About Griffith...

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The_Paya
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Post by The_Paya »

Arresty wrote:The brand itself is proof that fate has declared him dead. Since he is "dead" then he no longer has any fate and can change fate.
Think about it again. Wasn't Flora that said that the encounter of Silke and Gutts was somehow "predestined"? It's very contradictory to say this, since is Flora itself the one who says that Gutts might be able to not to follow the same path as the SK, And the SK doesn't not referr to Fate, he just refers to the Tale that Griffith is living, Gutts must live outside that Tale, that's all.

And again, Gutts has himself put against lots of choices "after branded" choices that we all know the answer, even if we saw, in the pages of the manga, Gutts debating alone with himself, He will save Casca first. Fate's made all the characters here take a decision, even the branded one. Big decisions, the only problem here, that leads to pre-made situations, is that the development of the characters is so well defined, that if you ask yourself "If had the choice, would Gutts kill Griffith or save Silke?", u may already know the answer. It's like so bound to Fate whims, since Fate first picked up Gutts to the job of Gutts (X'D) and Griffith to the job of Griffith. Anybody else wouldn't have sufficed Fate requests.

Another example is here: the Count offers Gutts as the last sacrifice, which is rejected of curse because he was already a sacrifice and doesn't meant a shit to the Count, he is asked for his daughter. Even in that moment Gutts there is just "causality" he has nothing to do about the Count, Gutts itself didn't changed anything, any other moment would been the same for the count (imagine the Kushans crushing his territory) and he whould have to offer his daughter nomatterwhat.
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Post by Arresty »

I was refering to SK and himself. He has refered to himself with saying things along the lines of its is not my time to do this yet, or things like that all pointing to him still living within fate. If the Kishan had came and destroyed the count then yes that woudl have been fate, but it was Guts. Guts is not even supposed to be alive and he kills him. The count was never supposed to be killed at that time. He was never supposed to summon the God Hand at that time and therefore Guts changed destiny by killing him.

Look at it this way, if Guts never came by woudl he have died at that exact moment. Would he have been asking for help? So if Guts is not supposed to be alive then none of that would have ever happened in the first place. But Guts is alive defying fate and therefore caused events that were not supposed to happen happen. Also its Guts choice to save Casca first, not fate. Fate woudl have them both dead.
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Post by The_Paya »

Arresty wrote:Look at it this way, if Guts never came by woudl he have died at that exact moment. Would he have been asking for help? So if Guts is not supposed to be alive then none of that would have ever happened in the first place. But Guts is alive defying fate and therefore caused events that were not supposed to happen happen. Also its Guts choice to save Casca first, not fate. Fate woudl have them both dead.
My point is that the "result" does not change. The Count may be crying for help with some overpowering Kushan-made demon killing him, but i want to explain is not that they're bound to Fate nomatterwhat, they're bound to their own decisions. For example, if you try to forget that the count has some love for his child, and Gutts came for him, I think he would give his daughter as a sacrifice with no problem at all (more even if she pissed him off in some alternate story).

Fate has bound the role of Gutts to someone with extreme power, but that still cares about others before his own revenge, Fate has bound the role of Griffith to someone with extreme will and ego, but will risk anything to have his Dream come true.

So that the "decisions" that Fate puts in front of them, are well designed to Fate plans. And again, if the SK is bound to fate, and the SK rescued Gutts from the Eclipse, then Gutts alive is the will of Fate. :sweat:
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Post by Arresty »

Not necessarily, Guts was probably not supposed to live for as long as he did. I think normally he and Casca both would have been dead by then. Also my point is that if it was not for Guts he would not be in that situation. Kishan may come 5 years later and kill him but it will be a completely different situation. Also Kushan are lead by an Apostle, and I think apostles live outside of fate as well, so Kushan as a whole may not be bound by fate, but who knows. Also I believe that Guts may live outside of the control of the Idea, but the Idea has control over everything around him so the Idea can set up other peopel to be fated to meet him, and to act towards him a certain way, but has no control over how Guts will respond, or who will win. So in a sense he is still interweaved with fate, but is not bound by it. The Idea can only set up situations around him, but cannot actually control the outcome. So its more like he is a wildcard in a game of poker. It still gets dealt out with the other cards, but what someone does with it is different everytime and the rules do not govern what it must be.
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Post by dos.azn »

i wonder which is greater

griffith wanting zodd to sodomize him

-or-

quentin tarantino wanting to sodomize uma thurman
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Post by Arresty »

Quentin Tarantino has been wanting to Sodamize Uma Thurman since Pulp Fiction. Why do you think he keeps casting her. :oops:
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Post by dos.azn »

derf dude. which is why i ask the question :lol:
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Post by The_Paya »

