Evil Genius

Thanks EG!

Thank you EG. Great work as always.

Still not used to Falcon =D

Thanks EG.
Another 'till next time. Well, at least it was very pretty.

somefatman wrote:Thanks EG.
Another 'till next time. Well, at least it was very pretty.

They said summer... so is about as much time between this chapter and last chapter... sooo any time between now and august

You failed @ the title of this thread

Thanks nevertheless.

ximbary wrote:You failed @ the title of this thread

o
fixed

Thank you EG!

Thanks as always EG

Thanks as always, EG.

Locus speaking of divine right makes me feel that most of the Neo Band of the Ha... Falcon, was human until recently. I just can't imagine Zodd or any other monster that appeared before Femto's era (like Wyald, for example) ever speaking like that.

War Machine wrote:Thanks as always, EG.

Locus speaking of divine right makes me feel that most of the Neo Band of the Ha... Falcon, was human until recently. I just can't imagine Zodd or any other monster that appeared before Femto's era (like Wyald, for example) ever speaking like that.

hahahaha I think the animation studios keeps forgetting about Wyald... even though it was a big plot device for Guts, proving that man can kill demons (well just guts)

Most of the monsters are before Femto (white hawk) unless we missed something huge with all the new monsters sprouting. But, yea, Locus and his divine rights =.=

Well every monster defers to Griffith. When Wyald tried to kill Griffith after seeing him as a useless husk Zodd stepped in. The demons believe in Griffith at least as much as the Midlanders.

well, femto is one of apostles "guarding angels"...but there's a change of hearth in the apostles. For zood at least...before he was searching for a rival and the next battle, now he's really whishing to serve griffith.

Zodd follows Girffith because all monsters defer to the God Hand and therefore Griffith (and that didn't happen easily either, Griffith had to cut off his horn to make him kneel), not because Griffith brings hope to the world or anything like that. Locus' little speech seemed too optimistic to be uttered by Zodd, or Grumbeld even.

What about pre-femto? Zodd stopped from almost killing Griffith and Guts when he saw the Behelit and tossed Guts a sword to kill Boscogne. He also killed Wyald because Wyald was about to end Griffith. Most of them definitely follow Griffith for different reasons than the regular Midlanders.

It's the tone that sounds odd to me. All the apostles know of the God Hand and what they can do (they're the ones that made them apostles in the first place), they also know Griffith was going to be the fifth one and that they're forced to follow him as well (part of the deal I guess). To them though, ideas of faith or hope (or divine right in this case) don't really matter since their dealing with the God Han is straight forward (I made a deal with them to stay alive, I have to follow their rules). The apostles are able to disobey the God Hand, but the God Hand controls everything to make sure things go their way, something Zodd understood much better than Wyald. That said, at no point in all of this do those constructs I mentioned earlier come into play, and Locus' little ramble about Griffith seemed odd for a monster who gave up his humanity to become an apostle. It seems weird that thoughts of vindication through the savior (however divine and powerful he might be) are even considered.

War Machine wrote:It's the tone that sounds odd to me. All the apostles know of the God Hand and what they can do (they're the ones that made them apostles in the first place), they also know Griffith was going to be the fifth one and that they're forced to follow him as well (part of the deal I guess). To them though, ideas of faith or hope (or divine right in this case) don't really matter since their dealing with the God Han is straight forward (I made a deal with them to stay alive, I have to follow their rules). The apostles are able to disobey the God Hand, but the God Hand controls everything to make sure things go their way, something Zodd understood much better than Wyald. That said, at no point in all of this do those constructs I mentioned earlier come into play, and Locus' little ramble about Griffith seemed odd for a monster who gave up his humanity to become an apostle. It seems weird that thoughts of vindication through the savior (however divine and powerful he might be) are even considered.

Something that's worth considering is that you don't have to believe something in order to say it. One of the apostles (I forget which, but it might even have been Locus) Locus strikes me had a discussion with the Kushan emperor once where he pointed out that apostles WANT to follow and serve Griffith. The Kushan emperor resisted this because of his extreme pride (and because he'd been set up by Idea to be the "enemy" for Griffith to fight...) but ALL apostles feel the compulsion/desire to serve Griffith - or rather Femto. As a reasonably intelligent individual, and a former knight, Locus should understand the power of such ideas to humans, and understand the point of the show Griffith is putting on. He doesn't have to believe any of what he's saying in order to go along with it, and as a loyal follower of Griffith, that's exactly what he should do. So it seemed perfectly in character to me.

