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Rolos wrote:
I don't think any member of the Neo Hawks classifies as an equivalent for Gutts.
Sure, he seems to be Griffith's right-hand man, but their relation is completely different.
Zodd could get killed a thousand times and Griffith wouldn't feel a thing. Sure, he would probably acknowledge it as a great loss, after all, Zodd is very useful to him, but that's about it.
In the original band of the hawk, everyone knew Griffith would go out of his way to protect Gutts, even if it went in direct contradiction to whatever he was scheming.
They all saw how, from the very beginning, Gutts was the only one who treated Griffith as a fellow human, not just some untouchable saint or hero.
In the Neo-Band of the Hawk, only Sonia has a relation with Griffith that could be considered remotely similar.
Though they may not have the same relationship, I see Zodd definitely sharing certain similarities to Guts in regards to his role that he serves under Griffith.
And I wouldn't say Griffith went out of his way to protect Guts, considering he put Guts on the front-line of basically every campaign.....along with making Guts handle all his dirty work. Of course realizing how important Guts was to him as a soldier (and perhaps even friend), Griffith did show a willingness to put himself in harms way to keep from losing him (e.g. 1st raid and 1st encounter with Zodd, and 1st/2nd duels with Guts). But I wouldn't classifying any of that as being protective....
P.S: I honestly don't think Griffith gives one flying f#ck about Sonia.
Well, the way I see it, he asked Gutts to do all those things because he trusted him.
My point was that Gutts and Griffith were practically pals, and that Griffith genuinely cared for Gutts well-being, he didn't put himself in harm's way just because he considered Gutts to be useful.
I agree with you on the Sonia part, its kinda obvious for everyone outside the story that Griffith doesn't give a shit about her, but keeps her close because she is useful to him.
The one thing their relation has in common is that she treats him with familiarity, something no other member of the Neo-Hawks would dare to do.
Let me put it this way:
Gutts = Familiarity + Right-hand man = pal
Sonia = Familiarity = close follower
Zodd = Right hand man = close follower
I think you need to add one more element to this. I'd make it Guts = Familiarity + Right-hand man + someone he care about = pal
In other words, there's an element to Guts and Griffith's interactions that not even Zodd and Sonia together have.
Though I do agree that in many ways Zodd in the Neo Band of the Hawk fills the same function as Guts did in the old one.
Istvan wrote:I think you need to add one more element to this. I'd make it Guts = Familiarity + Right-hand man + someone he care about = pal
In other words, there's an element to Guts and Griffith's interactions that not even Zodd and Sonia together have.
Though I do agree that in many ways Zodd in the Neo Band of the Hawk fills the same function as Guts did in the old one.
That pretty much nails it IMHO. Sure Zodd is the spearhead of the Neo Hawks, just like Guts was for the old Band. But Guts was special to Griffith, in that he would gladly - without hesitation - risk his own life for Guts (i.e. in the first confrontation with Zodd). Something he wouldn't do / have done for anyone else. Sure Griffith wouldn't like to lose Zodd of Sonia, because that would mean he would lose a vital party of his army. But losing Guts (at the time) would have ment losing a vital part of himself.
Istvan wrote:I think you need to add one more element to this. I'd make it Guts = Familiarity + Right-hand man + someone he care about = pal
In other words, there's an element to Guts and Griffith's interactions that not even Zodd and Sonia together have.
Though I do agree that in many ways Zodd in the Neo Band of the Hawk fills the same function as Guts did in the old one.
That pretty much nails it IMHO. Sure Zodd is the spearhead of the Neo Hawks, just like Guts was for the old Band. But Guts was special to Griffith, in that he would gladly - without hesitation - risk his own life for Guts (i.e. in the first confrontation with Zodd). Something he wouldn't do / have done for anyone else. Sure Griffith wouldn't like to lose Zodd of Sonia, because that would mean he would lose a vital party of his army. But losing Guts (at the time) would have ment losing a vital part of himself.
