I read the last few chapters of Berserk in bulk...

[Femto]

Would they fall apart if Guts was removed from the group? What, like the Hawks did when Griffith was imprisoned?

That was a storytelling event.

We're talking about them falling apart as characters and nobody giving a shit about them.

Don't confuse the issue.

Caska became leader of the Hawks, Corkus wallowed in depression, Rickert gained some balls, Judeau became even more of a support figure.

All these characters moved forward without Griffith, or Guts for that matter.

Is that falling apart?

Of course not.

[42ndEndOfTheWorld]

I think that main problem with new companions is that too much time is spent on their personal stories. Original band was cooler, but Miura was smart enough to give them limited screen time because there were more important stuff going on. Not only are new characters less awesome than the old, but Miura spends a lot of time on their origin stories, development and other stuff. Even this has some awesome moments (like Farense ordering Serpico to burn his own mother at stake) but all in all that's just a detour from really important issues like Skull Knight's true origin, potential God Hands origin stories, finding plausible way to defeat Griffith and finding cure for Casca. I want more flashbacks from Gaiseric times and other ages and some information about Griffith before he founded Hawks.

However Griffith did became king in last chapter, so I think that Femto is still over dramatizing the whole issue. I still have faith in Miura.

[Sandman]

However Griffith did became king in last chapter, so I think that Femto is still over dramatizing the whole issue. I still have faith in Miura.

Here, Here

[Brainpiercing]

The original hawks were pretty stereotyped characters, you never had anything nearly as complex as even Farnese in the old band.
Look at what was there:
Cocky young guy (Judeau)
dumb brute (Pippin)
kid of the troupe (Rickert)
Selfish petulant guy (Corkus)

That was IT, I mean, there was nothing much else. Sure, Guts had some friends in the Raiders, but did you meet them by anything other than name? NO. Did any of these people have any sort of personal motivation? NO, they all followed Griffith, they were there solely to show that different people followed Griffith in fulfilling his dream. Some of them got some minor angles, but nothing too deep.

IMHO the current band are ten times better developed than the old band ever was. You don't have to like them, but you have to accept that. I was sceptical when Shierke was introduced, but she became a strong supporting character IMHO. I don't like the tag-along kids too much, so I probably won't ever like Isidoro as a character, but he's the comic relief guy by now, mostly, and he was important in the Tower arc. YES, it's a bit disappointing that Puck lost some impact, but you can't give him the same screen time when there are suddenly so many more people.

In fact, the guy most of you think is the coolest of the new band, Serpico, is also the weakest character. What does he do? He follows Farnese. Uh, great. He gets some cool moves with his wind gear. Uh, yeah, so he can chop up big crocs. So what, he has the least impact on Guts, and on the story. He's just there to make it a little believable that Caska and Farnese don't die all the time, because Guts can't take care of them so much when he has to fight the big monsters.

[Albator]

I stopped reading when you said that Judeau was cocky.

[MrFelony]

judeau wasn't cocky persay, but he was the guy who was good at a lot of things but not really great at everything. besides that brainpiercing is pretty much right. all the characters from the first band weren't developed a whol lot, while the characters we have now have all had their time in the spot light here and there.

[42ndEndOfTheWorld]

Brainpiercing, I agree that original hawks were somewhat stereotypical too, but Miura spent very little time on them so they didn't distract you from main cast and events. And Serpico is the best character because he is the most devious: you just can't trust him. He betrayed Guts once when he challenged him at that pillar column, and just a few hours later he saved him and everyone else from Zod (Gut's was so mad that he was about to enter impossible fight with Zod and everyone). I think that the whole series would be way cooler if only Serpico joined Guts without rest of the cast. Without Farense as his motivation, he would have been even more unpredictable. Now one can say that Farense is one interesting and conficting character, but I think that the whole story lost a lot of credibility because of her. Can you even imagine volume 1 Guts taking with him someone that incompetent? Or Isidoro, for that matter? One can say that he allowed her to join him because he needed someone to take care of Casca but I think that dragging Casca along everywhere was a bad idea in the first place.

[Libaax]

Its not about Quantity its about Quality!!

Sure the original hawk members didnt have alot of time to develop but he did magic with them. He made them interesting,loveable. I almsot cried seeing them die. I felt so sad,angry(wishing to kill Griffith ) etc This new band are also sterotypes just like the old but they are nothing but walking through the chapters staying behind Guts like good little soldiers. Only the witch is actually a part of the story. What is Farnese? a babysitter? in Berserk?.....