Istvan wrote: Something that's worth considering is that you don't have to believe something in order to say it. One of the apostles (I forget which, but it might even have been Locus) Locus strikes me had a discussion with the Kushan emperor once where he pointed out that apostles WANT to follow and serve Griffith. The Kushan emperor resisted this because of his extreme pride (and because he'd been set up by Idea to be the "enemy" for Griffith to fight...) but ALL apostles feel the compulsion/desire to serve Griffith - or rather Femto. As a reasonably intelligent individual, and a former knight, Locus should understand the power of such ideas to humans, and understand the point of the show Griffith is putting on. He doesn't have to believe any of what he's saying in order to go along with it, and as a loyal follower of Griffith, that's exactly what he should do. So it seemed perfectly in character to me.

Well if I remember right... Zodd could have cared less, and would have rather faught... until he completely lost in his dream/reality. The emperor wanted to follow Griffith, Once griffith was standing before him, but his humanity (whats left of it) rejected it. From my understanding, their past selves "wants", is the only thing that can push them away from Femto/godhand control. You see it time and time again through the Black swordsman arc/pekaf/tower arc that apostles follow their Prime desires. Even if a godhand stands before them, and orders to control them, they can reject it (probably not for the better of their health), and continue on with their desire. It seems The Emperor's desire was Controling the world/midland/w.e. Zodd's is fighting, and he found the most powerful opponent, Griffith. That assassin apostle's is to kill powerful foes... and stays with griffith so he can eventually take his head. Locus seems the "noble" type.

Their prime desires comes from their Humanity, and what they wanted when they were once human. So if guts ever becomes an apostle, his prime desire will be to kill griffith/femto. But since his desires have begun to change to simply protecting those he holds dear, mainly caska, but his group included, this means he can never become an apostle, as they would be the sacrifices.

I looked at the fight in the port where Zodd and Guts join up because I wanted to see how Zodd talked about Griffith and he doesn't say anything other than he was sent there by him and that he's obeying his orders, but I noticed instead that there's another apostle that wanted to attack Guts and company after the whole fight and Zodd had to forcefully restrain him and remind him that their orders were only to push back the emperor's army:

http://www.mangareader.net/96-1152-26/b ... er-32.html

Anyway, if apostles are invariably drawn to Griffith, how is it that a low-level apostle even able to entertain the idea of disobeying Griffith? That conversation between Locus and the emperor you mentioned seems to show that the latest Locus rant is on par with the way he speaks (and maybe how other Neo-Band of the Falcon members speak, but we haven't really heard too much from them), but that's still feels odd for the grunt-level apostle. I forgot that little tidbit about their prime desires, but I suppose that can easily be explained with "they serve the God Hand and now that they're moving forward with their plans, all apostles must obey the new orders".

War Machine wrote:I looked at the fight in the port where Zodd and Guts join up because I wanted to see how Zodd talked about Griffith and he doesn't say anything other than he was sent there by him and that he's obeying his orders, but I noticed instead that there's another apostle that wanted to attack Guts and company after the whole fight and Zodd had to forcefully restrain him and remind him that their orders were only to push back the emperor's army:

http://www.mangareader.net/96-1152-26/b ... er-32.html

Anyway, if apostles are invariably drawn to Griffith, how is it that a low-level apostle even able to entertain the idea of disobeying Griffith? That conversation between Locus and the emperor you mentioned seems to show that the latest Locus rant is on par with the way he speaks (and maybe how other Neo-Band of the Falcon members speak, but we haven't really heard too much from them), but that's still feels odd for the grunt-level apostle. I forgot that little tidbit about their prime desires, but I suppose that can easily be explained with "they serve the God Hand and now that they're moving forward with their plans, all apostles must obey the new orders".

This is only a guess, since Miura hasn't really explained, but I think that a lot of the "low-level" apostles are a lot more driven by their wims/desires (see Wyld for an example of this...) without much in the way of long-term thought or planning. Hence the way when we were first introduced to the Neo Band of the Hawk (or Falcon, I suppose) one of those low level Apostles was planning to eat the medium girl, until the archer apostle stopped him, saying how he shouldn't eat their medium, and Griffith would be displeased. It's not so much that they are actively thinking of working against Griffith as that they aren't used to considering the long term consequences of their actions. They simply haven't had to.

Take it there is no news. Ah, the forum pipes up where there is some sort of news, but in the mean time, it feels like the place is completely dead.

Ah, hoping its a release in the summer. I dont want to be starved =(