Lets not forget this is the same guy who condemned Guts to a horrible death and eternal damnation, while violently raping (his lover)/taunting him in the process.
I made the point earlier that Griffith's value in Guts as a soldier and asset in allowing him to get where he needed to accomplish his dream, definitely contributed IMO to Griffith risking his own well being for Guts sake. I'm not denying that he did share some personal feelings for the guy, but once Griffith got to where he needed to get to (thus no longer requiring Guts services)...we all know what happened next.....
I think The Prince is onto something.
I think Griffith made it perfectly clear just how much he thought of Gutz (and Caska) during his alone-time speech with the princess. Anyone following him, latched onto his dream and forsaking their own could never be a friend or an equal(that's how i understood it). That means Gutz, and everyone else. I think Griffith has more respect for Gutz now that he's actively seeking out his own dream than he did before(which is why he doesn't kill him when he has multiple chances). Griffith saw Gutz as a tool to be used, a brick layer on his path to Kingdom. He also made it perfectly clear that he would trample and destroy anyone's dream if it got in the way of his dream.
That is why he refused to let Gutz leave, and had to fight him. He needed Gutz, and Gutz leaving(to seek out his dream), would get in the way of Griffith realizing his own dream, so he needed to stamp out Gutz dream. However... Gutz was stronger, and he ended up stamping out Griffith's dream. It also caused(causality, remember ?) all the events to fall into place that lead to the Eclipse. 5 bucks says that had Gutz stayed, Griffith would have ended up as King eventually without all the death, he never would have lost it all.
So now, with all that said... it's time for some more craziness. After i go to the bathroom, get myself another mountain dew, set my fan up, and loosen the laces of my boots..................................................
Okay, now that that's done, let the craziness ensue.
So. Gutz is king. His first oder of business is to have his buddies brought from Elfheim. Everyone except Ishidoro doesn't mind. He hates it because he'd started a business making and producing quality lolicon and yuri. It was a big hit in Chuder and Ys, he had a broad market, but had far too many requests for yaoi than he wanted to make material for. Surprise surprise, almost all the yaoi requests came from a certain noble-zombie from Chuder. I'll leave you to guess what noble-zombie with a hole in his head that may be.
However, while his friends were en-route, a stranger appears in Gutz castle. Roland Deschain of Gilead. "Long Days and Plesant Nights!" Roland greets Gutz as he's strolling the castle, looking for the hook attachment for his proestic hand. You see, Slan wanted to role-play pirates that night, but that can't happen without the eye patch and hook attachment. She is a bitch when it comes to staying in-character. It was also he idea that they shouldn't have a safeword, said it would bring more excitement, and keep it more realistic.
Gutz stops and goes, "What are you doing here ? And who are you ? OOO, nice hat."
The Gunslinger says, "I'm here to find and kill the Crimson King."
Gutz pauses for a moment, and goes, "You mean... Griffith in his demon form ? What was it called again.... ahh Femto, yeah. He's dead."
Roland blind, "Dead ? But how ? I was supposed to kill him. Ohh well. Have you seen the Dark Tower ?"
Gutz ponders and goes, "Ohh yeah, I know where a Black Tower is! But I burned it down to rescue Griffith."
Roland growled and went, "Not Black Tower, Dark Tower."
But then Gutz cuts him off and goes, "Look, i am busy here. Talk to Sir Owen or Sir Laban, and they will build you a freakin black tower." and then Gutz runs off searching for the lost attachment.
Roland decides to stay in the castle for a few days.
The next day, Gutz buddies show up, and move in to the castle as well. Caska Farnse, and Scherike are set up in the same tower, that everyone in the whole kingdom jokingly calls "The Harem". However, all is not well in the Gutz household. Lady Charlottle finds herself becoming repulsed by Gutz' severed limb. She knew she couldn't deal with it when one night at dinner Gutz said to her, "Hey, go get me a beer." and she yelled, "Sickening Stupid Stump of a Silly Sliced off Arm!"
