Newbie Berserk Discussion Thread

Post by **Skullkracker** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:50 am

Didn't he make his choice already? They ARE going to Elfhelm after all. So Caska is of primary importance to him...yet.

Post by **RedEyes** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:51 am

if that is the case, why not get her healed and leave her behind until killing (or being killed by) Griffith? While this possibility exists, Guts will not kill Casca, instead he'll leave her behind.

Skullknight might be really powerful, but this doesn't mean that he's wise enough to predict Guts' fate. When Flora and SK decided to give the berserker armor to Guts, SK started thinking that Guts will end up like him. Flora corrected him by saying that fate is more of a spiral than circle. Even events looks the same, the choices that others make, alter the outcomes...

Post by **suddy** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:13 am

yeah i agree with Skullkracker and Redeyes
Gatts has made the decision to get cascas memory back...so maybe..just maybe he's altering from his path to help the women he loves...
I hate to say it but it all really comes down to the author and how he feels. I read the interview they had with him and he said he based gatts on his life annd his close friends..so i hope he s romantic guy ^^

(hope he makes a semi-happy semi-tragic ending)
Ahhh cant wait for next chapter

btw Redeyes which anime/manga is ur Avatar from?

Post by **RedEyes** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:35 am

He is Alucard from Hellsing.

Post by **Khelegond** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:12 pm

I think Gatts is showing each chapter that he rather have Casca than lose her to kill Griffith. He's sad because SK told him "What you wish may not be what she wishes", he's going to Farneze's house to talk to her (she was babysitting Casca), he looks at her sadly from time to time, he's avoiding become berserker everytime they fight. I think it has something to do with the whole group, but mainly for Casca!

I think ElfHell (as Isidro says

) will prove my point. I would love to see Casca fighting along Gatts, that would be simply perfect after all this time.

And about someone a while ago posted that Casca bothers him, 'cuz Gatts been protecting her and she hates him - man, she has a child's mind! He wounded her, she became mad. She can't reason, so how can she sees he's protecting her?

Cheers,

Khelegond

Post by **MrFelony** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:34 pm

Khelegond wrote:I think Gatts is showing each chapter that he rather have Casca than lose her to kill Griffith. He's sad because SK told him "What you wish may not be what she wishes", he's going to Farneze's house to talk to her (she was babysitting Casca), he looks at her sadly from time to time, he's avoiding become berserker everytime they fight. I think it has something to do with the whole group, but mainly for Casca!

I think ElfHell (as Isidro says ) will prove my point. I would love to see Casca fighting along Gatts, that would be simply perfect after all this time.

And about someone a while ago posted that Casca bothers him, 'cuz Gatts been protecting her and she hates him - man, she has a child's mind! He wounded her, she became mad. She can't reason, so how can she sees he's protecting her?

RedEyes wrote:if that is the case, why not get her healed and leave her behind until killing (or being killed by) Griffith? While this possibility exists, Guts will not kill Casca, instead he'll leave her behind.

you see...that's MAKING a choice. by leaving her, he is telling her his dream is more important to him than she is. I dint think she will take that again. each time he does one thing for casca, it brings that much greater distance between him and griffith. imagine it this way. griffith and casca(casca and elfhelm) are on opposite sides of a field. the more he tries to reach one, the farther he gets from the other.

I hate to be a downer, but this is a dark manga. nothing happy lasts for very long... and as for casca fighting along side guts...that just seems like the least likely scenario. do you really think casca will put a leash on once again and follow someone else's dream. its time she found a life of her own, and i don't think it'll be with guts. remember, griffith and guts, if she regains her full memory, are going to be unbearable sources of shame and pain. griffith for raping her, guts for watching it. I know that sounds weird, but the shame she might feel for having guts see her, she may not be able to stand him seeing her. but also if guts wants to pursue griffith again, i don't think she will go with, especially not when his dream/goal is to kill griffith. she's said no to him once.

suddy wrote:yeah i agree with Skullkracker and Redeyes
Gatts has made the decision to get cascas memory back...so maybe..just maybe he's altering from his path to help the women he loves...
I hate to say it but it all really comes down to the author and how he feels.

yes i think he would give up griffith for casca as long as he makes the realization that what he was looking for was with casca and not in griffith. it seems he has made it, but you guys have to recall when he came back to the hawks after that year. he made the same realization, but was still content to leave, though this time giving casca the choice to come with, more like choose between him and griffith heh

. but yes ultimately it is miura's choice

.

