Evil Genius

yeah, sure. but the first time in the water with armor and sword was before he got zapped and all. now he kinda has a added deadwight with him as well... i also dont think he has enough power left to jump up from the ground again (considering how far out he was)

but yes, lets wait and be suprised when the next part comes and we get another thing to discuss *grin*

gats is guts and will not change to someone else (like someone who forgets his best-friends .... actions)

cant wait .... *wimpers*

Or maybe he managed to grab onto a piece of wood and so didn't get submerged at all. But he better hope that the Kushan Emperor is ignoring him now (as he very well might, with all that Apostles around) because I'm pretty sure he doesn't have his sword set up as a lightning rod anymore, and if he's actually in the water there's absolutely no way to avoid a lightning attack.

Guts has just been run down by a huge flying/falling bull and Zodd has been hit multiple times with a giant cattle prod. After rereading the chapter (again again) i'm starting to wonder if the Question shouldn't be "if they'll help each other", but instead be "can they help each other" or will Guts companions do the rescuing, not recognizing the big naked Zodd, after he reverts to human form?

hmhm..... it gets better and better..... the suspense is killing us (or not?)
you think zodd will change back? i always thought that that (bull with wings and all that) is his true form and the human one is just a cover to live with/amongst humans.....
but lets just wait ..... there are only XX days left! *wimpers*

Guts has just been run down by a huge flying/falling bull and Zodd has been hit multiple times with a giant cattle prod. After rereading the chapter (again again) i'm starting to wonder if the Question shouldn't be "if they'll help each other", but instead be "can they help each other" or will Guts companions do the rescuing, not recognizing the big naked Zodd, after he reverts to human form?

An interesting idea, although that then begs the question, can Guts friends even help them? Schierke is unconscious, Serpico can't move fast enough while carrying even one (Guts already established this) and the others are fairly useless. Oh well, we'll have to wait and see.

you think zodd will change back? i always thought that that (bull with wings and all that) is his true form and the human one is just a cover to live with/amongst humans.....

If you look back, Apostles always revert to their original (human) form when they die. Maybe this also applies to getting knocked out, although it's hard to know, since we've never seen an Apostle be simply knocked out, instead of killed.

Istvan wrote:If you look back, Apostles always revert to their original (human) form when they die. Maybe this also applies to getting knocked out, although it's hard to know, since we've never seen an Apostle be simply knocked out, instead of killed.

That's quite an interesting point. Could anyone check if the lesser apostles that Guts has killed when he first recieved the armour did revert back to human after death? I think this should be interesting to note, and check if Miura does have the consistency that he regularly maintains.

Yeah, the same as the 'guardians' for those children. We haven't seen many instances of Guts completely decapitating an apostle, at least completely killing them so they return to their human form. I'll have to re-read the chapters once I get back to check up on this, I'm late overdue for a re-reading anyway. Very observant of Istvan to notice this and a very good point to bring up, I applaud you, sir.

I would say the snake apostle didn't revert but then again you don't really see him after death. but what about the baron? I can't really recall his death.. Oh ait, he was dragged into hell in his human form...anyone know about Cobra Commander?

P.S. happy 4th guys

I don't think that they revert after being knocked out. Remember Wyald? He was really down (so much so that Guts and the rest of the Hawks thought he was dead) but he didn't revert to human form - he had to be killed before he turned into a shrivelled old man (GOD, did that comeuppance ever feel good - I honestly think Wyald was the apostle I most loved to hate in the entire series).

As for the Snake Baron - the chapter closed out with Guts walking away while the Baron was still alive, so there's no onscreen record of what happened to the guy in death. Still, given everything else we've seen of Apostles and possessed creatures and humans, it's a pretty safe bet that the Baron probably went back to being a human after the fires turned him extra crispy...

I had forgotten about Wyald. But you're absolutely right, he didn't revert from being unconscious, so I guess it's only killing them that forces them to revert. Of course, this still leaves the possibility that Zodd voluntarily reverts to human, since a human form might have better odds of getting to shore then the flying cow form (that form doesn't look very capable of floating to me). We'll have to wait and see. Thanks for noticing about Wyald, absofflab.

To get back on topic, I hear the current form of Ganishka may be Femto's left nut.

I'll be sorely disappointed if Zodd just dies like that. Irregardless of whether human or flying bull form.

zodd is one of the important charas in berserk, i don t think he d die such a .... boring death (death by drowning, how uncool)

I just reread the chapter and I mean to get rid of fog Id try to vaporize him with something like fire. perhaps all those apostles that are engulfed by the emperor right now will go up in flames and therefore hurt the emperor, so he has to pull back his troops. I mean to be safe from the emperor you only need a faraday cage and a torch. It's not like he's the big deal, but flashy...

I am pretty sure that apostles have two forms but none of these is the human form. I we remember Wyald, he had three forms:
a.) big monster form
b.) monkey like apostle form
c.) tiny old man form
all the apostles look more likely unhuman, I mean mozgus looked like made from stone, the snake baron had these sharp teeth and snake eyes, they clearly have a not human look, though it's a human form.

I thought Mozgus was human until the egg apostle gave him power in that room when they were being chased by the darkness...

wasn't that pretty cut and dry or did I read and re-read that wrong?

yeah, Mozgus was pretty much human, no matter how ridiculously totem-pole face he had
I was completely sure he was an apostle when I first read those chapters

and I agree with |||||||:

apostles turn into monsters from their original human form, but conceal themselves with a...well..."almost human look"

but gain their original shape back after death

or so it seems

Hmmm....i wonder what Zodd's true form is...like, what will he turn into when he dies?

a little girl with long, golden locks

+ the 3 bears of course

you forgott that zodd is kinda damn old (over 200 yrs ar least, cant remember where they said his history nly that it was with the hawks) and when the dead aposles turn back they get their human form with the age they are att (when they die) - that is what i gathered from the other deaths .....(i think i should stop now...)

Hmmmm...I don't think so. I think they turn the age they were right at the sacrifice. Wyld was an old man, if I'm not mistaken. And the soldiers that worked for Jill (was that her name? The 'moth' apostle?) weren't old (but they could be working for her just for a little while).

Zodd WON'T turn into a human. I still think he did that to protect Gatts (and I really mean it). Of course, the possibility of me being wrong is quite high