That night while they were asleep in bed, Charlotte snaps and decides to stab Gutz in his sleep. So, she pulls her knife and sinks the blade into his chest. Gutz wakes up and goes, "What the hell are you doing ? Women only stab me before the sex! And besides, look at me, I fought freakin demons, you think a little dagger is going to... urk!" She stabbed him again, and then leaving the knife in, ran away. Slan slept through it all(she was wore out).
So, Gutz pulls the knife out, and goes chasing after Lady Charlotte.
She runs all the way up to the, he he, Harem to hide from him. But, Gutz isn't afraid of a few women, and chases her up there. Shocked at the sight of Gutz, covered in blood and naked, the girls all start to scream. It was then Roland charges in to see what's happen, "What the hell is goin' on...." and that's he sees her.... Lady Farnze, in a small see-through nighty. Everyone starts shouting at eachother.
Gutz is trying to corner Charlotte going, "You wanna see how it feels to get stabbed!"
While Farnze is yelling, "For the love of God you're scaring the poor woman to death!"
While Scherike is yelling, "Ohh my, you need someone to banage up your wounds you big strong man!"
While Evarella is yelling, "Caaaaan you feel, the love tonight! It is where we are!"
While Caska is yelling "OOOOOOO AHHHHHHH OOOOOO"
And it's one of those profound moments where there is a sudden silence just as you say the dumbest thing. Everyone suddenly stops right as Roland goes, "Ohh my lord, I would so come comalla all over her face."
There is a long eerie silence as everyone turns to look at the Gunslinger, broken only when he says, "fuck".
Roderick and Serpico, who were standing in the doorway both say to Roland at the same time:
Roderick, "That's my wife you're talking about!"
Serpico, "That's my job you son of a bitch!"
Then Gutz says to Serpico, "Dude, she's your sister!"
Roderick says to the Gunslinger, "I challenge thee, fiend, to a duel!"
So, they meet inthe courtyard for the duel. Roderick draws his sword and takes a stance. Roland pulls one of his pistols and shoots him.
It wasn't until Gutz convinced Charlotte that he would only wear the mechanical hand around her, so she wouldn't be so grossed out by the stump, that they went back to bed. It was there they saw something aweful. Slan had exploded into a pile of guts, and in the pile of guts law... Femto Griffith!
"So Gutz, how do you like me now ? Still want to play pirates ?" Griffith says with a laugh.
Gutz turns into berserk mode and jumps at him with the knife. Griffith blocks it easy with his wing and sents Gutz flying against the wall.
It was then Roland's Ka-Powers started tingling and lead up up to Gutz' bedroom. He literally walks in on the double-rape from hell. Griffith stops and makes eye contact with The Gunslinger, and their gazes lock for an eternal moment until Roland yells, "The Crimson King!!!"
"Never dance with a girl who's older brothers have knife scars." - Matrim Cauthon
Born_Loser wrote:I think The Prince is onto something.
I think Griffith made it perfectly clear just how much he thought of Gutz (and Caska) during his alone-time speech with the princess. Anyone following him, latched onto his dream and forsaking their own could never be a friend or an equal(that's how i understood it). That means Gutz, and everyone else. I think Griffith has more respect for Gutz now that he's actively seeking out his own dream than he did before(which is why he doesn't kill him when he has multiple chances). Griffith saw Gutz as a tool to be used, a brick layer on his path to Kingdom. He also made it perfectly clear that he would trample and destroy anyone's dream if it got in the way of his dream.
That is why he refused to let Gutz leave, and had to fight him. He needed Gutz, and Gutz leaving(to seek out his dream), would get in the way of Griffith realizing his own dream, so he needed to stamp out Gutz dream. However... Gutz was stronger, and he ended up stamping out Griffith's dream. It also caused(causality, remember ?) all the events to fall into place that lead to the Eclipse. 5 bucks says that had Gutz stayed, Griffith would have ended up as King eventually without all the death, he never would have lost it all.
