Berserk 291 - Prophetic Dreams

[Istvan]

As for the story, I think that the thing that really strikes me the most is Foss (yes, perhaps a different reaction from many other readers). I mean, the children (or others) having "prophetic" dreams, or Griffith having most people eating out of his hand are things that we've seen before or are at least unsurprising. Foss as he is now, however, really feels...not quite off, per se, but, very, very, very different. There were hints of the present persona the first time he resurfaced (in Volume 26 or 27, I believe), but now, Miura's writing and rendering of him seems to completely capture a wholly different set of mannerisms and body language. So much so that whenever I go back and reread the Golden Age arc, it feels like the old Foss is an altogether different character. I know that characters change and evolve in Berserk, but somehow, Foss' transformation seems particularly drastic, even compared to that of Farnese. It's inconceivable to me now that he would ever be or could have been a lethally conniving monster. I can buy that he'd never trifle with Griffith again, but somehow, it just feels like he's now a kind and concerned man whose primary preoccupations are the liberation of his kingdom and the protection (as much as he's capable of giving) of his people, even at personal cost. Given his earlier characterization, I would've imagined that he'd be among the very first to flee "City of the Damned" Windham rather than risk anything to reverse the flow of events. Anyone else feel the same way?

The fact that he was trying to kill Griffith doesn't mean that he was totally self-centered. I think he was somewhat like the queen, trying to preserve his way of life and the world as he knew it. Both then and now I would conjecture that he desires what's best for his country, is in fact loyal to Midland. Before he viewed Griffith as a threat (and Griffith put an end to that, converting him to a Griffith loyalist) and now the Kushans are an extreme threat, that he is once again working to oppose. Notice that in the Golden Age, Griffith controlled him with a threat to his daughter's life, not a threat to his own life. Nothing we've seen really shows him to be a personal coward.

[Wib]

Thank you my friend.

[absofflab]

Istvan wrote:

The fact that he was trying to kill Griffith doesn't mean that he was totally self-centered. I think he was somewhat like the queen, trying to preserve his way of life and the world as he knew it. Both then and now I would conjecture that he desires what's best for his country, is in fact loyal to Midland. Before he viewed Griffith as a threat (and Griffith put an end to that, converting him to a Griffith loyalist) and now the Kushans are an extreme threat, that he is once again working to oppose. Notice that in the Golden Age, Griffith controlled him with a threat to his daughter's life, not a threat to his own life. Nothing we've seen really shows him to be a personal coward.

While there's it's obvious that Foss was trying to preserve and even elevate his life of privilege (during the Golden Age arc), I find it hard to believe that his actions were anything but self-centered (or sociopathic); his actions certainly didn't demonstrate a desire to do what's right for his country. Foss (not-so-subtly) manipulated Count Julius to attempt an assassination on Griffith, and he fomented a second murderous conspiracy against Griffith after Guts killed Julius. That's not to say that others weren't planning or wanting to murder Griffith (given how much resentment the other nobles felt at Griffith's rapid ascent) but Foss was by far the most successful. All his scheming against Griffith was done in spite of the fact that Griffith and his Band of Hawks was the best thing to have happened to the Midland Army in 100 years. It was pretty to obvious to nearly everyone that Griffith had the best chance of striking a decisive blow against the Tudors; impeding Griffith's progress effectively meant impeding significant progress in the war. Recall that the lengthy war put a considerable strain on the people of Midland (since both human and material resources were being put to use in war rather than for maintaining proper infrastructure and the like) and by extension, straining the viability of the state. The earlier the war ended, the better it would've been for Midland. Which is presumably what a patriot would have wanted. The nobles who couldn't see or refused to acknowledge the significance of the Band of the Hawks were either disconnected from reality or, more likely, were more concerned about their own high positions than about the welfare of Midland. I'd say that Foss is clearly an example of the latter, in which case his actions should not be seen as those of someone who loves his country.

