Berserk 292 - Mist of Death

[Istvan]

Its not so much about giving him upgrades to fight the creatures... I think it will happen more because its been a while (and I'm sure its getting harder) to surprise us in fights with Guts. We've seen all his tricks, we've seen all his weapons and he's used them in about every way you can at this point. To keep things interesting both for us and for Miura to draw I could see him getting something like a hand upgrade. Its not about Shonnenizing it. Its about keeping things fresh fro the people who've been reading this year after year and know every way guts has to slash and stab.

Well that's what makes Guts so interesting. But if Guts wanted upgrades he would have taken the axe.

I thought he had an excellent point that it was better to stay with a weapon he was totally familiar with (and which worked quite well) then to switch to a more "powerful", magical weapon that he wasn't used to. Battle (especially the kinds of intense battles he gets into) isn't a place to be playing around with new weapons mixs. That's part of why (I presume) most of his "upgrades" have been simple or in line with what he already has.

[Vancore]

Yea, I couldn't imagine Guts picking a weapon that he's a novice at either just because its more powerful. I still expect him to get something of an upgrade though since the Elf lands is probably the only place left that they could get something extra to help fight against the apostles. Cause as we all well know the god hand members can still whip his ass... so the upgrade will probably allow him better control over the dwarvern armor so that it hurts him less.

[nullpo]

Gutts' weapon is more powerful than the axe. It was said earlier that there was something "strange" about the dragon slayer. The axe is going to go to Caska. It only makes sense. Assuming that she will still be able to fight at the level she did before, she isn't anywhere close to being in competition with everyone now. With her skill and the axe she will be able to immediately join in the fight and still be just as strong as everyone else. It only makes sense.

[Eldo]

It only makes sense. Assuming that she will still be able to fight at the level she did before, she isn't anywhere close to being in competition with everyone now. With her skill and the axe she will be able to immediately join in the fight and still be just as strong as everyone else. It only makes sense.

I don't think Casca will use the axe if she was to recover her memories and abilities. First of all, as mentioned previously, the familiarity of the weapon is important. Since Casca has been using swords throughout her battles, she isn't going to pick up the axe and use it proficiently. Secondly, she doesn't have the build to swing the axe around. An axe is a heavy weapon that it takes someone of Guts build to control efficiently when swinging the axe.

As for Guts getting an upgrade, he already has the Berserk armour. Sure, it's killing him, but it makes him practically undefeatable in battle. Unless that gets replaced, I would like to see the 'upgrade' be less powerful than the Berserk armour, which may seem like a downgrade, but it sure as hell doesn't try to kill him in the process when he uses it. Also, he has managed to harness Schierke's magic into his sword skills, which has managed to harm the Emperor. While it's a far cry from defeating Griffith, small baby steps are necessary at this stage.

[Aetherfukz]

Now that you mentioned the Berserk armor upgrade, I could see the Hanafubuku king disenchanting or blessing or whatever that armor so it doesn't take hold of Guts' spirit anymore but still powers him up physically. That would be a pretty huge upgrade to the armor, and although Guts himself wouldn't because any stronger because of it, he wouldn't have to risk his sanity and his friends life anymore when using the armor. And the elf king would probably be powerful enough to do such a feat.

[The Prince]

Now that you mentioned the Berserk armor upgrade, I could see the Hanafubuku king disenchanting or blessing or whatever that armor so it doesn't take hold of Guts' spirit anymore but still powers him up physically. That would be a pretty huge upgrade to the armor, and although Guts himself wouldn't because any stronger because of it, he wouldn't have to risk his sanity and his friends life anymore when using the armor. And the elf king would probably be powerful enough to do such a feat.

King Gunibufu should give Guts a pair of wings.

Also merely restoring Caska's sanity is a huge upgrade for Guts in itself. Nothing like a little nookie after mass slaughter.

[Istvan]

Now that you mentioned the Berserk armor upgrade, I could see the Hanafubuku king disenchanting or blessing or whatever that armor so it doesn't take hold of Guts' spirit anymore but still powers him up physically. That would be a pretty huge upgrade to the armor, and although Guts himself wouldn't because any stronger because of it, he wouldn't have to risk his sanity and his friends life anymore when using the armor. And the elf king would probably be powerful enough to do such a feat.

