About Guts' Dragonslayer viability

[eldur]

(Ok, I screwed it and posted the same video of "Guts vs Nightmare" that someone posted before, so I'll edit this and try a new topic instead).


After watching a lot of videos about medieval martial arts (specially Skallagrim), I realized that the Dragonslayer itself is not usable. In a few words; IF you could achieve to do a fast swing with it, you would fly in the same direction afterwards (or have your arms ripped, or just slip your grip and let the thing go its way). It's not only the amount of metal (and mass), but the fact that the "balance point" of the sword would be too far away from the grip.

Then I thought: maybe this thing is not made from steel, maybe it's titanium or something. But again, it would be too heavy still, and it wouldn't be damaged/repaired in the same way that we see in the manga.

A second idea came, though, that is more appealing to me: I work in tissue engineering, where we use materials in the shape of porous "scaffolds" (micro- and nanometric sponges, you could say). What if Godo realized how to inject really small air bubbles into the metal, making it structurally resistant but lighter in some parts of the sword? This could do the job in making it more balanced, even by its size and total mass (which would also be reduced).

[Sandman]

I think this belongs in the flaming pits of the Interstice but seeing how we are lacking members and intelligent thoughts I will respond as if I actually give a crap...

It was made out of elven iron (or iron mined by elves or elves just lived around in a cave shitting, pissing and cumming all over the cave which imbues the iron ore with elven properties... take your pick... no pun intended ) how much do you think that weighs??

Good luck finding it on the periodic table its right under retard-ium and shutthefuckup-ite.

[Aeriel]

Mr. Sandman here seems to be, indeed, a Crusher of Dreams.

I'm not sure air bubbles in steel would be desirable. I remember seeing a video about 3D printing of metal parts for satellites, and one of the worst problems they have (maybe it's fixed by now) was the presence of bubbles in the printed structures, which rendered them useless for their original purpose. So I'm actually inclined to believe that it may just be some unknown/magical property of iron mined by the elves.

[Good genius]

Metallic structure is not ideal compare to structure which has many bonds and knots in it.
Carbon fiber is an example, but stronger material may be required to compare with a real dragon-slaying sword.

[Starnum]

I understand what Eldur is talking about, but we've discussed the various properties and speculated on the structure and materials used to make the Dragon Slayer so many times over the past decade, that I can also kind of understand where Sandman is coming from, lol. With that said, how heavy do you think the Dragon Slayer really is? Most real swords are usually only, on average, 2-10 lbs. Let's assume Guts is at least 6-2, the DS probably only weighs like 50-100 lbs. Maybe a little more than that, but who really knows without actual specifications. Obviously you'd have to be superhuman (Which Guts clearly is, even without the Berserker Armor. It's not like this series is supposed to be realistic or anything.), to wield the thing like Guts does, but with the proper training and physique, I imagine it could be used efficiently as a weapon, albeit a slow and limited but still devastating one.

[ximbary]

I understand what Eldur is talking about, but we've discussed the various properties and speculated on the structure and materials used to make the Dragon Slayer so many times over the past decade, that I can also kind of understand where Sandman is coming from, lol. With that said, how heavy do you think the Dragon Slayer really is? Most real swords are usually only, on average, 2-10 lbs. Let's assume Guts is at least 6-2, the DS probably only weighs like 50-100 lbs. Maybe a little more than that, but who really knows without actual specifications. Obviously you'd have to be superhuman (Which Guts clearly is, even without the Berserker Armor. It's not like this series is supposed to be realistic or anything.), to wield the thing like Guts does, but with the proper training and physique, I imagine it could be used efficiently as a weapon, albeit a slow and limited but still devastating one.

I don't think anybody could use it in a proper way, even if it was just 50-100 lbs (22.5-45 kg for people from countries with non-retarded units). Because you know... weight is not important. What's far more important is the length and the distance to the swords center of mass.

The dragonslayer is very imbalanced and the center of mass is VERY far away from the shaft. The effective force you'd need in order to lift it by holding only its shaft is extremely high. You could lift it freely only if you held onto it near its center of mass. Otherwise You'd need to slide it across the floor to get it into motion. So it would be very useless.

Here you haz a pic graphics:

(No guarantee that this is anywhere close to correct, I only read some article about lever calculation. This is only a quick example to give you an idea about lever physics stuff)

If it is correct, this would result in 60-120 kg you'd need to lift and then swing. Try that, lol.

[Sandman]

WOW GOD HAND PLEASE MAKE IT STOP... now you are trying to make sense out of something that is fictional using pixels and fuzzy math... I have lost all hope... please make it go away... or not it is the most fun I have had on this forum in a while

[dialdfordesi]

We really cannot get into a talk about realism when it comes to Berserk. The degree of injuries Guts has had would cause him to have early degenerative changes. He was also out cold after losing his arm, which would have resulted in an elbow flexion contracture. He is not using a body powered harness or any method of suspension for his metal prosthetic, either. Having a monster bite you in the chest, you'd think you'd suffer a pneumothorax or rib fractures at the very least, but Guts had no chest tube placement or incentive spirometry either. Also Guts was using a super heavy sword as a kid. The tension could have caused some rotator cuff injury due to repetitive strain and subacromial impingement as well as messing up his growth plates.

