Evil Genius

I agree,maybe Serpico and Skull Knight,for different reasons,could resist(but probably fail like the rest in the end)...

Why Serpico it isnt like he is special in a way that Griffith cant play him too.

I mean he even got to Guts,who were cold and angry guy at that time.

Serpico already has a powerful adoration for his sister when Guts had nobody and had a great need of someone's friendship/love(Griffith saw that and used that weakness).

Griffith is very, very feminine. I've asked random strangers who don't know anything about manga to look at a pic of Griffith and guess if it's a guy or girl, and they always guess girl.
But I could tell the differance. He's masculine enough for me to tell anyway, but I know how things are in anime/manga.
I still think he's gorgeous though, I don't care how evil/feminine he is

SarahofBorg wrote:Griffith is very, very feminine. I've asked random strangers who don't know anything about manga to look at a pic of Griffith and guess if it's a guy or girl, and they always guess girl.
But I could tell the differance. He's masculine enough for me to tell anyway, but I know how things are in anime/manga.
I still think he's gorgeous though, I don't care how evil/feminine he is

Despite all that has been said. I do not find pre-eclipse Griffith to be evil. Over ambitious, yeah but not evil. Post-eclipse Griffith is a whole different story though. I think all apostles and God hand do not view human beings as equals. It's like how human view animals. So would you consider our act towards animals as evil ?

Well,planning to kill the royal family to access to the trone faster is maybe not evil but certainly mad : for Griffith, the human life has no value, it can be explained but not forgiven (that is why Guts won't stop chasing Griffith).

I dont know if post eclipse griffith is actually evil...it all depends on what he does when he gets his kingdom. at the moment though he seems to be a very enlightened leader who cares about his followers and those he conquers. though the key thing to my statement is at the moment.

I think he passed a state in the evilness : he just used his new powers to push his inate talents to new and maybe infinite limits;
Zodd is the new Guts and make the dirty job for him,the archer is the new Judeau,Grunbeld replace Pippin,etc;only Caska and Rickert weren't replaced by an apostle;
maybe the apostles who killed and ate the old hawks gained some of their victim power or personality.

Griffith wasn't evil. He was machiavelian. He was cunning, resortfull, smart, and made great plans. His way to the throne were through Charlotte. Then, Julius tried to kill him. And he killed him. After that, the queen and her servants tried to kill him, with the wine poison. And then he killed them.

Of course, he's not exactly good, but he wasn't evil. But in the eclipse he foregoes his humanity for his new body and powers. THEN he's evil. Exactly the same with the count, with the butterfly girl/apostle, and etc. They had to cross some line, in which they're no more humans.

After that, they're evil. Even after that, something can happen...remember the count? He didn't sacrifice his daughter.

Anyway, too much words Hope you got what I said...

Khelegond wrote: Of course, he's not exactly good, but he wasn't evil. But in the eclipse he foregoes his humanity for his new body and powers. THEN he's evil. Exactly the same with the count, with the butterfly girl/apostle, and etc. They had to cross some line, in which they're no more humans.

After that, they're evil. Even after that, something can happen...remember the count? He didn't sacrifice his daughter.

yeah on this point you made, i am completely sold.
=)
esp. using the count as an example.

something can happen,yes but in the case of the count,the "something" that changed the destiny is the match between Griffith and Guts : for me, the count remembered his old self (a brave and devouted knight) after he saw the desesperate but never-ending Gut's fight vs the apostles and Godhands;
the fact that Griffith joined the Godhand changed the usual sacrifice ceremony too;
my meaning here is that Guts is the anti-Griffith reaction (like in physic,action-reaction) who'll change by himself(+ the creatures and humans who were saved by him and lived thanks to him after the eclipse) the entire destiny;
if my hypothesis are correct,the words of the witch (Flora) about the cycle and the similarities between Guts and SK mean that SK survived to an eclipse too when the last Godhand,Void, was created;
if all of that is still correct,a final match between 2 armies,one leaded by Griffith and the Godhands + apostles vs another army leaded by Guts and SK will happen in the end...

ps : I know all of that was already debated in some others topics,I was just explaining how I (hope to) see some of the ending story lines of Berserk(the finishing tome ending in a wonderful bloodpath during the armagedon ).

I think SK will go down in the end. Not sure if Gatts will go down too.

About the Count watching Gatts...I think he hated him too much to feel inspired by that. It was pure love for his daughter. Usually, someone can love and hate with the same passion. So, the Count loved his wife, but turned to a hate so intense, he sacrificed her. But his daughter made nothing to inspire the same hate, so...he couldn't sacrifice her...

As Starnum pointed out, the only thuth only Miura knows, but if you pay enough attention, you can understand almost everything. This is the (another) beauty of Berserk

The thing is,without Guts,the count daughter would have been sacrified later(or raped by his father or died commiting suicide,...),Guts saved her and maybe she'll come back to avenge his father in later tomes...