Seems like a cop out to me. I mean, after watching Guts struggle with a powerful magical artifact (the artifact in question being dangerous to the user's sanity) so that it can be used safely, to have somebody just cast a spell on it so that its safe would be incredibly cheap. A large part of of the power of Berserk is the constant struggle, that things aren't easy, there are no simple solutions. I have too much faith in Miura as an author to believe he'd do something like have the Elf King making the armor safe.

[The Prince]

Now that you mentioned the Berserk armor upgrade, I could see the Hanafubuku king disenchanting or blessing or whatever that armor so it doesn't take hold of Guts' spirit anymore but still powers him up physically. That would be a pretty huge upgrade to the armor, and although Guts himself wouldn't because any stronger because of it, he wouldn't have to risk his sanity and his friends life anymore when using the armor. And the elf king would probably be powerful enough to do such a feat.

Seems like a cop out to me. I mean, after watching Guts struggle with a powerful magical artifact (the artifact in question being dangerous to the user's sanity) so that it can be used safely, to have somebody just cast a spell on it so that its safe would be incredibly cheap. A large part of of the power of Berserk is the constant struggle, that things aren't easy, there are no simple solutions. I have too much faith in Miura as an author to believe he'd do something like have the Elf King making the armor safe.

THANK YOU!

I think the POV of people expecting (wanting) upgrades for Guts is exactly due to the fact that it is "tough" for the reader (not just Guts) to see Guts constantly struggle with having to face situations where the cards are constantly stacked against him. As far as Guts goes, though he's the ultimate badass, he has become a very sympathetic character that you find yourself constantly empathizing for.

For example....Reading through the latest couple arcs, I constantly found myself saying "if Guts could only get some down time to rest a bit.....or if only Caska could show some damn appreciation".

I know its weird, but just seeing the momentary grin on Gut's face, when the SK (on the beach) suggested the possibility of Caska regaining her sanity, made me happy.

In the case of Guts getting an arm upgrade or his armor "un-cursed" would allow the reader a point of comfort, knowing that these things will allow Guts to "struggle" less....and therefore the reader to struggle less as well. But I agree with Istvan that in doing so Miura would be selling out.

[Aetherfukz]

THANK YOU!

I think the POV of people expecting (wanting) upgrades for Guts is exactly due to the fact that it is "tough" for the reader (not just Guts) to see Guts constantly struggle with having to face situations where the cards are constantly stacked against him. As far as Guts goes, though he's the ultimate badass, he has become a very sympathetic character that you find yourself constantly empathizing for.

You dude need to read more. Did I start the whole "Guts needs Hanafubuku Upgrades" debate? Nope, I also said that he shouldn't get the eye and arm back because that would be cheap. The only thing I could see, IF Miura uses the copout of giving Guts any upgrades at all, would be dispelling or lessening the curse of the Berserker armor.

[azn_l10n]

Well...
I actually think that something will happen with the armor...
or a new armor will be acquired...

I don't think that it'll be as extreme as removing the curse...but something...
I believe...*gasp*...that Gutts may actually come back with a white armor...

Why do I say that? Well, the whitening of the hair must be symbolic somehow...
He is possibly the white hawk afterall where as Griffith is the black...but the world sees something else...

It will be cool if somehow, Gatts gets a white armor like the Skull Knight (who in colored versions is more so of a light blue color)...
Something that'll put him on par with the Skull Knight seems plausible...
Perhaps a new armor (allowing him to cast aside the Berserker) that also comes with the possibility of him completely losing his human self..
and taking hte path of the Skull Knight directly...afterall...the Skull Knight has a fairy scent as well as was a previous user of the SAME berserker armor...

Don't get me wrong, it won't directly be a cop out, there could be many negative issues that makes us wish Gatts does not turn inhuman like the Skull Knight...
BUT IF...there was an upgrade...I see the upgrade as one that brings him more in line with SK...

[Aetherfukz]

I don't think a white armor would be fitting for Guts at all. Maybe he is the Hawk of Light from the prophecy, but the whole thing is that he is the "good guy" dressed in black, followed by monsters and despised by local folks, while the "bad guy" Griffith is all shiny and sparkly and loved by everyone. Such is the magic of Berserk.

And anyway if Guts is still followed around by creatures of the night after the visit to Elfhelm, he will still use black armor. Because the whole reason of his black armor is that he is fighting in the night and so doesn't stand out as a huge silhouette of whiteness.

