One thing that pisses me off is the fact that they changed Roberts sprites entirely and then dich him in XI...They spent all that time to make a new design and then he's left out. The new characters in XI seem to be animated all right from the little I've seen of them. Momoko can still go to hell though. I'm not to kean on B. Jenet either, but it's better than having Mai to me. I wish they would have also changed Duck King's design a bit...since he still looks like he's from the early 90's. I think it's the vest. Mary is due for a redraw. Kensou's new outfit could have been designed better I believe. At least he looks a little better. Shingo sure as hell needs a new outfit. While on the subject of the Kusanagi wannabe... what the hell are Iori, Kyo, and Shingo doing on the same team? What are Iori and Kyo still doing in KOF?

Gai...Gai is the best thing to ever happen to this game for me. I can't wait to play as Baki's tribute. His new sprite is awesomely bulky...around 81-86kg(180-190lbs) and his animations from the video seem pretty smooth.

But in terms of animation Duo Lon owns most if not everyone so far in KOF out of regular characters.

All in all I think SNKP focused more of their time and resources on NGBC from the looks of things. Yuki is animated beautifully along with most of the other cast members. Robert looks damn awesome too from footage I've seen of him.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:57 am

Robert looks like ass in '03 from what I remember though. I think it's better that they don't feel forced to use characters just because they made new sprites for them. Foxy was only used once and that worked fine.

As for XI's roster, Duck King is awesome no matter what, having Psycho Soldier Kensou back is awesome, Shingo is Shingo so whatever, B. Jenet is meh, I'd have to use Momoko to judge her and Gai is awesome x infinity. Don't really care about Hayate though, Kim Sue Il would've been much better IMO. I don't really care about storyline consistency in KOF (which was pretty much ruined with AOF taking place years before FF yet both teams looking roughly the same in KOF), so I wouldn't mind him there. I guy with a giant boomerang is more ridiculous than a descendant of Kim and Kim existing in the same game IMO.

NGBC sprites aren't that good either IMO. A 3-4 frame stance is not my idea of good animation.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:06 am

I think they look a tad better than KOF. I thought Robert's character design in '03 was spiffy >.>. It didn't look like Miami Vice anymore.I don't really care if Robert stays in KOF or not, it's just that I thought that since they spent time on his sprite that they would include him on the next one.

But really, after Mark of the Wolves we know that SNK is capable of pushing out better graphical material than what they are putting into their fighters.

With Momoko...I just have something against kids being in a fighting tournament. I know she has psycho powers, but to shoot a Ryu sized laser beam...that's crazy. The thing I like about Kensou are his awesome gloves. <- A.D.D.?

My only real complaints about XI I guess would have to be B. Jenet and Momoko. Other than that I'm cool with everything else really. Oh wait. Malin... she can go too.

And mark my words. Shingo will rule KOF one day ><!

Post by **Femto** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:16 am

SNKP can't do MOTW quality, not anymore.

MOTW, along with both Last Blade 1 and 2, were done by a different studio (forgot the name), most of which left after SNK went bankrupt. You think if SNKP still had MOTW or Last Blade talent they wouldn't be using it? I'm sure they could match the style, but nothing like Gekka or MOTW will ever come out anymore. As a matter of fact, the 2D fighting genre will never reach the level of quality it had during the mid/late 90's. It's sad, but it's true.

The funny thing is that supposedly some of the MOTW/Last Blade guys went on to form Arc System Works, and you know how I feel about the animation in their games. I'd say they had to comprimise detail for animation, but who knows how many of the original SNK guys moved over. Some of them moved to Capcom too, I think.

I'd still take better animation over high res any day of the week though.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:20 am

What if they've been working on Street Fighter IV all this time >.>? Yes, I know, I dream too much.