Post by **suddy** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:55 pm

yeah u got some good points there...the part with Gatts in the middle of the field is a perfect example.

I dont think he;ll be willing to leave her to so easily even after she regains her memory...if i recall correctly he said in one of the chapters "Ill never leave you again" (looking over his shoulder at casca)....pretty strong words if u ask me...

One more thing i'd like to add...i think the child is gonna play an integral role in the following chapters..if u remember when Griffth visited the Band of the Hawks grave (Gotos house/mine) he told Gatts "I came here to see you, and to make sure I dont feel anything...and i dont"...however! whilst he was departing he pictured the image of the mutated child...and said something along the lines of "this swaying feeling" whilst putting his palm over his chest...soo...that brings the child into the story a bit more...4 ppl now..its getting more complicated but hell thats what we all want....(well i do)

Post by **Khelegond** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:31 pm

I just cannot understand one thing...

The Behelit Apostle...he "ate" their (Gatts and Casca) child. So, when he gave birth to the new "savior" (Griffith), it was him, or the child? If this reborn Griffith is their child, who the heck is that child on the beach?

I think Griffith was born from the behelit Apostle, and the kind inside him (Gatts and Casca son) influenced him. What are your thoughts? If this has been discussed before, just show where

Cheers,

Khelegond

Post by **Starnum** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:07 pm

Well, no offense, but I completely disagree with you Mr. Felony, and find your logic to be rather absurd. Gatts has already chosen Casca over all else. This has been stated. He wants to help her regain her memory, and live with her, because he loves her. In order for them to live in peace, they have to have the brand removed. The only seemingly possible way to do this, is to destroy Griffith and the God Hand. Gatts’ dream is now to be with Casca; however, he has to go through Griffith to achieve this. Thinking he’s going to kill her is nonsense, but that’s just my opinion, so we’ll leave it at that. So, our cards are on the table. Let’s wait and see how things turn out.

By the way, the reason Casca acted fond of Griffith when he first appeared is because she sensed her child, which he was partially assimilated with.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:46 pm

Khelegond wrote:I just cannot understand one thing...

The Behelit Apostle...he "ate" their (Gatts and Casca) child. So, when he gave birth to the new "savior" (Griffith), it was him, or the child? If this reborn Griffith is their child, who the heck is that child on the beach?

I think Griffith was born from the behelit Apostle, and the kind inside him (Gatts and Casca son) influenced him. What are your thoughts? If this has been discussed before, just show where

Cheers,

Khelegond

As far as I can imagine it, maybe the behelit aposlte clenged the child, and used the essence of Gr. to create a powerful being, which really seems to be a powered up Gr.

Post by **Necromancer** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:56 pm

Maybe Griffith took the Childs Body and that thing we see is its lost soul without a physical body like all the other ghosts at night.

Post by **suddy** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:51 am

Necromancer wrote:Maybe Griffith took the Childs Body and that thing we see is its lost soul without a physical body like all the other ghosts at night.

Quite interesting arguement....but i have to repute by saying that the child was found by coincidence..the plan to make griffth reincarnated on earth was established ages ago...the huge apostle beheilt already knew griffth was going to be reincarnated or something was gonna happen with the God Hand. When the apostle saw the child he was surprised....but yeah i think maybe because the child was in the apostle it may have had an influence on the reincarnated griffth
The child on the beach was very real...everyone could see him...and both casca and gatts could touch him...actually they were the only 2 that touched him...sooo that brings up another arguement...maybe he was just was a lost soul because the other ppl in the group didnt really touch the child so we have no proof that its a material entity

Post by **MrFelony** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:27 am

heh i like putting in my two cents

. the idea arranged the events up until that point for guts and casca to fall in love and casca to be pregnant in order for griffith to rape her and taint the child. and then arranged for the child to be present at the reincarnation ceremony. at the ceremony, the egg apostle's special power allowed for the seperation of the taint from the child as well as the transformation of both entities to become what they desired, griffith and a real boy. however the child is unable to rejoin the material world because of the effect of the tain as well as the eclipse, and he seems to only apear around guts and casca, both who are branded thus giving them an attatchment to the ethereal plain or w/e...

edit. ya i do like what you said necromancer. thats a pretty plausable explanation for the split.

as for the feelings griffith may have...they could be some spill over feelings from the childs

.

