Berserk 301 - Confusion

[Istvan]

Again, I think you're missing the point, Grahf. Guts was far more than just a "chess piece" to Griffith, even the "most important" one. Guts was the only friend Griffith had had in his entire life (whether Griffith realized that he was a friend before he left or not), and Griffith had grown to rely on him quite a bit, both as a sounding board, a moral compass, a source of emotional support who didn't see Griffith as an infallible near-god, and so on. As Eldo says, anyone else wouldn't have mattered; but Guts not just leaving but (apparently) rejecting him...no. That's more than could be born.

[Grahf]

Again, I think you're missing the point, Grahf. Guts was far more than just a "chess piece" to Griffith, even the "most important" one. Guts was the only friend Griffith had had in his entire life (whether Griffith realized that he was a friend before he left or not), and Griffith had grown to rely on him quite a bit, both as a sounding board, a moral compass, a source of emotional support who didn't see Griffith as an infallible near-god, and so on. As Eldo says, anyone else wouldn't have mattered; but Guts not just leaving but (apparently) rejecting him...no. That's more than could be born.

Seems you're making the case right there. O trust me I get the point, its a nice touch. He didn't realize how important of a friend Guts was. Yes yes yes. Then when he did he couldn't handle the fact that Guts not only left but embarrassed him in the process. If it was at that moment or later on Griffith had to know that he would be faced with that situation at one time or another. In my line of work we call that complacency. It is of course human of people to become complacent, hell I've become complacent at times. The difference with me being complacent is that I'm not looking to lead. Griffith was and in a (para)military setting a command doesn't have the right to be complacent. Thus he was mentally unfit to be king.

Lets say if Griffith had given an order that was supposed to be simple. Yet Guts dies because of the nature of the Order does Griffith then go into some mental cocoon? Because he realized that he sent "his best friend" off to die? Does he get over emotional and it clouds his judgement? All what ifs of course but they are all valid questions that can be asked of the one in charge. *shruggs*

Of course I'm sure that somewhere I'm missing some point (somewhere). Frankly speaking if I see a situation that someone in charge of my life has to be calm cool and collected no matter what. Thats the burden of command.

[DrPepperPro]

I feel like we're not discussing Berserk if it's an "if" that defies fate (the storyline). But anyways, Griffith definitely isn't suited to be a king, because Gut's had to leave eventually. I don't know if I'd call him complacent though. Everyone including Griffith didn't expect him to react the way he did, only fate did.

So basically I think that besides what fate had in store for him with Guts joining, befriending, and leaving, he could have been a king easily.

And on a related matter, I wonder if Griffith will ever find out that it was his words that really sparked Guts' desire to leave, or maybe he already knows. If not, I'm thinking that may play into some conversation they have in the future.

[Istvan]

Frankly, Guts dying probably wouldn't have had that kind of effect on Griffith. Yeah, it would have hurt, but he'd have been able to deal with it and move on. It was Guts leaving (in a way that made it seem Guts was utterly rejecting him) that hurt so badly.

But meh. I feel we're starting to talk this subject to death, and there's not really all that much left to say on it. It might be time to just agree to disagree on this one.

[The Herald]

I always felt that Griffith becoming the fifth godhand was both the reversal of being king (someone that everyone knew and was basically a figurehead and could only ineffectively rule his own realm with the counsel of his lords) to being a demon lord, someone who can control the world. I thought that the godhand was the greatest position he could have personally achieved at the time, and right now I do think that he's going for the kingship because he still has that sense of a human dream. If you think about it, the godhand members can control so many aspects of the world, but can't be a part of it. With all of his accomplishments it looks like Griffith could try to really rule the world.

[Buzkashi]

Is this manga any good?

[Starnum]

Is this manga any good?

"You know this, maaannn!"

[DrPepperPro]

And on a related matter, I wonder if Griffith will ever find out that it was his words that really sparked Guts' desire to leave, or maybe he already knows. If not, I'm thinking that may play into some conversation they have in the future.

Oh that was a stupid question. I forgot about when Casca and Guts are talking outside of the wagon right before the eclipse and Griffith overhears them.

[The Herald]

Yeah, that was kinda dumb, that part even made it into the anime. Neither the skullknight nor puck got that honor. Or Silat for that matter.

[Shizuka]

but it wouldn't have worked anyways, all those characters are mostly important in the part after the eclipse

[The Herald]

I know no one knows the answer to this question, but, when will the next Berserk come out?

[Starnum]

You're still not allowed to ask. What if some n00b sees your post and then he thinks it's okay for him to ask too? Do you really want that on your conscience?

[War Machine]

Aiding and abetting a noob is a punishable offense.

