Evil_Genius' Berserk community, Kentaro Miura's epic masterpiece, still active and translated. (Please don't ask about older Volumes. Buy from DarkHorse and support Miura.)
psi29a wrote:In this particular Universe, there is only Idea of Evil which is God. We don't even know what the "Church & Holy See" believe in as a religion. Whatever the case, you can't apply your concept and beliefs to the story because they are fictitious and probably can be made contradictory later by Miura.
EDIT: the idea of opposites has be discussed before, because... well, it is retarded. Berserk is meant to be bleak with no hope and total despair. There isn't any good to be had anywhere other than what Humans try to do to survive. The closet thing to "good" is the 4 Elementals and those are neutral in nature. Never once is there a mention of anything "Good", search the translations yourself.
I didnt think of comparing the god in Berserk to real life religion, i was talking only about berserk.
I wonder how The Idea is in the eyes of the vatican church in Berserk.
The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of the martyr- The Quran
Brainpiercing wrote:That church is weird, but they probably don't even know idea exists.
Then who do they believe in?
I think they believe in the Idea cause they talked about the white and black hawk prophecies and since the Idea is the controller of fate,they may have got the prophecy from him since he was the only one who knew about what would be happening to Griffith and Guts.
The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of the martyr- The Quran
Brainpiercing wrote:That church is weird, but they probably don't even know idea exists.
From the history itself and that "added" chapter describing The Idea, isn't "this" whole humankind who created The Idea in first place?
So, I think, every concept of a "God" developed in this Dark-Fantasy world, in both good or evil ways, unforgiving, vengeful, maybe even whining, where created by humans, and mixed together in The Idea.
Humankind created idea, but of course subconsciously. They also don't worship idea, but they do worship some sort of punishing, unforgiving god, as has been said before. Idea dishes out destinies and prophecies as it seems fit, and both the church and the people interpret those as coming from their god.
Probably the only people who really know about idea are the god-hand. Even Shierke/Flora only know that the god worshipped by the people is bad.
One thing bugs me, though. In one panel Flora talks about another god, possibly really a better one?
Brainpiercing wrote:Humankind created idea, but of course subconsciously. They also don't worship idea, but they do worship some sort of punishing, unforgiving god, as has been said before.
What I meant was that by the worship to that other sort of God, humankind created (best word would be contributed) The Idea. Mixing all those ways, of bad Gods (punishing and unforgiving), and of good ones of which we don't know yet.
But if they believe in the prophecies of the Idea then its the same as they believe in him even if they don't know how he is. I don't think there is a "good" god i think there are only the Idea. Its fits the style of the manga more if there are only a god that the humans themselves created.
The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of the martyr- The Quran
The way mangaka uses "Idea" reminds me of the ancient Greek philosophers, especially Platon. According to Platon, the world we see, the perceptual world and the things in it are imperfect copies of the intelligible and perfect ideas (also called forms). Plato's God is at the core of this duality and it is also called the Form (Idea) of the Good. It is perfect and it emanates light on all the other ideas. The Idea in the Berserk is like a negative image of this concept, the Form of the Evil.
Miura took a lot of influence from known philosophies. As he said he experiences the world through the window of his little chamber, and I guess he will have read stuff, too.
There are numerous philosophical ideas of humans creating their own gods, and these have also been used in other literature. Platon was probably the first to voice it like that, though.
Except Griffith didnt even get a chance to hit Guts at least Serpico go a scrach in.
I loved it in the end of 256 when Serpico thought he had a chance then Guts changed the tide by not letting it happen. He must have been thinking somting like:
This is part of my thesis im gonna do on berserk when i have the time (and now since i have re-dled almost all the manga) but its the exact (more like very similar) same scenario (part of my cycle idea). guts is stealing away farnese and changing her (but putting her life in danger) just like he took griffith away from casca and put his life in danger as well as changed him a little...its complicated but i got to work it all out
Dominion wrote:that whole fight between gatts and serpico seems reminisent of gatts' fight with griffth before he left
Well, Serpico as a person resembles Griffith. They both handle their weapons about the same(That's the impression I get anyhow) and they both think the same to a certain degree. I think Serpico could be a great leader instead of being Farnese's lapdog all the time.
I didn't think Serpico had any chance anyhow. Guts seems to be the perfect human warrior, described having "inhuman fighting powers" and even admired by the Godhand for his fighting spirit. Even Serpico admits several times that he has no chance against Guts.
Can't say I thought that the Serpico/Guts fight reminded me of Griffith vs Guts. Serpico planed his attack knowing that Guts was the superior fighter, while Griffith thought he could take him head on. Plus the reason for Serpico to fight seems much more noble in its own way than selfish ass Griffith.
Ayanami wrote:Can't say I thought that the Serpico/Guts fight reminded me of Griffith vs Guts. Serpico planed his attack knowing that Guts was the superior fighter, while Griffith thought he could take him head on. Plus the reason for Serpico to fight seems much more noble in its own way than selfish ass Griffith.
Maybe you have to switch places, Guts being in Griffith's position, and Serpico in Guts place.
Last edited by The_Paya on Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
The_Paya wrote:Maybe you have to switch places, Guts being in Griffith's position, and Serpico in Guts place.
I am sorry, not too sure what you mean with this post.....
Could you elaborate?
Sure. Think about Guts leaving, Griffith wanted him to stay. Now there is Serpico (and Farnese) leaving and (maybe, just maybe) Guts wants them to stay. Kinda the old fight happens again, but, this time, the one in Griffith place is Guts.
I must say I don't see this similiarity. Guts hadn't left yet when he fought Griffith, Serpico was basically already gone. Serpico could have just not fought him at all, it wasn't about leaving Guts.
The fight was to reassure Serpico that Guts wouldn't lose to the rage and kill Farnese, although only Shierke can really prevent that. Schierke also alleviated his doubt.
Possibly you could say that this fight was somewhat the antithesis of Guts leaving Griffith.
