Chapter 255

Post by **MrFelony** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:14 pm

correction: beats

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:25 pm

Wyrm wrote: I at least think that it is strongly suggested that Guts will have to become much more than just a human to overcome his future encounters. Besides, a mortal can only do so much against a god. Like the Skull knight says (V10c10p207), this world is like the moons shadow on the water. It is impossible to make the shadow of the moon disappear because as long as the moon is in the sky a shadow will appear on the water. Right now Guts is a fish swimming in the water, which I guess means that he can create ripples and disrupt the shadow of the moon, but alas he cannot yet make it disappear. For that he needs to be more than a mere fish.

Earlier Skull Knight said something similar about challenging the Hawk would be like people in a tale trying to destroy those who bind them. To do that they would have to reside outside the tale (v28c237p28). I think that means that humans cannot challenge the godhand because humans are bound by fate and Godhand direct fate. Guts is now a notch or two above humans with his brand and Berserker amour but he still has quite a while to go. What the Skull Knight is now hints at what Guts might have to become to fulfill his vengeance. But we still don't know what the Skull Knight is so.... Besides it took SK, what, a couple of hundred years to become what he is? Let's hope Guts finds a shortcut or not even our grandchildren will have any hopes of seeing the outcome of this masterpiece Manga.

Wither he stays a human or not is the question that the manga has been all about since the eclipse, really. Skull Knight himself asks that question in v16c08 and again later. So we'll just have to wait and see.

You make some good points, but I have to point out that Guts has never really been in the sway of fate. In that way he is unique among humans, possibly, but the question still remains why him, or better yet how? He was born from a corpse and his whole life people have been pointing out to him that he should have died one time after another, and he shouldn't be alive (well, more accurately he has been told he should be dead now, which changes the insinuation ever so slightly)

Also, the skullknight path is but one possibility, the other being the unspecified path that Shierke's master hinted at (jeez I'm never sure how to write her damn name. Why can't it just be Silke, like the elemental...). Remember how she responded to Skullknight (or Knight of Skeleton, as his name appears in the PS2 game, lol) who said that it seems history went full circle? She said something like "hmm, maybe not a circle, but perhaps more like a spiral..."

P.S. Your citation skills are impressive.

I am far too lazy and have a very untrained memory for details (but to make up for that I am told that I see the bigger picture more clearly, so I guess it balances out somehow)

Post by **Libaax** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:13 am

Guts will stay human but become stronger somehow. I dont see Guts taking something cheap like Griffith did to become stronger cause its not his style. Plus if he becomes non-human then it takes away him fighting demons to death showing what humans with strong will can do. Like he said to the fat apostle that had a daugther "let me show you what a mere human can do"

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:23 pm

Well, he'll have to somehow become stronger. The way he is now he won't even get near his final battle.

Post by **Necromancer** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:54 pm

To be precise Guts didn't kill Wyald, he harmed him, but couldn't kill him. It was Zodds work. Guts is indeed badass strong, but the only things that help him against demons are his dragonslayer(which is cursed by all the souls and demons he killed) and his berserker armor. Without this two things he couldn't do that much.

Post by **MrFelony** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:52 pm

cause even though he IS strong and badass...he cant punch them to death

Post by **Wyrm** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:04 am

Wandering_Mystic wrote:You make some good points, but I have to point out that Guts has never really been in the sway of fate. In that way he is unique among humans, possibly, but the question still remains why him, or better yet how?

Indeed you are right. One of Guts's greatest strengths is his ability to challenge fate and overcome it. That is one of the things I meant when I said that he is a notch or two above other humans.

By the way, looking trough the old volumes in my search for information I came across two things that I can't make sense of. One is that Berserk starts with Guts having sex with a female apostle and then killing her. Is it me or does that just not seem right? Guts having sex with a apostle, even if it is just so he can kill her? Did he do it to be sure she was a apostle? I thought he could always tell becuase of his brand. So why do something as revolting (for him) as making the beast with two backs with a beast that most likely has two backs, neither of them being pretty? Furthermore I think that the apostle he was having sex with was the same one that killed Corcus in the eclipse.

The other thing I never understood was why Griffith, a man so raised above everyone else suffered such a huge breakdown because of Guts leaving him. His state of being bordered on a extreme post breakup depression. Anyone else found that hard to believe or accept. It was never clearly stated why Griffith was so drawn to Guts in the first place. I for one would have liked Mirua to have gone more in depth with that.

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:16 pm

Necromancer wrote:To be precise Guts didn't kill Wyald, he harmed him, but couldn't kill him. It was Zodds work. Guts is indeed badass strong, but the only things that help him against demons are his dragonslayer(which is cursed by all the souls and demons he killed) and his berserker armor. Without this two things he couldn't do that much.

Hold on here. The only reason Guts didn't kill Wyald is because he had never killed an apostle before and didn't know how to be sure he was really dead. It wasn't because he couldn't do it, but rather because he didn't do it. Wyald was down, and Guts just thought he was dead, so he left him there. If I remember correctly, Guts was still standing and able to swing a sword (when is he ever not able?), and if he had known it wasn't dead he could have just gotten a sword or something from someone and chopped the thing to pieces, or some other thorough measure.

Also, I just realized something. The only reason the dragonslayer was so important in the beginning was because it was a sword that was too thick to break under the stress of being between Guts' monstrous strength and the equally monstrous demons. The cursed part of the sword didn't come until after he slaughtered thousands of demons on his own strength. It wasn't always cursed, at least that's pretty much what Shierke said when handing out the elemental weapons.

Post by **Ayanami** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:14 pm

I think the main reason that Guts was able to have sex with the apostle because during that 2 years, (it is two years right?) after the eclipse, all Guts wanted to do was kill apostles and avenge every one. He did not think or worry about Casca because she was at Godo's, he could stay focused on killing and revenge. The Guts now would not be able to do what he did back in volume one, but during that time he was a different character.

