Evil Genius

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ALAMOGORDO, New Mexico (AP) -- A former Nazi scientist who was linked to experiments on prisoners in the Dachau concentration camp in Germany has been ousted from the International Space Hall of Fame.
The German-born scientist was brought to this country by the U.S. military after World War II to work on aerospace projects. He died in 1987.

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The removal process began last fall after a museum visitor noticed Strughold's name in its hall of fame and notified the New Mexico Anti-Defamation League, said Susan Seligman, the league's regional director.

The league uncovered records of Strughold's past and presented them to the commission. Strughold was linked to experiments on concentration camp prisoners in the 1940s as the Nazi director of medical research for aviation, Seligman said, though she said she did not know of him personally conducting experiments.

Strughold's name was removed from Brooks Air Force Base's aero-medical library in 1995 and his picture was removed from the mural "The World History of Medicine" at Ohio State University in 1993, the Anti-Defamation League said.

If he was brought over to the US of A by the US military then obviously the government felt that he has something very important to contribute, I think it is a shame that his achievements for the betterment of humanity will be forgotten because of his achievements while under the Nazi party.

Yeah if he did something good,his past shouldnt matter so much.

Pete Rose anyone?

Buzkashi wrote:Pete Rose anyone?

You ain't kiddin'.

Seriously. Can we stop with the utter and complete villification with anyone that was a Nazi? Half the damn time they didn't even want anything to do with what Hitler had going on. The current Pope was a Hitler Youth!

Gotta love over-political correctness.

Daedelus wrote:Gotta love over-political correctness.

I can't agree with you more.

i agree, however if it is true that he did conduct experiments on humans....

panasonic wrote:i agree, however if it is true that he did conduct experiments on humans....

Doesn't mean he should be forgotten. Just add a side note: Also a nazi. No need to remove him, because he DID do good as well.

i dont say forget him, but if he really did do unhuman experiments on a fellow human being, putting him up as a great man doesnt seem appropritae

Its not putting him up as a great man in general. Its just saying he did great things for that field.

Thus is the benefit of the footnote:

Dr. Hubertus Strughold* was instrumental in identifying the problems of human travel in space, even coining the term 'space medicine' in a 1948 symposium in San Antonio. In 1950 Dr. Strughold* published a seminal paper in the The Journal of Aviation Medicine in which he proposed a dramatic thesis concerning the human potential for space exploration. Dr. Strughold* addressed the central problem of where space began; he argued that rather than existing in the remote regions of the atmosphere, space was present in small gradations as altitude levels increased.


* Dr. Strughold was also a member of the Nazi party. He participated in a 1942 conference that discussed "experiments" on human beings carried out by the institute and may have sanctioned or ordered the experiments. The experiments included subjecting Dachau inmates to torture and death by being immersed in water, placed in air pressure chambers, forced to drink sea water and exposed to freezing temperatures. Strughold had denied approving the experiments and said he learned of them only after World War II. Strughold's involvements in the immoral and inhumane activities of the Nazi party are deplorable and contemptuous, but his contributions to the field of the aerospacial sciences are significant and of historic note.

Daedelus wrote:

Buzkashi wrote:Pete Rose anyone?

You ain't kiddin'.

Seriously. Can we stop with the utter and complete villification with anyone that was a Nazi? Half the damn time they didn't even want anything to do with what Hitler had going on. The current Pope was a Hitler Youth!

Gotta love over-political correctness.

there is a big difference between just being a nazi soldier and someone who experiments on innocent civilians.

I could care less if he gets taken out. No one will remember the people he helped experiment.

If he wrote somewhere a sincere letter of apology sometimes in his life for his actions, then he should be placed back with what he has done and the letter. If he hasn't than oh well. But hey he's already dead.

Right, because someone dies and it's insta-who-cares. I mean Regan died and everyone stopped caring or thinking about everything he did. See also Hitler, Roosevelt etc.

If you could care less if he got taken off the Hall, you wouldn't have replied. The act of the reply shows that you actually care.

Next time, lurk a little more before responding to a near-month old thread which has died with some really stupid statements.

I'm sorry I have a life and go to school full time. I do not lurk here. I just dont have time to post and look forums daily. I am on and off at mindwerks forum, but I never lurk.

And please do not attack me, that's really childish, I did not attack you. The thread was at the top 5 of the thread. So I figure it's still alive.

I'm not saying forget the guy. I'm saying to recognize everyone for everything they have done, good and bad. Give him his recognition, but not at some Hall-of-Fame place.

Hilter had some good art work when he was young, should we put him next to greats like Leonardo? And other respectful artists? No. It deserves some place in history, but always in context.

And c'mon you know what I mean about I don't care.

Daedelus is like a rabid dog that we were going to train to be an attack dog, but then found out that he was already crazy and willing to attack anything that shows weakness.

It's not a big deal. Femdo would just call him sandy.

I think it's a waste to take someone's achievements from a place where they can be recognized simply because of something he did in his past.

If you murdered someone when you were 20, and then found the cure for cancer, would you like the idea of them removing you from history 50 years later because you had murdered someone when you were younger?

Honestly, if I found the cure for aids and was taken out of it for murder, then so be it. It was my fault and I should take responsibility for all my actions.

