Shooters (Gradius V, Ikaruga, and the like...)

Post by **Arresty** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:42 am

I know. I feel your pain. You are going through editting withdrawal.

Post by **Ayanami** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:44 am

Aight, I sent you the pics Eldo. I am sure you will be able to come up with something.

Post by **Eldo** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:51 am

*Thinks evil thoughts*

I'm sure I can think clearer after my nap.

Post by **Femto** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:01 am

Yeah, sorry for not being here to upload the pics Ayanami. A party suddenly broke out in my room and I had no choice but to join. Luckily the drinks were gone pretty quickly, so I'm sober enough to continue working on my shit.

And couldn't you at least crop the pics a little, Eldo?

Post by **Eldo** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:12 am

I already did, but I guess I left the height out. I'll make it shorter or something.

Post by **Ayanami** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:55 am

No problem, get around to it when you can guys.

Post by **dos.azn** » Sun May 01, 2005 6:57 pm

Femto wrote:Yeah, sorry for not being here to upload the pics Ayanami. A party suddenly broke out in my room and I had no choice but to join. Luckily the drinks were gone pretty quickly, so I'm sober enough to continue working on my shit.

a party with ur mommie and daddie?

Website · Post by **Damien** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:15 pm

Ayanami wrote:Dreamcast shooter revival woot.

But I don't even have Chaos Field yet.....

If you want the game Pm me and I will reply with the info...

Border down and Ikuruga are great shooters and so is Bangi-O!!!

Post by **Ayanami** » Thu May 05, 2005 8:26 am

Damien wrote:Border down and Ikuruga are great shooters and so is Bangi-O!!!

Yes, all three of those are great. Border Down has to be my favorite shooter next to Ikaruga on the Dreamcast.

There are a few shooters that I am missing from my Dreamcast collection. Chaos Field is one, I also need to get Mars Matrix and Twinkle Star Sprites assuming that I actually find a copy one day.

EDIT - Playing more Gradius V... I got owned on stage 5 for no reason. I don't know if I am going to be able to beat my high score anymore.

EDIT - Alright, trying this crazy new way of reviving a thread on my own, hope it works.

Got a new high score in Gradius V today using Type 2 to my surprise.

Ayanami - Gradius V - 1,562,160 Stage 1-6 Type 2

For those who have not played Gradius V by the way, I highly recommend it even if you are not a shooter fan, it is a master piece.

Now, as for the 4 different types of option command you can choose from in the beginning, I thought I would share my opinion and criticism on them. This was sparked by a conversation I had with Femto. Hope this helps Femto with Type decisions when you start to play again.

Type 1 (Freeze option Command) This is a great option set if you really know what you are doing, by far the hardest to use of the four. It is really flexible and can adjust to a lot of the situations in Gradius V. It is also probably the best boss killer of the four. Just line up the options in front of the Vic Viper and freeze them in place. Takes out bosses insanely fast. But it is still hard as hell to use because there is no easy stage with freeze.

Type 2 (Directional option Command) This one is great as well but also very hard to use. It is right under Type 1 for difficulty but not by much. Femto, you said that type 2 gives you great mobility, I am going to have to disagree with you there. The main problem with Type 2 is that when you are using the option command you can not move the Vic Viper. This makes it quite the bastard to use in certain frantic parts. Only reason why I think it is a tad easier to use than Type 1 is because you have to do some really unorthodox moving to get the options to line up just right in Type 1. Another huge fault with Type 2 is that you are going to struggle against bosses a lot more with it than the other types. (Except for the stage 4 boss because of the hiding trick you can do.) Type 2 has no great way to focus the options in a single area to kill bosses fast, in order to focus your fire you have to move the Vic Viper back and forth really fast which is hard as hell to do when the boss is moving, which most do. The single greatest thing about Type 2 is how much easier it makes stage 6. (The Ooze stage.) But stage 5, (The Asteroid stage) is much harder with Type 2. Another great thing about Type 2, is that if you die and lose an option or two, or lose a couple of options to the option stealer, you can still survive very well with Type 2.

Type 3 (Spacing option Command) This is the worst of the four. It really does not have much going for it except the fact that it can focus the options right on top of the Vic Viper for fast boss killing. But it is still not as good as Type 1 or Type 4 for killing bosses because it is not as flexible. Another big issue with Type 3 is that it sucks in certain scenarios of the game. Stage 6 is the bane of Type 3. It is incredibly hard to get through the ooze, and then you have to switch to horizontal double for the backwards part because Type 3 has no great way of killing anything behind you with laser. (This sucks because double is weak as hell.) The only way I see Type 3 working is using double for certain stage where you have to deal with things behind you and switching before bosses to laser. The last horrible thing I can mention about Type 3 is that if you die and lose an option or two or the option stealer manages to snag a couple, you are screwed. You NEED all four options for Type 3 to work.