Post by **ucrzymofo87** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:40 am

it would be cool if gutts and caska fought together again. i'd like to see gutts, caska and the whole gang take on an entire kushan regiment. that would be one crazy battle to see.

Post by **Joeki** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:10 am

Does the Idea really have control over Gattsu? Shouldn't he be dead 20 years already ?!

( I think this is discussed somewhere , so kindly provide the link and/or flame me

) .

Post by **akari** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:26 am

You all talk about SK words "What you wish may not be what she wishes"
But the point could be a lot simpler. He meant that Guts wants to bring Caska back. But Caska doesn't want to turn to normal.

Post by **Khelegond** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:23 pm

Actually, akari, I think that is exactly what he meant. Psicologically speaking, when one is in a state of shock, he protects his mind against the world. So, after what happened in the eclipse, Casca closed her mind to the world, looking like a child. Gatts want her back, but if her own mind closed, that means she doens't want! Simple like that.

Yet, I really want to see the look on Casca face when she comes back to life...something along the lines of:

"Why? Why you done it? Why you brought me back to this nightmare?"
"Because I can't make it alone..."

Man, I'm a sucker for romance, even in a Manga like Berserk

Cheers,

Khelegond

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:32 pm

Khelegond wrote:"Because I can't make it alone..."

It's a beautiful confession...although it may even mean sth more...khm...sexual

(I'm such an ass)

Post by **Khelegond** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:59 pm

Since his left hand is the one made of iron, I think he can quite "make on his one", in the sexual side

Tought...swinging the Dragonslayer may have made his hand too strong and without finesse, so he's quite afraid of...you know...actually, he SHOULD be afraid!

Cheers,

Khelegond

Post by **MrFelony** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:05 pm

Idea sets up situations and helps condition people so that what he planned to happen happens. either two things are going on, guts is unaffected by fate, or idea has set it up so his whole life he has been the struggler and guts is just as a "puppet" of fate/idea as griffith (or anyone) was.

I havent seen it discussed, but this is a non-flame area for already discussed topics

. and akari, i dont think we were discussing whether or not she wants to be healed but what would happen after she is healed. but ya i think she would be much happier staying in a world without worries, but with a prophetic statement like that, you cant assign it to one definite thing.

Post by **Necromancer** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:20 pm

MrFelony wrote:Idea sets up situations and helps condition people so that what he planned to happen happens. either two things are going on, guts is unaffected by fate, or idea has set it up so his whole life he has been the struggler and guts is just as a "puppet" of fate/idea as griffith (or anyone) was.

That is exactly what I thought.
After all, not being affected by fate is fate.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:23 am

or Idea has no idea where to put Guts...he may be the only excitement for Idea: unpredictable, full of surprise, dangerous!

Post by **akari** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:08 pm

MrFelony wrote:and akari, i dont think we were discussing whether or not she wants to be healed but what would happen after she is healed. but ya i think she would be much happier staying in a world without worries, but with a prophetic statement like that, you cant assign it to one definite thing.

Yeah, but IMO it was a main reason causing that discussion.

That wasn't a prophetic statement. Prophecies and their meaning are much more complicated and difficult to understand. In that case i think SK just wanted to say something like that: "dude maybe she don't want to be cured - think about it, don't be egoist" only he couldn't - it would ruin the mood

Post by **MrFelony** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:47 pm

well it can also relate to other things as well, such as not wanting to go with guts as he pursues griffith. i was sort of comparing it to a prophecy as in it could have multiple meanings.

Post by **ucrzymofo87** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:31 pm

granted, all of SK's and Zodd's prophesies about Guts didnt come true, such as Zodd predicting Guts would die at the eclipse. maybe the prediction about caska might not come to pass.