Arresty wrote:Not necessarily, Guts was probably not supposed to live for as long as he did. I think normally he and Casca both would have been dead by then. Also my point is that if it was not for Guts he would not be in that situation. Kishan may come 5 years later and kill him but it will be a completely different situation. Also Kushan are lead by an Apostle, and I think apostles live outside of fate as well, so Kushan as a whole may not be bound by fate, but who knows. Also I believe that Guts may live outside of the control of the Idea, but the Idea has control over everything around him so the Idea can set up other peopel to be fated to meet him, and to act towards him a certain way, but has no control over how Guts will respond, or who will win. So in a sense he is still interweaved with fate, but is not bound by it. The Idea can only set up situations around him, but cannot actually control the outcome. So its more like he is a wildcard in a game of poker. It still gets dealt out with the other cards, but what someone does with it is different everytime and the rules do not govern what it must be.
So finally you got it! I think is just my lack of natural english why it took too many posts ;+). What you say now is what I try to explain, the next detail of it is, Guts still have his own choices, he may on a twisted day kill Grifith than save anybody else (or may plan anybody saved by somebody) So the outcome of it is, until Guts "act" as Guts, he will be controlled somehow, by his own way to do things, plus/mixed-with, the situations that, as you said, The Idea set up around him.
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Post by Arresty »

Yeah more or less. I hate when I argue about something til I find out I agree with someone just the way we interpret one phrase was different and therefore we thought we opposed. There is a friend of mine that we argue online for hours on top of hours before we realize we are actually arguing the same point just saying it differently. Probably something to do with me. I like to argue. :twisted:
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Post by The_Paya »

Arresty wrote:I like to argue. :twisted:
me too :stupid:
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Post by Arresty »

But its all good cause you use the greatest smiley/emocicon ever. :stupid:
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Post by The_Paya »

It reminds me of Mozgus and his prayers.
Last edited by The_Paya on Thu May 12, 2005 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Femto »

The_Paya wrote:It reminds me of Mozgul and his prayers.
Image

Wasn't there an Omake of Mozgus banging his head against the floor because of n00bs?
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Post by Arresty »

Not sure, if not someone needs to jump on that.
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Post by Eldo »

Femto wrote:
The_Paya wrote:It reminds me of Mozgul and his prayers.
Image

Wasn't there an Omake of Mozgus banging his head against the floor because of n00bs?
Back in DP, yes, gatsthehawk made that one about Nomad. :wink:

I wouldn't mind doing that pic again, but I prefer to use my own material.
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Post by akari »

SK is really opposing his fate if he is still alive ... I mean still walking.... still riding his horse :wink:
How can Guts be outside of his fate if he was destined to meet Silke (according to Flora) ?

..........!!
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Post by Arresty »

I wrote:Also I believe that Guts may live outside of the control of the Idea, but the Idea has control over everything around him so the Idea can set up other people to be fated to meet him, and to act towards him a certain way, but has no control over how Guts will respond, or who will win. So in a sense he is still interweaved with fate, but is not bound by it. The Idea can only set up situations around him, but cannot actually control the outcome. So its more like he is a wildcard in a game of poker. It still gets dealt out with the other cards, but what someone does with it is different everytime and the rules do not govern what it must be.
That explains it. Plus is it not that Schierke was destined to meet him, not him destined to meet her.
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Post by Femto »

akari wrote:How can Guts be outside of his fate if he was destined to meet Silke (according to Flora) ?
This is actually kinda interesting.

I'm assuming that SK = Guts in the sense that they both exist outside of fate here, but maybe both Flora was saying destiny in the sense that Guts, being in SK's situation (this is speculation dammit!) will be destined to meet somebody that will help him the same way Flora helped SK. Or maybe Silke simply exists out of fate too for being a magic user.

Or maybe it's just a plothole. :P
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Post by Arresty »

Or in the end Miura comes up with this great ending that explains everything and leaves no plotholes. Cuase currently there are a few, depending on what speculation you use.
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Post by dos.azn »

Eldo wrote:
Femto wrote:
The_Paya wrote:It reminds me of Mozgul and his prayers.
Image

Wasn't there an Omake of Mozgus banging his head against the floor because of n00bs?
Back in DP, yes, gatsthehawk made that one about Nomad. :wink:

I wouldn't mind doing that pic again, but I prefer to use my own material.
u dumbass that 0make was mine
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Post by Buzkashi »

I thought it was gattsthehawk. Cause he came back and reposted it a little while ago.
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Post by dos.azn »

u mean the lord mozgus 0make with forsaken nomad smashing his head into the floor 1000 times a day cuz he thinks itll make him smarter? that was mine fool. u can even ask gattsthehawk after he comes back from his next terrorist assignment. or ask starnum
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Post by Arresty »

They just don't respect the gook. :P
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Post by dos.azn »

no theyre jus fools thinking they know what they talkin about when they werent even on digital panic as long
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Post by Buzkashi »

I was on DP since last june.... But I thought it was him cause he came by and said he was the one who did it.
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