See, I always held this against Griffith as well. It may have been because Gatts left that Griffith's dream was crushed (at least until he became a God Hand), but I believe it was Griffith's fault Gatts left. It was also my belief that it was because of what Gatts heard Griffith saying to princess Charlotte. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. He said that if any man were to truly be his friend, that he would have to be his equal, and have his own dream, and that he would do whatever it takes to reach that goal, even if it meant to trample on him and his own dream. I believe that Gatts wanted to be Griffith's true friend and equal, and that's when he first realized that he had to leave. Who knows what would have happened if Gatts hadn't heard Griffith say that. You could tell by his expression how much of an impact that speech made on him. He didn't even go talk to Griffith after that, and almost immediately left, trying to sneak off in the night and all. So in a way it was Griffith's own fault, for having such high standards, heh.
Born_Loser wrote:I think The Prince is onto something.
I think Griffith made it perfectly clear just how much he thought of Gutz (and Caska) during his alone-time speech with the princess. Anyone following him, latched onto his dream and forsaking their own could never be a friend or an equal(that's how i understood it). That means Gutz, and everyone else. I think Griffith has more respect for Gutz now that he's actively seeking out his own dream than he did before(which is why he doesn't kill him when he has multiple chances). Griffith saw Gutz as a tool to be used, a brick layer on his path to Kingdom. He also made it perfectly clear that he would trample and destroy anyone's dream if it got in the way of his dream.
That is why he refused to let Gutz leave, and had to fight him. He needed Gutz, and Gutz leaving(to seek out his dream), would get in the way of Griffith realizing his own dream, so he needed to stamp out Gutz dream. However... Gutz was stronger, and he ended up stamping out Griffith's dream. It also caused(causality, remember ?) all the events to fall into place that lead to the Eclipse. 5 bucks says that had Gutz stayed, Griffith would have ended up as King eventually without all the death, he never would have lost it all.
So now, with all that said... it's time for some more craziness. After i go to the bathroom, get myself another mountain dew, set my fan up, and loosen the laces of my boots..................................................
Okay, now that that's done, let the craziness ensue.
So. Gutz is king. His first oder of business is to have his buddies brought from Elfheim. Everyone except Ishidoro doesn't mind. He hates it because he'd started a business making and producing quality lolicon and yuri. It was a big hit in Chuder and Ys, he had a broad market, but had far too many requests for yaoi than he wanted to make material for. Surprise surprise, almost all the yaoi requests came from a certain noble-zombie from Chuder. I'll leave you to guess what noble-zombie with a hole in his head that may be.
However, while his friends were en-route, a stranger appears in Gutz castle. Roland Deschain of Gilead. "Long Days and Plesant Nights!" Roland greets Gutz as he's strolling the castle, looking for the hook attachment for his proestic hand. You see, Slan wanted to role-play pirates that night, but that can't happen without the eye patch and hook attachment. She is a bitch when it comes to staying in-character. It was also he idea that they shouldn't have a safeword, said it would bring more excitement, and keep it more realistic.
Gutz stops and goes, "What are you doing here ? And who are you ? OOO, nice hat."
The Gunslinger says, "I'm here to find and kill the Crimson King."
Gutz pauses for a moment, and goes, "You mean... Griffith in his demon form ? What was it called again.... ahh Femto, yeah. He's dead."
Roland blind, "Dead ? But how ? I was supposed to kill him. Ohh well. Have you seen the Dark Tower ?"
Gutz ponders and goes, "Ohh yeah, I know where a Black Tower is! But I burned it down to rescue Griffith."
Roland growled and went, "Not Black Tower, Dark Tower."
But then Gutz cuts him off and goes, "Look, i am busy here. Talk to Sir Owen or Sir Laban, and they will build you a freakin black tower." and then Gutz runs off searching for the lost attachment.
Roland decides to stay in the castle for a few days.