[ximbary]

We really cannot get into a talk about realism when it comes to Berserk. The degree of injuries Guts has had would cause him to have early degenerative changes. He was also out cold after losing his arm, which would have resulted in an elbow flexion contracture. He is not using a body powered harness or any method of suspension for his metal prosthetic, either. Having a monster bite you in the chest, you'd think you'd suffer a pneumothorax or rib fractures at the very least, but Guts had no chest tube placement or incentive spirometry either. Also Guts was using a super heavy sword as a kid. The tension could have caused some rotator cuff injury due to repetitive strain and subacromial impingement as well as messing up his growth plates.

lol your signatur fits perfectly

[Starnum]

Yep, Desi is our resident physician. Even men of higher learning like doctors love Berserk! XD

[psi29a]

We really cannot get into a talk about realism when it comes to Berserk. The degree of injuries Guts has had would cause him to have early degenerative changes.

*Munches Cheetos*

Hey Doc... riddle me this, I woke up this morning and my dick was orange. ORANGE! WTF?!

*Munches more Cheetos*

[Sandman]

We really cannot get into a talk about realism when it comes to Berserk. The degree of injuries Guts has had would cause him to have early degenerative changes.

*Munches Cheetos*

Hey Doc... riddle me this, I woke up this morning and my dick was orange. ORANGE! WTF?!

*Munches more Cheetos*

psi29a just non verbally (indirectly whatever you want to call it) agreed with me

I think this belongs in the flaming pits of the Interstice but seeing how we are lacking members and intelligent thoughts I will respond as if I actually give a crap...

[dialdfordesi]

*Munches Cheetos*

Hey Doc... riddle me this, I woke up this morning and my dick was orange. ORANGE! WTF?!

*Munches more Cheetos*

Psi29a, I hope this post finds you while you are sitting down. I'm sorry to tell you that you have a serious case of NOT WASHING YOUR HANDS OR YOUR DICK, DAMN!

Take this and use it daily

You don't even need to use it on all 2000 body parts, just use it on your cheeto dick stinking ass.

[eldur]

Hahaha! Ok ok I get it. Berserk is pure fantasy, like the warhammer lore. Indeed, Guts should be more crippled than Griffith before becoming Femto.

Hope we don't see him die at any time soon.

[Good genius]

I don't think anybody could use it in a proper way, even if it was just 50-100 lbs (22.5-45 kg for people from countries with non-retarded units). Because you know... weight is not important. What's far more important is the length and the distance to the swords center of mass.

This is wrong, Guts' sword doesn't really pierce, smashing deals most if not all damage. Mass has EVERYTHING to do with how much Guts can put out.
It is like racket sport, you can't hit as hard using light racket but you can swing well(fast) with it, weight is not important for Griffith bc he pierces.

The dragonslayer is very imbalanced and the center of mass is VERY far away from the shaft. The effective force you'd need in order to lift it by holding only its shaft is extremely high. You could lift it freely only if you held onto it near its center of mass. Otherwise You'd need to slide it across the floor to get it into motion. So it would be very useless.

Again, to hit hard you want the head heavy. It means it is balanced.. for Guts.

[Sandman]

Its killing me... its so painful... fuck it, yes the dragon slayer is huge so the guy swing it would have to be huge and strong then any living being know to man... good thing Guts has pointy ears

[luciferian]

Eh, dont worry. Its valhyrian steel. At most, it weighs as much as a long sword or bastard sword.

In all honesty... it weighs far to much, being a slab of iron (as describe in the manga). Maybe Thor (the actor of the mountain, and the strongest man in the world) can wield it a few times, but even then, it would never be like guts and how he swing that monstrosity of a sword as if it were a bastard sword.

[somefatman]

At least Guts always swings the dragon slayer like it is massive. He uses long, full swings and direct stabs. He does not try to be fancy and wave it around like Griffith or Serpico. But still, the physics of the dragon slayer are complete bullshit. It is too heavy, the force exerted when swung would be to much for a human to hold onto or keep his feet planted as there would not be enough friction. Even accepting magical super hands and feet, you would never be able to swing it anywhere near as fast as Guts does due to all the inertia. I think everyone needs to just accept that it is fiction and just enjoy it.

[Sandman]

glad we are on the same page, and I do get what you are swaying about Guts using it like it is super heavy, I am glad Miura still left some realism in the manga

I still say it is because Guts has point elven type ears

[psi29a]

Someone made one, a realistic one that can be used to cut/smash shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfOAgKA7h7g

[Sandman]

Someone made one, a realistic one that can be used to cut/smash shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfOAgKA7h7g

That was pretty cool but just goes to show that it cannot be done without cutting corners

Would have liked to see him try a horizontal slice but I bet that would have been almost impossible... call in HE-MAN to see what it can really do

Just think what GODO had to go through to make that fucking thing with out welders or sandpaper or grinders... fuck hurts me just thinking about it

Liked his video over Man of Arms videos he was funny and showed his mistakes the grinding the handle without gloves... safety first mother fuckers