I really hope she does.

Can I start discussion about pre-eclipse Griffith VS Serpico (before he got elemental sword) here?
I think that it is ok, since both characters are from the same world.

42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:Can I start discussion about pre-eclipse Griffith VS Serpico (before he got elemental sword) here?
I think that it is ok, since both characters are from the same world.

They are both similar in their strategic mastery, however Griffith posseses the ambition that has driven him to become Femto. That ambition will prevail over all except the one whom Griffith came to rely on only to lose hold of - Gatts, a man with his own unique reason to survive.

EvilDmitri wrote:

42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:Can I start discussion about pre-eclipse Griffith VS Serpico (before he got elemental sword) here?
I think that it is ok, since both characters are from the same world.

They are both similar in their strategic mastery, however Griffith posseses the ambition that has driven him to become Femto. That ambition will prevail over all except the one whom Griffith came to rely on only to lose hold of - Gatts, a man with his own unique reason to survive.

I think Serpico would win if they fought with no horses and no armor, and on terrain unknown to them both. In second Guts vs Griffith duel, Griffith was not able to do anything, and in first Guts vs Serpico encounter (when naked Farense ordered Serpico to kill Guts) Serpico was able to scratch Guts' face. That's something.
However if Griffith was in his armor and on his horse, I am not sure how much damage Serpico's slender sword would do. Serpico was not able to penetrate Guts' berserker armor, so Griffith's armor should be a problem, too.

scratching a face is not a decisive advantage,you know :
Serpico has a technical advantage to Griffith cause he learned the textbook sword combat but Griffith has so many tricks in his pocket that he would probably beat Serpico and consider him as a skilled rookie (anyway they both like to have tactical advantages and avoid the fair fights,so you can't predict much about that).

I see Gatts defeating Griffith in their last duel as a symbolic victory more than a victory of skill. Sure, Gatts had developed enough to beat him, but what was important about that paticular scene was that Gatts had developed the WILL to defeat him and stop pursuing his dream. It was the event which broke Griffith, and I believe only one man has the power to do that to him - Gatts.

Serpico vs Griffith. Ownage. Griffith will own him. He doesn't stand a chance against him, motly because they fight with the same weapons. Gatts won the duel because of his sword. Griffith would won, if his sword didn't break.

On comparison - Serpico only scratched Gatts. Of course, he wasn't even caring about him. And in every single fight they fought, he wasn't even scratched, and Serpico had all advantages on his side.

Gatts is a incredible powerfull swordsman, maybe more than Griffith was. Serpico is smart, but not more than Griffith. Let's not be pretensious, Griffith still was a great, GREAT warrior, even at the war's end.

Some might say that if Serpico chose the battleground, he might won him. Griffith would adapt to the place before him even starting the battle.

Bah, I'm speaking too much. Griffith would own him, IMHO.

Goku would own them all .

I suggest you stop this vs nonsense before you start upsetting people. just to remind you guys of what you already should know, Mindwerks is not a forum that promotes vs. discussions.

42ndEndOfTheWorld wrote:Can I start discussion about pre-eclipse Griffith VS Serpico (before he got elemental sword) here?
I think that it is ok, since both characters are from the same world.

the answer is still probably no. if you have a question, just pm one of the mods or read the FAQ, preferably the latter first.

here's this, MrFelony, straight from the FAQ:

Q: How come my versus thread got locked?

In the case of versus threads involving characters that are not in Berserk, they get locked. Why you might ask. We’d like to at least try to keep the forum from degenerating into a mass of mindless banter. We feel that versus threads with characters external to Berserk will only bring down the quality of the forum. However, feel free to discuss hypothetical battles between characters within the series.

Now, I agree that VS threads that include non-berserk charaters mixed with berserk characters are stupid. Every fictional world has his own metaphysical laws. In berserk you have 3 intersecting layers of existence, so magic and other stuff that work in Berserk do not work the same way in other places and therefore comparing two characters form different universes is bullshit. Like comparing car and a ship.

Also, since we rarely (if ever) see two character from different universes doing same (or similar enough) stuff ,it is imossible to realy compare them, so everyone can easily prove that their character is the best, so you can discuss for days without any results, and forum degrades.

However, I do not see what is wrong with fictional pre-eclipse Griffith VS Serpico battle. After all, we saw both of them in action more than once, and even several times against the same opponent (Guts) so there is enough info and reason to speculate.

maybe i should reread the thing then heh . go ahead and discuss away i guess. but i could have sworn it was just a general anti-vs policy . though to be safe you might want to just keep it here in the newbie thread.

I still think it's retarded to discuss who could defeat who in the Berserk world.

Maybe that's just me.