The next day, Gutz buddies show up, and move in to the castle as well. Caska Farnse, and Scherike are set up in the same tower, that everyone in the whole kingdom jokingly calls "The Harem". However, all is not well in the Gutz household. Lady Charlottle finds herself becoming repulsed by Gutz' severed limb. She knew she couldn't deal with it when one night at dinner Gutz said to her, "Hey, go get me a beer." and she yelled, "Sickening Stupid Stump of a Silly Sliced off Arm!"
That night while they were asleep in bed, Charlotte snaps and decides to stab Gutz in his sleep. So, she pulls her knife and sinks the blade into his chest. Gutz wakes up and goes, "What the hell are you doing ? Women only stab me before the sex! And besides, look at me, I fought freakin demons, you think a little dagger is going to... urk!" She stabbed him again, and then leaving the knife in, ran away. Slan slept through it all(she was wore out).
So, Gutz pulls the knife out, and goes chasing after Lady Charlotte.
She runs all the way up to the, he he, Harem to hide from him. But, Gutz isn't afraid of a few women, and chases her up there. Shocked at the sight of Gutz, covered in blood and naked, the girls all start to scream. It was then Roland charges in to see what's happen, "What the hell is goin' on...." and that's he sees her.... Lady Farnze, in a small see-through nighty. Everyone starts shouting at eachother.
Gutz is trying to corner Charlotte going, "You wanna see how it feels to get stabbed!"
While Farnze is yelling, "For the love of God you're scaring the poor woman to death!"
While Scherike is yelling, "Ohh my, you need someone to banage up your wounds you big strong man!"
While Evarella is yelling, "Caaaaan you feel, the love tonight! It is where we are!"
While Caska is yelling "OOOOOOO AHHHHHHH OOOOOO"
And it's one of those profound moments where there is a sudden silence just as you say the dumbest thing. Everyone suddenly stops right as Roland goes, "Ohh my lord, I would so come comalla all over her face."
There is a long eerie silence as everyone turns to look at the Gunslinger, broken only when he says, "fuck".
Roderick and Serpico, who were standing in the doorway both say to Roland at the same time:
Roderick, "That's my wife you're talking about!"
Serpico, "That's my job you son of a bitch!"
Then Gutz says to Serpico, "Dude, she's your sister!"
Roderick says to the Gunslinger, "I challenge thee, fiend, to a duel!"
So, they meet inthe courtyard for the duel. Roderick draws his sword and takes a stance. Roland pulls one of his pistols and shoots him.
It wasn't until Gutz convinced Charlotte that he would only wear the mechanical hand around her, so she wouldn't be so grossed out by the stump, that they went back to bed. It was there they saw something aweful. Slan had exploded into a pile of guts, and in the pile of guts law... Femto Griffith!
"So Gutz, how do you like me now ? Still want to play pirates ?" Griffith says with a laugh.
Gutz turns into berserk mode and jumps at him with the knife. Griffith blocks it easy with his wing and sents Gutz flying against the wall.
It was then Roland's Ka-Powers started tingling and lead up up to Gutz' bedroom. He literally walks in on the double-rape from hell. Griffith stops and makes eye contact with The Gunslinger, and their gazes lock for an eternal moment until Roland yells, "The Crimson King!!!"
Once the war was over, Gutts stopped being necessary. He was just a plus, someone he could always count on, but not vital to the competition of Griffith's dream. Without Gutts, he could have easily obtained Kingship on his own.
He wanted him to stay for reasons completely unrelated to his dream.
One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.
~Diogenes of Sinope
I want to disagree.
You think of Griffith as someone who had little regard for his friends. I think he fell in love with his own image and truly thought of himself as that which most others percieved him, something of a elegant hero. Guts was the one person where he could escape being this person that is essentially forced upon him. I think Guts meant a lot to Griffith, even if he (Griffith) didn't realize it.
With Guts, he could speak his mind and let go of being the the leader of the Band of the Hawk. He couldn't do that with anyone else. He cared for Caska, as well as the others, though, he would still accept their deaths because he wanted to acquire more fame. Caska never really got to truly know the real Griffith like Guts did, she could only watch because he never opened himself up to her. How could he? When he had to strive to be perfect, and she saw him as that.