[The Herald]

You're right, I thought that a n00b would get that it's a joke by how I worded it and how many posts I've had, but I guess not. I'm still disheartened by this fucking long wait. The least Jump can do is give us a guestimate of when the next one may be out. I don't want to think there's even the smallest chance that it could be another 6 months.

[Istvan]

Jump themselves might not know, though. I mean, if Miura hasn't told them...

[Rolos]

I wouldn't worry about noobs. May be you guys haven't noticed yet, but we haven't been receiving any lately. Only Newbies.
It's not the same thing. I know some people have issues with CTRL ALT DEL, but on this occasion, I find it necessary to use one of it's strips to explain the difference between newbie and noob, in case someone doesn't know of it*.






PD*: Aaaah, who am I kidding, I just wanted to post something funny to make people laugh. Did it work?

PD2: No, I am not a clown. Just wanted to add a little hilarity to these bleak berserk-less times.

[War Machine]

CAD sucks!!!

But I appreciate the sentiment.

[The Herald]

Why do CAD suck? I don't get it, I thought that was funny, at least a little bit. I know I'm going to get flamed for that though ...

[War Machine]

I hate that they are so predictable, uninventive and, for the most part, the jokes are awfully structured. Take this one for example, the joke is decent and I would accept it if he weren't such an amateur at making comics, but the punchline is in the 2nd frame, so the 3rd frame is completely useless:

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20081121

[The Herald]

I don't know why I didn't realize this before, but Miura is a fucking marketing genius. Releasing manga chapters so long after the last ones came out is in most ways dumb, but like the Wii he's using that stupid Japanese supply and demand method of making the public constantly demanding the product. But that's not even his most ingenious marketing ploy. The ploy I speak of is the one where he had the anime made as basically a big commercial for the manga, but had it end right at the great eclipse, making everyone who watched the anime first (like myself) go what the fuck and search out the manga, and then buy it because it's fucking awesome. That damn anime is 12 years old now and Miura isn't dreaming of making another one because of how useful its been so far.

[Sortep]

We probably wouldn't see another anime until berserk is done and muira has died

[DrPepperPro]

So we were talking about Griffith and when Guts left and stuff earlier. I was reading the author's notes at the end of Herbert Mason's telling of Gilgamesh, and he said something that I think explains how Griffith thought and felt after Guts left.

I changed some tenses and pronouns to make it sound like it's referring to Griffith.

He lost the one who he didn't realize enabled him to live in other people's worlds; then he has only his own private world and the almost herculean task of constructing a human reentry. What he finally does, out of desperation to recover the sense of the "outside," is to go on an impossible, or even forbidden, journey or pilgrimage, which from a rational point of view is futile.

Though he's actually talking about death, it's basically the same thing to Griffith when Guts left.

[Nakadai]

Waiting sucks.

[The Prince]

Again, I think you're missing the point, Grahf. Guts was far more than just a "chess piece" to Griffith, even the "most important" one. Guts was the only friend Griffith had had in his entire life (whether Griffith realized that he was a friend before he left or not), and Griffith had grown to rely on him quite a bit, both as a sounding board, a moral compass, a source of emotional support who didn't see Griffith as an infallible near-god, and so on. As Eldo says, anyone else wouldn't have mattered; but Guts not just leaving but (apparently) rejecting him...no. That's more than could be born.

Seems you're making the case right there. O trust me I get the point, its a nice touch. He didn't realize how important of a friend Guts was. Yes yes yes. Then when he did he couldn't handle the fact that Guts not only left but embarrassed him in the process. If it was at that moment or later on Griffith had to know that he would be faced with that situation at one time or another. In my line of work we call that complacency. It is of course human of people to become complacent, hell I've become complacent at times. The difference with me being complacent is that I'm not looking to lead. Griffith was and in a (para)military setting a command doesn't have the right to be complacent. Thus he was mentally unfit to be king.

Lets say if Griffith had given an order that was supposed to be simple. Yet Guts dies because of the nature of the Order does Griffith then go into some mental cocoon? Because he realized that he sent "his best friend" off to die? Does he get over emotional and it clouds his judgement? All what ifs of course but they are all valid questions that can be asked of the one in charge. *shruggs*

Of course I'm sure that somewhere I'm missing some point (somewhere). Frankly speaking if I see a situation that someone in charge of my life has to be calm cool and collected no matter what. Thats the burden of command.

Complacency? Huh, I really find myself struggling to make sense of with your train of thought.

Your entire theory appears predicated on Griffith not being a good leader for not keeping his cool. Despite the fact that all we have known him to be as quite contrary to your assertion.

[Eldo]

I don't know about you, but I sometimes hate it when characters in a book become too human.

I see what Grahf is trying to make here, but I don't necessarily believe that higher ranked people in the army or in parliament are robots.