[42ndEndOfTheWorld]

Only the witch is actually a part of the story. What is Farnese? a babysitter? in Berserk?.....

My point exactly. You can have a character which is complex has a back story and all and still be completely out of the place. It's like putting Hamlet in Terminator 2 movie. Just doesn't work. If you want to follow Guts you have to be ,above all, badass warrior/spelcaster, otherwise the story will get ridiculous pretty quickly. End of story.

[War Machine]

The fact of the matter is that the story is currently building up to something. In every story you get an introduction, where you meet the main characters and get to know their story, then it starts to build up towards the climax, and finally the ending. Berserk is just in between the introduction and climax which is usually the most dragged out part.

[Femto]

The original hawks were pretty stereotyped characters, you never had anything nearly as complex as even Farnese in the old band.
Look at what was there:
Cocky young guy (Judeau)
dumb brute (Pippin)
kid of the troupe (Rickert)
Selfish petulant guy (Corkus)

That was IT, I mean, there was nothing much else. Sure, Guts had some friends in the Raiders, but did you meet them by anything other than name? NO. Did any of these people have any sort of personal motivation? NO, they all followed Griffith, they were there solely to show that different people followed Griffith in fulfilling his dream. Some of them got some minor angles, but nothing too deep.

IMHO the current band are ten times better developed than the old band ever was. You don't have to like them, but you have to accept that. I was sceptical when Shierke was introduced, but she became a strong supporting character IMHO. I don't like the tag-along kids too much, so I probably won't ever like Isidoro as a character, but he's the comic relief guy by now, mostly, and he was important in the Tower arc. YES, it's a bit disappointing that Puck lost some impact, but you can't give him the same screen time when there are suddenly so many more people.

In fact, the guy most of you think is the coolest of the new band, Serpico, is also the weakest character. What does he do? He follows Farnese. Uh, great. He gets some cool moves with his wind gear. Uh, yeah, so he can chop up big crocs. So what, he has the least impact on Guts, and on the story. He's just there to make it a little believable that Caska and Farnese don't die all the time, because Guts can't take care of them so much when he has to fight the big monsters.

You're forgetting one very important thing: people actually liked the Hawks.

You're ignoring that in spite of the Hawks being far less important to the main story than the current cast.

Even with how little screen time they got, people really liked them and most of them were developed quite nicely with their own personal traits and quirks that made them stand out from the stereotypes you claim they were stranded on (which in itself is a debatable point). The subtle hints of Judeau being attracted to Caska for example gives the character a lot of depth just like Corkus having been at one point a man with great ambition (only to ultimately fail) does.

I mean, you even feel for Gaston's death in the Eclipse and he didn't have more than 5 lines in the entire series.

The new cast has certainly had a lot more time to develop but they're still just boring as hell.

Like Libaax said, quality and not quantity.

You may not realize it but you're complaining about the same thing I am in your paragraph about Serpico: that the new cast is adding nothing to the story.

That doesn't mean Serpico isn't the most interesting character in the bunch though.

[Brainpiercing]

Ok, good, then in spite of offering more detail Miura hasn't managed to endear the new characters to the readers. This is a problem that every storyteller eventually encounters, because making a character lovable is something you have to think about. Perhaps Miura never wanted us to love Farnese. She is not, after all, very lovable at all. She's not funny, she doesn't have any endearing quirks, and she used to be a total psycho.

The only characters with some lovable traits are Puck, Shierke and some sideline characters like the seer-girl and Mule. Even Guts himself isn't lovable at all, IMHO.

So I ask myself, is this perhaps intentional?

[42ndEndOfTheWorld]

Ok, good, then in spite of offering more detail Miura hasn't managed to endear the new characters to the readers. This is a problem that every storyteller eventually encounters, because making a character lovable is something you have to think about. Perhaps Miura never wanted us to love Farnese. She is not, after all, very lovable at all. She's not funny, she doesn't have any endearing quirks, and she used to be a total psycho.

The only characters with some lovable traits are Puck, Shierke and some sideline characters like the seer-girl and Mule. Even Guts himself isn't lovable at all, IMHO.

So I ask myself, is this perhaps intentional?