With respect to cowardice - think of it this way: nearly all of Foss' on-camera actions in that arc were motivated by fear. He feared the loss of prestige of nobles, and so wanted to stop the ascent of the Hawks. This then became a fear of Griffith, which led to his two plots against Griffith. He then feared for his daughter, and so he took part in the assassination of his queen and co-conspirator (hell, I think he might have actually set the fires himself, now that I think of it). It was an ever-escalating series of devious acts in which he engaged, all of which stemmed from fear. Again, this feels nothing like the sense I get of him now. There's much more to fear than there was back when Windham was a safe haven, and I have no doubt that he's fearful of the demonic monsters and the general state of chaos that's befallen the city. But he's stayed behind, and he's spearheading an underground resistance movement to restore his former state. Given the competence that he'd shown previously, I believe that he could have easily fled with his daughter at the first sign of real trouble and lived in safety. That he hasn't is an indicator of a current lack of cowardice.

[Istvan]

While there's it's obvious that Foss was trying to preserve and even elevate his life of privilege (during the Golden Age arc), I find it hard to believe that his actions were anything but self-centered (or sociopathic); his actions certainly didn't demonstrate a desire to do what's right for his country. Foss (not-so-subtly) manipulated Count Julius to attempt an assassination on Griffith, and he fomented a second murderous conspiracy against Griffith after Guts killed Julius. That's not to say that others weren't planning or wanting to murder Griffith (given how much resentment the other nobles felt at Griffith's rapid ascent) but Foss was by far the most successful. All his scheming against Griffith was done in spite of the fact that Griffith and his Band of Hawks was the best thing to have happened to the Midland Army in 100 years. It was pretty to obvious to nearly everyone that Griffith had the best chance of striking a decisive blow against the Tudors; impeding Griffith's progress effectively meant impeding significant progress in the war. Recall that the lengthy war put a considerable strain on the people of Midland (since both human and material resources were being put to use in war rather than for maintaining proper infrastructure and the like) and by extension, straining the viability of the state. The earlier the war ended, the better it would've been for Midland. Which is presumably what a patriot would have wanted. The nobles who couldn't see or refused to acknowledge the significance of the Band of the Hawks were either disconnected from reality or, more likely, were more concerned about their own high positions than about the welfare of Midland. I'd say that Foss is clearly an example of the latter, in which case his actions should not be seen as those of someone who loves his country.

But you are viewing his actions from the perspective of a 21st century individual, not a midle-ages aristocrat. Yes, for the country as a whole (interpreted as all the people in it), Griffith was a good thing. But from the perspective of an aristocrat who truly believes (as many of them did, especially those conspiring against Griffith) in the entire system of how aristocrats are naturally meant to rule, are meant by birth to be in charge, are naturally superior, etc. To someone with this perspective, Griffith would be viewed as a grave threat that must be destroyed. If your perspective of what is "good for Midland" actually translates to what is "good for the aristocrats", than Foss' actions make perfect sense. Note that even in the latest chapter, Charlott's survival is taken as evidence that the kingdom of Midland still exists. Because without a monarch the kingdom can't truly be said to exist. This is very similiar to the view of those (like Foss) in the conspiracy, and it's why they were so against Griffith. It's also why Griffith's goal was so incredibly ambitious, because many people during that time would have called the very idea blasphamy.

With respect to cowardice - think of it this way: nearly all of Foss' on-camera actions in that arc were motivated by fear. He feared the loss of prestige of nobles, and so wanted to stop the ascent of the Hawks. This then became a fear of Griffith, which led to his two plots against Griffith. He then feared for his daughter, and so he took part in the assassination of his queen and co-conspirator (hell, I think he might have actually set the fires himself, now that I think of it). It was an ever-escalating series of devious acts in which he engaged, all of which stemmed from fear. Again, this feels nothing like the sense I get of him now. There's much more to fear than there was back when Windham was a safe haven, and I have no doubt that he's fearful of the demonic monsters and the general state of chaos that's befallen the city. But he's stayed behind, and he's spearheading an underground resistance movement to restore his former state. Given the competence that he'd shown previously, I believe that he could have easily fled with his daughter at the first sign of real trouble and lived in safety. That he hasn't is an indicator of a current lack of cowardice.

Note however that he never acted out of fear for his own life. Fear for his way of life (a.k.a. aristocratic privilage), fear for his daughter's life, but never fear for his own. There's simply no evidence that he's a physical coward. Heck in this case, if he wishes to preserve/regain his way of life that would require opposing the Kushan's. Which is what he's doing.