Type 4 (Rotate option Command) Oh boy, what can I say, this type is just magnificent save stage 6. First of all, when you have all four options kicking with laser and missile going, this type acts as a shield against most small one shot enemies that some times clutter the screen and bullets that can be destroyed. This gives you a lot of mobility, and that is great. Another thing about Type 4, is that it is by far the easiest to use, just hold the option command button and let the bastards spin around. You don't have to worry about aiming your fire or spacing your options just right with Type 4, which makes it a lot easier to focus on dodging. It is also simply fantastic for killing bosses save the ball boss in stage 6. Here is the best kept secret about Type 4. You can tap the option command button with Type 4, when you constantly tap the option command the options will try to start to spin but instead will gather right on top of your ship. At first I thought this type sucked because there was no way to focus your attack, but with this tapping thing going for it, most bosses are a breeze, and large enemies in a stage just get destroyed. There are faults to Type 4 though, one of them is that stage 6, (The dreaded Ooze level) is incredibly hard with Type 4. I almost have this stage figured out with rotate, but it is still REALLY hard. The other big fault with Type 4, is that if you lose an option to death or the stealer, you are SCREWED. You will not get the uber sweet "shield" effect if you are missing an option.

So in short, Type 1 is for people that are REALLY good, and kills bosses the fastest. Type 2 is a god send for stage 6, and is also just great for taking out stuff behind Vic Viper. Type 3 is bad, but can still be worked I guess if you are uber sweet. And Type 4 is the easiest to use and the second best boss killer.

That was one long post. I only know that Femto and Tempest play Gradius V, so I hope you guys find it helpful. But god damn it, more people need to play this game!!

EDIT - Fixed some spelling, and if I can think of anything else or change my opinion after further playing, I will post it. But for now, I think that is a pretty good synopsis.

Post by **Femto** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:27 am

Alright, I'm going to have to stand up for my Type 2 here.

With Type 1, the level of risk of extremely high. You have concentrate on the position of your options constantly and a lot of times they will not offer you enough protection. Still, the fact that it's just as easy to concentrate on a boss as it is to concentrate on a group of enemies more than makes up for it. Basically, this Type is potentially be the best, but it requires a lot more work than I'm willing to spend on it.

I think I chose the wrong word with my description of Type 2 Ayanami. It's not so much mobility or manueverability that this Type offers, but flexibility. The level of risk is pretty normal I think, because even if you cannot move, a lot of bullets can be destroyed by the laser AND you can still destroy enemies coming from any direction without worrying about positioning. Directing the options takes only a fraction of a second once you get used to it, so it's not as if you're completely motionless anyway. While the moving back and forth thing with bosses is true, it's not really something that decreases the flexibility of this Type, it just means that bosses will take a few seconds longer to kill. There's also the fact that Type 2 lasers coming from your options are consistent and they aren't intermittent like your normal laser or the lasers coming from other options. That helps a lot in certain situations. And the fact that you can easily shoot backwards/upwards/downwards/diagonally easily makes the most flexible of any other Type. Basically, Type 2 = God.

I haven't really gotten into Type 3, but I do see potential in it. I mean, you can concentrate 5 lasers on a single targer and spread them to offer some kind of protection. Again, I'd have to play it more to be sure, but at this point, it just seems like a watered down version of Type 1.

Type 4 is actually the worst in my opinion. Sure, it offers a lot of protection but with Type 2, you can spin 4 lasers 360 degrees, which ends up being more effective I think. The level of risk can be either low or high depending on if you play it safe or if you go for every little kill (like I do

), but there's no way it can beat the flexibility of being able to shoot diagonally with Type 2, or the positioning of your options with Type 1. Besides, the options are mostly for attacking, you shouldn't have to worry about bullets and stuff if you can dodge things properly.

Basically,
Risk/Reward ratio:
Type 1 > Type 3 > Type 2 > Type 4

Overall:
Type 2 >>>>>>> Type 1 > Type 3 = Type 4

This is all IMO of course.

Post by **Tempest** » Thu May 05, 2005 7:32 pm

Can I buy some pot from you Femto?

Type 2 is not the end all be all. I pretty much exclusively use Type 4. I don't play Gradius as much as I should, and it is the best for newer players. I personally enjoy making Vic a living death beam with all 4 multiples. I dont not like having to sit still when using Type 2, just aint my thing. It seems to me that you have the most risk there because you can get too into flinging your beam around to notice that split in the stage or that little bullet coming your way. And I hate Type 3. Totally teh useless. Sure you can make 5 lasers into a huge one, but you can do that with any type really. Just back up or move forward while not usign the multiple button and they all line up to give you your mega laser. I use that strategy with Type 4 to kill the stage 1 boss before he even gets to do his spin around trick ONCE. The battle lasts all of 30 seconds.