[Winter]

Personally i dont think anyting will happen to guts's armor. They had that whole chapter "Howl from the darkness". Where u clearly see, on page 7, that the "beast" in the armor is choosing to be subordinate to guts's will for now. So i can only guess this means guts can use the power of the berserker without having to worry about getting lost in the madness. obviously this is only a temporary solution but it would seem wierd to me to have that whole thing only to have guts land on the elf island a day later and have the elf king fix everything. I have a feeling that the meeting with the elf king will be a lot like the meeting with flora, he will just help guts on the next step of his journey. Once caska regains her mind guts wont have to look over her and i dont see him settling down and having little face smashers anytime soon means he is going to have to start going after griffith.....and we are also going to see what the whole "What you wish for may not be what she wishes for." thing from chapter 238 is about, which im assuming is that caska will not want to seek revenge on griffith like guts does since when they meet on the hill of swords she was reaching out to griffith but it seemed couldnt get too close because of the brand.

[Death&Rebirth]

Well...
I actually think that something will happen with the armor...
or a new armor will be acquired...

I don't think that it'll be as extreme as removing the curse...but something...
I believe...*gasp*...that Gutts may actually come back with a white armor...

Why do I say that? Well, the whitening of the hair must be symbolic somehow...
He is possibly the white hawk afterall where as Griffith is the black...but the world sees something else...

The small group of white hair in guts head only symbolizes that he is aging faster thanks to the strain he endures during all the fights. Having to go berserk a couple o times with that armor is taking it's toll.

[The Prince]

THANK YOU!

I think the POV of people expecting (wanting) upgrades for Guts is exactly due to the fact that it is "tough" for the reader (not just Guts) to see Guts constantly struggle with having to face situations where the cards are constantly stacked against him. As far as Guts goes, though he's the ultimate badass, he has become a very sympathetic character that you find yourself constantly empathizing for.

You dude need to read more. Did I start the whole "Guts needs Hanafubuku Upgrades" debate? Nope, I also said that he shouldn't get the eye and arm back because that would be cheap. The only thing I could see, IF Miura uses the copout of giving Guts any upgrades at all, would be dispelling or lessening the curse of the Berserker armor.

NO, you didn't start the debate, but you sure as hell involved yourself in it. You gave your opinion, as I gave mine.....Damned if I happen to disagree. But unlike some, I at least made the effort to explain just where I was coming from.

- First off, why are you upset at me?

I wasn't even referring to you. The reason I used the word(s) "cop-out" or "selling out" was a reiteration of someone elses assertion. An assertion of which was not meant to be insulting to begin with, unless you're Miura.

- Second, don't be so thin-skinned. Your example with the armor just so happened to be what was used by Istvan whom I was citing. Do you really think I was trying to make things personal?

As far as upgrades go, though I don't see it happening IMO, "uncursing" the Berserker armor would be most acceptable, when compared to any regeneration of Gut's body-parts.

[Istvan]

Well...
I actually think that something will happen with the armor...
or a new armor will be acquired...

I don't think that it'll be as extreme as removing the curse...but something...
I believe...*gasp*...that Gutts may actually come back with a white armor...

Nah. We've had chapters and chapters of build up on the Berserker armor, and Guts learning to deal with it. If he just suddenly got a new set of armor, it would feel like all that build up was pointless and a waste of time. I don't see Miura writing his story that sloppily.

[Vancore]

When did Guts get the strip of white strip of hair anyway? I assumed it was old age too but if its from something that happened I wouldn't mind knowing about it since I can't remember when he started being drawn like that. Progress of another year or so maybe? I mean.. he is pushing 30 and all =P

Well I'm hoping that Guts gets something extra off this trip besides maybe getting Caska back... not that thats bad and all but if they really need something else to help them fight the GodHand and its not in Elfheim well.. I guess that would be the next adventure they take while Griffith shows us just what type of king he is. Not really so bad.

[War Machine]

I think it was right after waking from the armor's trance the first time he used it against Grumbeld.

[The Prince]

When did Guts get the strip of white strip of hair anyway? I assumed it was old age too but if its from something that happened I wouldn't mind knowing about it since I can't remember when he started being drawn like that. Progress of another year or so maybe? I mean.. he is pushing 30 and all =P

Well I'm hoping that Guts gets something extra off this trip besides maybe getting Caska back... not that thats bad and all but if they really need something else to help them fight the GodHand and its not in Elfheim well.. I guess that would be the next adventure they take while Griffith shows us just what type of king he is. Not really so bad.