I don't think Griffith was all that bad and impersonal. The reason for him raping Caska could be that the transformation changed his character, reflecting on more evil will towards those he once cared for.
I don't really blame him for sacrificing the band of the Hawk, given what he had gone through.
Hmm.
So I may be wrong about my earlier suggestion. Griffith really did care for Gutz. That what the sacrifice is all about, right ? Safricifing those you love and care about the most ?
"Never dance with a girl who's older brothers have knife scars." - Matrim Cauthon
I dunno what's going on with my F's and C's. Maybe I should replace all my F's with C's, and then all my C's with F's, and see how long it takes people to notife ?
"Never dance with a girl who's older brothers have knife scars." - Matrim Cauthon
Am I the only one that finds that picture desperately cheesy and homoerotic? I mean, c'mon, that right there makes Berserk look like either a yaoi or a shojo. While it may have elements of both, it is definitley something more.
On another note, Casca will decide that men have been so horrible to her over the years and decide that Farnese is the only person who truly cared for her without wanting something in return (at least from Casca's perspective) and so decides that she will forsake Guts' love and pursue a relationship with Farnese. Roderick decides to capitalize on this turn of events and works it in his favor to have Casca enjoy him and his company as well. So the perfect threesome commenses, and Guts is left behind to be his badass self with only a couple of skinny 13 year olds to love and follow him around, one as a fatherly figure, one as a sexual figure. And where is Serpico during all this you ask? Well, he is basically endentured to Farnese forever, but just tries to ignore the threesome going on constantly because it's just too much for his sensible nature. Magnifico is just happy that his friend is now his brother in law because Farnese and Roderick do get married.
The Herald wrote:Am I the only one that finds that picture desperately cheesy and homoerotic? I mean, c'mon, that right there makes Berserk look like either a yaoi or a shojo. While it may have elements of both, it is definitley something more.
Only if you take the picture in isolation. In context, I thought it was extremely moving and appropriate.
Obviously in context it's important to the manga, but in isolation, like having it as one's desktop wallpaper it's pretty silly. My desktop wallpaper is that spread from when they're walking on the beach.
I'm posting this here because I classify anything involving a continuation of the Berserk anime that doesn't involve an official announcement by a reputable source (Miura himself, OLM, ADV, etc.) as a "stupid theory," but there are a handful of blurry screenshots (they look like someone took a picture of a TV screen with their cell phone) of what people are claiming is either a new Berserk anime or cut scenes from a new Berserk video game floating around various unsavory parts of the Internet.
Once again, I have no source besides a couple of message board posts here and there for these, so this should be taken with about a boulder of salt and treated as exactly what it is: a spurious rumor.
Berserk: The Abridged Series: Beating a dead horse with another dead horse.
WOW SO THERES REALLY GONNA BE A SECOND SEASON THANKS HBI@K FOR CONFIRMING THIS FOR US YOUR SO COOL!!!!!!!!! HEY WHEN IT COMES OUT CAN YOU PLZ DO A ABRIDGED OF IT OK THANKX
It looks more like a PS3 sorta game, but if it is another season, well, I think I've fallen in love again with Berserk. But, like I said, any new season of Berserk would not look like the first season. I agree with hbi2k, especially on not getting my hopes up.
I didn't particularly like any of the screen-shots. CG isn't normally the best thing to add to an anime, its usually handed poorly.
Besides, Caska's face looks too broad in that picture. Miura's drawing style is nothing like that. His (female) faces are usually very thin.
It's like what they did to that new Saint Seiya prequel. I never really liked Saint Seiya, but at least its style was very characteristic, very unique. I respected that.
I hope those are just game screen-shots, a ps3 Berserk game would be awesome.
PD: Thanks for the pics Hbi!
One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.
~Diogenes of Sinope
It's hard to tell for sure, but as others have noted those images really look more like a video game than an anime. Assuming, of course, that they're real images and someone didn't just photoshop them or something.