Intentional what? To make a bunch of characters who feel COMPLETELY OUT OF PLACE, and ARE NOT EVEN PART OF MAIN FUCKIN' STORY and then spend several volumes on their development. Serpico has no lovable traits either, but he at least belongs to the world of berserk because he is a badass warrior, and is so interesting character. He is a psycho too, in a way maybe even bigger one than Farenze, but that makes him even better. Schierke is the only one who is actually part of main story ,and she has incredible abilities, which justifies her existence although she is less interesting than Black Swordsman Arc Puck used to be. Sill I like her somewhat.

There is a difference between lovable characters (like characters that you would call good in real life) and good characters (those that make sense, fit the story and have unconventional traits)

[MrFelony]

farnese fits the story. they had a whole side plot devoted to the topic. I'm not sure if you missed it, but i'll give you a summary. Farnese agrees to marry some noble in exchange for a ship so that guts can get to the island, but guts realizes that he needs farnese to take care of casca because she is the only one who can. so miura then spent at least one or two more chapters about guts going and getting her back.

[Libaax]

Ok, good, then in spite of offering more detail Miura hasn't managed to endear the new characters to the readers. This is a problem that every storyteller eventually encounters, because making a character lovable is something you have to think about. Perhaps Miura never wanted us to love Farnese. She is not, after all, very lovable at all. She's not funny, she doesn't have any endearing quirks, and she used to be a total psycho.

The only characters with some lovable traits are Puck, Shierke and some sideline characters like the seer-girl and Mule. Even Guts himself isn't lovable at all, IMHO.

So I ask myself, is this perhaps intentional?

Guts is loveable cause you have seen him go through stuff that make normal people go crazy and he doesnt sleep cause of his brand. His neverending war against the apostles and their god. People think he is a massmurderer cause of the apostles becoming human after thier death.


Guts is special cause Miura was genius enough to show the cold hearted mean prick he was before the flashback. After the flashback, you understood and admire him for his struggle.


Sure Guts is colder now and less loveable and thats cause he is like before the hawks he has no real friends. He hasnt bonded with any of his band except Puck he has known for years. Im not saying he is as cold and hateful as the start of the manga. Its cause he struggles more now thanks to the armour eating him up, apostles being even stronger and he has no one to turn to. Casca is a basket case.

[Khelegond]

The old Band of the Hawk was a bit cliche? Yeah, it was. But people use cliches for one reason. They WORK. I really felt when the Hawks died. Farnese and Serpico are well developed, but that doesn't mean I find them interesting. It's like watching Discovery. Sometimes you watch realy great things, and sometimes they put a 6 hours special about how bugs copulate. I really don't care

But, all in all, I'm liking the develpment of Gatts. The way he's handling the companions... I think he's starting to THINK about the future, much more than the usual... but let's see how this works in the end. Can't wait for this chapter.

[Brainpiercing]

Right, the cliché represents the norm, or what we would like to be the norm. Sure it works, and it's a wonderful formula to get a character quickly which will instantly be accepted.

I think all (well, most) of the characters now have their reasons for existence in the story. The berserk universe is NOT a shonen fighting place, where each story-arc is just concerned with how to get the hero his next powerup.

But so far,even if one were to reduce berserk to simple shonen status, the only useless character is Isidoro, at least, he is there just of his own volition and doesn't serve any purpose.

Puck heals Guts and does comic relief.
Shierke can do mass-destruction and give Guts safe berserker-time.
Farnese is taking care of Caska and learning how to do mass destruction (presumably so that shierke can spend more time keeping Guts human in the armour.
Serpico, well, he follows Farnese and keeps her safe (and incidentally also Caska), and he can sometimes even fight alongside Guts.
Caska is just, well, Caska. She's the plot device to keep the story running
And Isidoro, well, he had a few moments of protecting Shierke so she could prepare her mass-destruction, plus he's comic relief, but he's pretty useless, all in all.
Ivarella is just tag-along.

Remember, this is the "Gattsu-tai shonen analysis". It is, I'm going to have to make that very clear, totally STUPID to even look at it that way. But it's possible, and people who think Berserk is just an older version of Bleach should look at it that way.

People who are intelligent enough to see the full scope of Berserk can come to their own conclusions. Again, you don't have to LIKE any of these characters. But they ARE important to the story. If you want to see Guts without friends and just massacring hundreds of foes just read any old story-arc again. Read the Lost Children, or the Birth Rite. But even there you will find characters who are not fantastic warriors, but who pull the story along nevertheless. So they still have a place in the Berserk universe. And so has Guts' new troupe.