Came after first dawning the Berserker Armor, I believe you notice it for the first time while he is on the beach.

Being in his early 20's and having it occur literally overnight, suggests it being more d/t acute stress (rather than aging)from the strain of wearing the cursed armor and the brutal beating he took from Crystal/Diamond(?) Dragon Apostle....the actual name eludes me at the moment. He also was severely burnt at somepoint as well during their tussel.

[azn_l10n]

You actually see Gatt's white hair...
When the bereserker helmet recedes
after he saves Caska and Farnese from the tentacle beast during the attack on the witch...

Perhaps getting rid of the Berserker armor is farfetch afterall as the struggle with it was built upon over and over again...

But what I really was getting at is not so much the armor...
but that whatever upgrade Gatts gets may be in line with the path of the SK...

Afterall...they both follow the same path thus far including the wearing of the Berserker..

Now, this is meant to be silly but imagine a horse...

[Starnum]

I mean.. he is pushing 30 and all =P

Nah dude, he's not pushing 30 at all. Gatts is still in his early 20's, like around 22.

[The Herald]

I personally never thought that the Elf King would give Guts any kind of upgrade. It would seem too stereotypical for a Japanese manga. I think that it's more likely that the Elf King will give Guts allies, which in some ways is more like an American fantasy like Dragonlance, but with the way things are written and enfolding in Berserk it seems more likely to take that direction. That way Guts can still struggle and then we get some new people. Griffith already did it, and without trying to sound cheesy, there are strength in numbers, and Griffith has a whole country plus most of the apostles on his side.

[The Prince]

I personally never thought that the Elf King would give Guts any kind of upgrade. It would seem too stereotypical for a Japanese manga. I think that it's more likely that the Elf King will give Guts allies, which in some ways is more like an American fantasy like Dragonlance, but with the way things are written and enfolding in Berserk it seems more likely to take that direction. That way Guts can still struggle and then we get some new people. Griffith already did it, and without trying to sound cheesy, there are strength in numbers, and Griffith has a whole country plus most of the apostles on his side.

Perhaps an army of wizards and elves........

[dialdfordesi]

I believe that the encounter with the elf king will not go how we expect it to. Maybe the elf king will refuse to help a branded person because that would possibly put the island in danger. After all, Griffith did target Flora because she could one day use magic to fight Griffith.

[Aetherfukz]

I believe that the encounter with the elf king will not go how we expect it to. Maybe the elf king will refuse to help a branded person because that would possibly put the island in danger. After all, Griffith did target Flora because she could one day use magic to fight Griffith.

While what you say maybe true, there has to be something done about Caska, and done soon. Since the second eclipse now she is nothing more than a burden both for Guts and the reader, and a constant reminder of what was once a really awesome character, and woman. She can't even say a single word for Gods/Guts sake!

Thinking back at the 100man slaughter, the rescue of Griffith (and the night before ) and of course, the eclipse itself, those parts for me were ones of the best storytelling and character development in Berserk. Before Guts was all alone fighting just to survive, but slowly then he started to care for someone other than his sword. He had a very brief glimpse of what could have been a happy life, but after that things turned into living hell for our favorite hero.
Slicing of his own arm in a desperate attempt to save his girl still is one of the, if not the, most powerful moment(s) of Berserk and fiction in general to me.

Frankly, having Caska along is getting old. She can't articulate her needs, she thoroughly despises Guts since the almost-rape-incident (which I could totally understand from Guts' point of view), in short she's nothing but a burden to the whole group. While at the start she was somewhat of a reason for Farnese to be included in the party, now that doesn't count anymore because Farny is a witch apprentice and in some time will be able to aid the group in battle too.

More than once now I've thought that if we can't have at least part of the old Caska back, she maybe better off dead. While it would probably break Guts' heart (if that is possible even more) it would bring him back to his revenge driven path against Griffith, and it would stop reminding him and the reader of the good old golden arc times everytime we see the group.

[Starnum]

While I hope it doesn't happen that way, it's totally possible that things won't work out with the elf king at all, and Casca will remain how she is. However, she isn't better off dead that way. You don't just give up on someone because they go crazy or are mentally disabled.