Post by **MrFelony** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:21 pm

damn saw ayanami posted before me, but he didnt touch on everything

. Having sex with the demon was his own way of springing the demon's trap while setting his own. in that position, with his canon, he would be able to take it out much easier than he could have otherwise. However, this doesnt make sense, because the previous guts could have taken it on in a fair fight, but the question is would he have taken the easier way out? One answer is that the beast has an illusion type ability and guts temporarily seduced by the apostle, but it broke and he saw the apostle for what it really was. okay i thought about that a lil too much

. still a lot of dif explanations

as for griffith. in the years that guts had served griffith, he was the back bone and most vital member of the hawks (besides griffith). when griffith first saw guts, he knew he was special, and was highly intrigued by him. he wanted him. over the years he had guts, he grew to appreciate him more and more, though not an equal friendship of peers. but when guts decided to leave and try and earn Griffith's friendship as well as pursue his own dream, griffith snapped. this is near equivalent to when anikan betrayed obi. Not only does he have his most valuable possession leave and desert him, but all of his plans to acquire the kingship (such as certain assassinations, battle, or w/e), were ruined because probably 90% of them included guts. I believe that in his un-griffith like post-breakup depression and panic, he decided to skip a couple of paths and go find solace and progress of his plans in the princess. It would have worked too if that damn maid didnt see them.

thoughts? replies? rebuttals? happy 400th post me

Post by **Libaax** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:02 pm

Necromancer wrote:To be precise Guts didn't kill Wyald, he harmed him, but couldn't kill him. It was Zodds work. Guts is indeed badass strong, but the only things that help him against demons are his dragonslayer(which is cursed by all the souls and demons he killed) and his berserker armor. Without this two things he couldn't do that much.

I dint think the curse you are talking has anything to do with him being able to kill demons with his sword. The Dragonslayer is powerful only in Guts hands cause of his enormous streanght and skill there is no curse that makes it stronger.

As someone already said in this page the curse hasnt always been there and Guts has always ever since he became the blackswordsman had an "easy" time killing demons cause of his power.

Post by **Griffiss** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:55 pm

I agree with Felony on the part concerning Griffith, with one slight alteration. I think that Gattsu's place in Griffith's eyes took him by surprise when he realized he'd loss him. He may have said they were his suborinates but not his friends, but when Gattsu chopped that sword in half, he proved that he was Griffith's equal in strength as well as intent.

Things would have been fine if Griffith had simply summoned the courage to keep on in the hope that he might one day come to a place where he and Gattsu could once more work together, this time as equals, but he was so set in his path and his beliefs that when this dynamic ultimately crashed down around him, his weaknesses surfaced and shagging Charlotte was all he could do to shelter from the pain of realization.

:: puts two cents on the table ::

Post by **Libaax** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:08 am

Griffith just couldnt take that Guts that he always assumed was worth less than him beat him and he knew that his plans of taking of the country or whatever he wanted would be much harder without the strongest man in the Hawks.

My two cents

Post by **Femto** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 am

Well, AbsoluteZero is in, and we all know what that means.

Post by **Libaax** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:16 am

What?

Post by **Femto** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:20 am

Shit, wrong member! Evanidus is the one that posts releases.

Forget everything I said.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:24 am

My opinion on 255... I'm pissed. I see a big ass sword plowing through some columns and now I have to wait for 256 to see what happens. I'm tired of this bullshit. I'm not reading Berserk for 2 years just so i can sit down and enjoy the story in bulk.

Post by **Libaax** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:37 am

Its to late to forgot now femto

I knew i was missing something,now i remember that Berserk itsnt out yet.

Post by **Eldo** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:40 am

You'll have to wait a bit for 256. Nazgul has made no appearances online recently, and have made no activity whatsoever. So, we're all kind of slacking off, heh.

Post by **J2 Cool** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:24 am

is 256 done overseas? The date at the end of 255 would say so

Post by **Libaax** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:27 am

256 was realesed more than a week ago in japan.

Post by **MrFelony** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:48 am

Griffiss wrote:I agree with Felony on the part concerning Griffith, with one slight alteration. I think that Gattsu's place in Griffith's eyes took him by surprise when he realized he'd loss him. He may have said they were his suborinates but not his friends, but when Gattsu chopped that sword in half, he proved that he was Griffith's equal in strength as well as intent.

that too, forgot to mention that.

::takes four cents from the free penny jar::

Post by **panic** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:07 am

hey bud's..
any idea bout oro's sub? he gave up on subbing huh?
..i mean comon, at least post some info bout 256, if you are still considering to sub or not,
or just say "forget bout it! no 256 this time!"
after such ending as 255 had you still keep people waiting!?

Post by **MrFelony** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:12 am

i believe he is enthralled in school/finals hence he is too busy. i believe he posted about it a week ago

Nazgûl wrote:Sorry i am kinda busy right now,but the chapter will be done in few days.

though im not sure if its just Nazgûl or Oro as well.

Post by **Eldo** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:27 am

panic wrote:hey bud's..
any idea bout oro's sub? he gave up on subbing huh?
..i mean comon, at least post some info bout 256, if you are still considering to sub or not,
or just say "forget bout it! no 256 this time!"
after such ending as 255 had you still keep people waiting!?

I wrote:You'll have to wait a bit for 256. Nazgul has made no appearances online recently, and have made no activity whatsoever. So, we're all kind of slacking off, heh.

That's my response. Nazgul's been away, and he's primarily the editor of Berserk. I don't think anyone has made any sort of activity since the leader's been away. He's got a life, unfortunately, succumbed to the evils of real life.