But of course it depends, if I tortured hundreds of people then found the cure for aids I still would feel I deserve recognition for finding the cure but I wouldn't deserve some Nobel prize in science or something.

But say if I only killed one person as a nazi soldier or something during war then discovered the cure then by all means the person deserves recognition and accord for it. But still everyone should recognize I was a nazi soldier. But the good far outweighs the bad here.

But I think it depends on the circumstances and the extent of the negative compared to the extent of the positive.

But I perfectly understand that the person should still be recognized for the good they've done. Just not giving some big acclaim or big recognition for it if they have committed some atrocities.

Right -- but let's not pretend that preforming inhumane experiments on live human subjects under an oppressive and genocidal regime that conquered damn-near-all of Europe in war of conquest is the same as "murder."

Let's not also pretend that people only post in threads they care about. I for example post in the Off The Wall forums from time to time. I really couldn't care less what anyone has to say there -- Psi just sends me links.

I bet the only forums you post in is here and in the Interstice.

I'm a bit partial about this. Despite saying 'forgive and forget', it's easier said than done. If the discoveries a person made that were beneficial to mankind, say for example, a cure for AIDS, it would count as redemption, I guess, in an attempt to repent for his horrible past crimes. While his feat should be recognised, I feel that we shouldn't ignore his past either. It's all part of history. It depends on what he is honoured for, if for the field of science, sure, I get that. But as a human being or a better person in general, probably not.

Killfile wrote:Thus is the benefit of the footnote:

Dr. Hubertus Strughold* was instrumental in identifying the problems of human travel in space, even coining the term 'space medicine' in a 1948 symposium in San Antonio. ---cut to the footnote---

* Dr. Strughold was also a member of the Nazi party. He participated in a 1942 conference that discussed "experiments" on human beings carried out by the institute and may have sanctioned or ordered the experiments. The experiments included subjecting Dachau inmates to torture and death by being immersed in water, placed in air pressure chambers, forced to drink sea water and exposed to freezing temperatures. Strughold had denied approving the experiments and said he learned of them only after World War II. Strughold's involvements in the immoral and inhumane activities of the Nazi party are deplorable and contemptuous, but his contributions to the field of the aerospacial sciences are significant and of historic note.

Okay...I'm torn here.

On the one hand, I agree that the man's accomplishments later in life merit acknowledgement and I know that many Holocaust survivors find comfort in the knowledge that those atrocities eventually yielded positive results.

But the fact is that he participated in some of the most infamous and inhumane atrocities of the 20th century. We're not talking about a man who killed "someone." We're talking about a man that tortured people (see Killfile's footnote above). The man should have been convicted of crimes against humanity by the Nuremberg Tribunal.

The United States made a lot of ethically questionable decisions in the early years of the Cold War. Desperate to get ahead of the "Big Red Dog," the United States opened its doors to Nazi and Japanese scientists who had commited war crimes.

Perhaps the decision to remove this scientist from the Hall of Fame is also an attempt to forget this embarassing part of our own history.

And Deadelus, you asked earlier "can we stop with the utter and complete villification with anyone [who] was a Nazi? Half the damn time they didn't even want anything to do with what Hitler had going on." This is not the case in this instance. This man actively participated in "what Hitler had going on." Does that fact change your reponse to the issue or do you still write the question off as an issue of political correctness?

Thats bullshit. If his contributions got him into the hall of fame, he should stay there, regardless.

Gaiseric wrote:Thats bullshit. If his contributions got him into the hall of fame, he should stay there, regardless.

I can only assume that this comment refers to my question about the US interest in directing attention away from darker aspects of its history by removing this scientist from the Hall of Fame rather than defending his inclusion in light of his Nazi past.

If that is the "bullshit" to which you refer, I ask you to explain why this scientist was not prosecuted as part of the Nuremberg proceedings. I ask that you also explain why most of the information surrounding Operation Paperclip is still classified AND why the United States did not set up a Nuremberg-style tribunal to investigate Japanese war crimes.

Actually, I was just throwing my two cents in on the orginal post. I think its awful that people refuse to acknowledge someone's work because of some wrong-doings in his past. He's not an angel, he's fuckin human like everyone else. At least he did something noteworthy instead of bitching about whats morally right or wrong.

Gaiseric wrote: He's not an angel, he's fuckin human like everyone else.

But the average human being doesn't participate in the torture of hundreds of people.

Also my point was, like a few others, was not to refuse to acknowledge the good. Just not to enshrine him into a hall of fame due to the extent of his past actions. Just place him somewhere else where he can be recognized. They do so with Hitler and his artwork.

grimStar wrote:But the average human being doesn't participate in the torture of hundreds of people.

The average human being doesn't live in Nazi Germany. What I am saying is everyone does good and bad things, be it small or great, like Strughold.


Was he in the Hall of Fame for who he was or the work that he did?

dude, being in nazi germany and doing what must be done is one thing. but this guy activily participated in experiments on people. there is a great difference between fighting for your coutnry and doing what he did

Strughold was linked to experiments on concentration camp prisoners in the 1940s as the Nazi director of medical research for aviation, Seligman said, though she said she did not know of him personally conducting experiments.

Linked to is not the same thing as 'he did'. He is being removed from the space hall of fame because of things he may or may not have done, nothing of which was proven in any court.