I haven't played Type 2 or 1 enough to really comment a lot on them, but I loves my Type 4.

Post by **Femto** » Thu May 05, 2005 7:42 pm

Tempest wrote:Can I buy some pot from you Femto?

Not from me, but I can hook you up with some pretty good purple haze if you want.

Seriously though, what's with all this Type 2 hating? You can do whatever the hell you want with it! Sure, you have to sit still while moving them but, like I said before, positioning your options takes only a fraction of a second once you get used to it. It's the positioning of the ship that's important really, and seriously, is it THAT hard to let go of R1 when a bullet is coming your way? With Type 2, and proper use of the force field, I haven't gotten hit by a bullet once, it's usually some stupid mistake on my part that ends up killing me.

And just so you know, I also kill the first boss without him doing the spin trick once, but not without taking care of those six things inside the ring for extra points first. Double

!

Post by **Tempest** » Thu May 05, 2005 8:01 pm

Pfft, anyone can destroy them, I evade and let my multiples take the damage. Triple

Post by **Femto** » Thu May 05, 2005 8:07 pm

Post your high score biatch! That's how well settle it!

EDIT: I don't really have to move my ship to kill the first boss and the six little stupid things before it starts to spin.

Post by **Tempest** » Thu May 05, 2005 8:08 pm

Femto wrote:Post your high score biatch! That's how well settle it!

No.

Post by **dos.azn** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:51 pm

hey im lookin to dl some ill shooter games on MAME. anyone remember any of the old school shooters like 19XX?

Post by **Ayanami** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:53 am

Femto wrote:Seriously though, what's with all this Type 2 hating? You can do whatever the hell you want with it!

I don't hate Type 2, I think it is damn good, I just don't think it is god. I just pointed out the flaws because I thought it would put further insight on it. Yes, Type 2 is flexible as all hell, and for that reason, stage 6 is sooooo much easier with Type 2 as opposed to Type 4. I think that Type 2 and 4 are the best of the four because of two main things. Ease of use, and continuous laser. I completely forgot to mention this in my long ass post, but Another thing that makes Type 1 and 3 hard to use is the fact that they do not have a continuous laser. And that hurts. Another thing, the "shield" of Type 4 handles most scenarios in the game with ease, and I assure you that I kill damn near every thing on the screen as well, how else would I get my high score. Stage 6 is just a bastard with Type 4, not impossible though. I almost have it figured out. And the fact of the matter is that Type 4 kills bosses MUCH faster than Type 2, hell, I can kill bosses faster with Type 2 than I can 3, so I think myself pretty good with it. But the tap tap option command on Type 4 just makes it a breeze for bosses.

Aight, I hope I covered the rest. Type 4 and Type 2 > Type 1 > Type 3

dos.azn wrote:hey im lookin to dl some ill shooter games on MAME. anyone remember any of the old school shooters like 19XX?

Try 1944 the Loop Master. Really freaking hard.
Also try this classic, Battle Garega. I am not sure if I spelled this right.
And one more, Layer Section, aka Gunlock, aka Galactic Attack, aka RayBlast. This one is one of my favs.

Post by **Femto** » Fri May 06, 2005 11:39 am

I still don't see why you think that the tap-tap thing with Type 4 is that much.

I tried playing with Type 4 today and lost all of my lifes by the time I got to the bosses in the second stage. I blame it partly on my inexperience with Type 4, but there were still a few enemies that I had to let go and a few situations that got needlessly complicated because of it. Why are you even saying that Type 4 is better than 2, when the highest score you've posted was done with Type 2?

Type 2 > Type 4

Nuff' said.

Post by **Ayanami** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:19 am

Femto wrote:I still don't see why you think that the tap-tap thing with Type 4 is that much.

I tried playing with Type 4 today and lost all of my lifes by the time I got to the bosses in the second stage. I blame it partly on my inexperience with Type 4, but there were still a few enemies that I had to let go and a few situations that got needlessly complicated because of it. Why are you even saying that Type 4 is better than 2, when the highest score you've posted was done with Type 2?

Type 2 > Type 4

Nuff' said.

I said that Type 4 and Type 2 beat out the rest of the types, not that Type 4 is the best. I am really undecided about which of the two is the "best." Considering that I do great with both. But the way I look at it, I kill more enemies and get higher scores for stages 2-5 with Type 4, and I only get a higher score in stage 1 and 6 with Type 2. With a little more practice I will be able to conquer that god damn stage 6 with Type 4, which is the MAIN hinderence in my Type 4 score. Stage 6 is the only stage that seemingly forces you to use Type 2. I like playing all the Types and find them all fun to play. I just think that Type 4 helps you out in most of the stages except stage 6. Plus, Type 4 is a lot better in stage 7 than Type 2. Because you have no time change the direction of your options. (Stage 7 is the speed level.) I really think that it is possible to do great with all the Types, but to me, for most of the game, I have to work the least with Type 4. So in short, Stage 6 is the bane of every Type besides Type 2.

EDIT - Boy I just keep sounding like I am bashing Type 2 in all of my posts. What I wanted to say that as of now, Type 2 and 4 are pretty equal to me. But I see myself doing better with Type 4 in the future once I have figured out stage 6.

And another thing, I don't know what to say about your experience with Type 4, but I can kill several bosses far faster with Type 4 than with Type 2, 3, hell even 1 on some bosses.

And one more thing Femto, what speed do you play at?? Like how many speed ups do you enhance your Vic Viper with??

Post by **Femto** » Sat May 07, 2005 2:00 am

Meh, it's just a matter of opinion really. The different options are available so that people can play the stupid game the way they want to. There isn't a really a godly Type for everybody, because not everybody tackles the game the same way. I was just in the mood for a discussion I guess.

That being said, for ME:
Type 2 >>>>>> Type 1 > Type 4 = Type 3

Ayanami wrote:And one more thing Femto, what speed do you play at?? Like how many speed ups do you enhance your Vic Viper with??

I was actually wanting to ask you the same thing. I think three is plenty, four if I'm feeling bold.

Post by **halfnhalf** » Sat May 07, 2005 2:05 am

damn i got a bunch of shooters on mame and kawaks, but i suck too much in them so bleh...

as for shooters... anyone play phoenix on the ti-83plus? omg that game im sooo good at.. all those math classes forgetton from playing that game soo much... i had soo many high scores for that game... now that was a shooter i was good at.

Post by **Ayanami** » Sat May 07, 2005 6:26 am

Femto wrote:I was actually wanting to ask you the same thing. I think three is plenty, four if I'm feeling bold.

You actually power up your speed three times??

Or do you power it up twice to get a speed of "3??" I power it up twice, and that is more than enough if you ask me. But hats off to ya if you can dodge those really precise moments with that kind of speed.

Yeah, the Type is just a matter of opinion in the end, but got damn it, I tried to explain the reasoning behind my option selection to the best of my ability. And I can get pretty heated in a discussion some times, all and all though, good stuff Femto.

When are you gonna be able to play and post a score again, I am hoping I can get around to it tomorrow. Heh heh.

Post by **Femto** » Sat May 07, 2005 8:19 am

I power it up three times, two with the very first two capsules in the first stage and an extra one at the end of the stage once I'm fully powered up. I've actually been playing on and off, but for some reason I can't concentrate properly and I've been dying in the most shameful ways. I haven't been able to pass 1300000 for a while now.

I'll try again some time later.

EDIT: Femto - 1,423,950 - Stage 1-6 - Type 2

Lost like three freakin' lives against the fifth stage boss. Got into the sixth stage with only a single life and I lost it early on, but I'm getting there.

Post by **Ayanami** » Sat May 07, 2005 2:35 pm

Powering up your speed three times, that is crazy. Don't you find your self running into bullets on accident too often because of your speed?? Well, to each his own I guess.

Here is the deal with my play right now, I can get through stages 1-4 with Types 2 and 4 no problem with out losing a single ship. Stage 5 however, I can get through the stage fairly consistantly with Type 2, almost a sure thing with Type 4, but as for the boss.... It seems that no matter what I have to lose a life or two on that bastard on both Types, oh well. Then there is dreaded stage 6. I have almost got the hang of it with both Types, but it is still hard as hell. Farthest I got was the third boss in the boss parade. After that, "You Lose."

Post by **Femto** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:05 pm

I don't get hit by bullets really, even with speed 4x, it's usually something stupid that kills me. I think the third speed up gives me more flexibilty in a lot of areas. It lets me go for that crazy move that is risky as hell, yet complete bliss when you pull it off, specially in stage 5 and it's hellish boss. And remember it's better to have extra speed than to need more.

I've actually gotten past the ooze part in stage 6 only once before, and it was when I was still starting off with 5 lives. As I said before, I got there with a single life in the latest high score I posted and I lost it early on when I got to the ooze. I lose too many lives for being reckless though, so I'm confident I can get further once I hone my mad skillz.