Evil Genius

Istvan wrote: Two points. First, even "wimpy" Apostles are still very dangerous, and not even Guts could fight very many of them at once. As for Griffith's army being slowly wittled away on a number of missions...possible, but I'd point out that Griffith is not an idiot. I find it hard to picture him making such a stupid mistake.

well he fought sliced through many of them at the witches palce (although i point out that he was in berserk form), if it wasnt for that dragon guy they wouldnt had stood a chance (just my opinion )...

well griffith is no idiot of course...but we dont know whats going on his mind...
perhaps after named king or something he has no need for the apostles anymore so hell send them onto missions to get rid of them...

possibility 2: he wants to strenghten guts (for some kind of reason i dont knoe but it refers to this whole nedfight scenerie) so he sends them onto missions

possibility 3: he kills the apostles himself, for dont needing them anymore...

possibility 4: the emperor kills nearly all apostles before getting defeat (the rest will be taken out by guts or perhaps by this kushan guy dont remember his name though

well in the end i think there is an need for a showdown so although we dont know how it will work...somehow the story will have to get rid of the whole army scenerie...

(well its 4 o clock in the morning where i live so pls dontk ill me fpr grammar mistakes or something )

Aerion wrote:well he fought sliced through many of them at the witches palce (although i point out that he was in berserk form), if it wasnt for that dragon guy they wouldnt had stood a chance (just my opinion )...

I think if Guts would have remained in Berserk form and sliced a shitload of the apostles without Grunbeld's intervention, I think he would have, I don't know, DIED. Mainly because of the Berserker armour's inflicting serious damage on himself, and in the way it 'heals' his wounds. In a way, I guess Grunbeld shortened the fight for him. Oh, and it was all Schierke's too.

As for the possibilities, I think they're stupid. Well, I'll give my 2 cents about each of them onto why.

Aerion wrote:perhaps after named king or something he has no need for the apostles anymore so hell send them onto missions to get rid of them...

Uh, why? Why sent them to missions to just get rid of them? Wouldn't the apostles notice the trend?

They could go back to whatever they were doing pre-eclipse; killing and fucking or whatever in hiding or behind the scenes.

Aerion wrote:possibility 2: he wants to strenghten guts (for some kind of reason i dont knoe but it refers to this whole nedfight scenerie) so he sends them onto missions

That's stupid. Really, it is. Uh, again, why? That sounds incredibly shounen-ish and also, illogical.

Aerion wrote:possibility 3: he kills the apostles himself, for dont needing them anymore...

Or they could go back to whatever they were doing before Griffith recruited them.

But however, are the apostles following Griffith right now, because he is their overlord, or is it because Griffith promised them a slice of what he gets? From what we have seen currently, it seems to point at the former. If that is the case, why kill off such valuable resources?

Aerion wrote:possibility 4: the emperor kills nearly all apostles before getting defeat (the rest will be taken out by guts or perhaps by this kushan guy dont remember his name though

I doubt the Emperor could kill of nearly all the apostles, while he is definitely one of the strongest around, he still can't kick Griffith's arse. See how he trembled and cowered under Griffith's presense?

What kind of tactician would Griffith be, to let the Emperor kill his valuable resources at all? And most importantly, before he has cemented his position as King?

Griffith did not have any of the Hawks murdered before in the Golden era, I don't see why he would do it now. Griffith still draws people with his charisma, pre and post eclipse.

Aerion wrote:well in the end i think there is an need for a showdown so although we dont know how it will work...somehow the story will have to get rid of the whole army scenerie...

(well its 4 o clock in the morning where i live so pls dontk ill me fpr grammar mistakes or something )

Actually, the whole manga has been about army scenarios, so I don't see anything different right now. It won't be exactly easy for Guts to storm into Griffith's pad without an army of the sort. So I think a war with large armies are inevitable.

well got some points there...think i should reconsider
or perhaps reread some chapters...well nvm...at the end my ideas were for the stupid berserk theories threat after all

Eldo wrote:Actually, the whole manga has been about army scenarios, so I don't see anything different right now. It won't be exactly easy for Guts to storm into Griffith's pad without an army of the sort. So I think a war with large armies are inevitable.

well ure right about that ..but it differs in this way that at the beginning with normal human armies guts could take a whole army by hisself..(the 100 men slayer or what he was called)
but i think we have the same opinion about the fact that guts cant kill a whole army of apostles...
my conclusion from these facts is that with those apostles around guts will lose in the end..and hell i dont wanna see that

now its 8 oclock and i havent slept...

*edit*
i didnt read properly eh sry...u mean he will be forging an army ?
but with whom?
hm ok perhaps this elven king or something...

ok i like that idea

Even in the pre-eclipes world, Gut's could not defeat an entire army by himself. 100 men is not even close to being an "army". Don't get me wrong, Guts is amazing, but even now I doubt he could singlehandly slay anything I'd call an army.

As for an army, if you look at it that way, he's already started to form one. Scheirke and Serpico are the only truly useful ones right now, but that's changing, and we don't know who's going to ultimately join up. Let's just wait and see, Miura is really good at this.

I don't know, Guts did a lot of damage during the eclipse and he didn't have the dragon slayer then. Hell, he didn't even have a sword.

Istvan wrote:As for an army, if you look at it that way, he's already started to form one. Scheirke and Serpico are the only truly useful ones right now, but that's changing, and we don't know who's going to ultimately join up. Let's just wait and see, Miura is really good at this.

that would mean that he really need to comeup witch a big bunch of new characters...
well i refer to ur wait and see and i will wait and see

I don't know, Guts did a lot of damage during the eclipse and he didn't have the dragon slayer then. Hell, he didn't even have a sword.

Indeed he did. But you note that he did loose in the end. And he was also more "berserk" then we've probably ever seen him, before or since. Even with the Dragon slayer, if we look at his fights, he often has a difficult time against strong Apostles. By now he could probably defeat a dozen normal level Apostles by himself, but that's still nowhere near the level of an "army".

Gatsu may end up teaming up with Zodd... They already pay some respect to each other, and had to join forces in the past... Together they have strength which Griffith doesnt have. Because, there're another powers in that world than 'dark' power of apostles, say Shierke's magic is something Griffith cant do.

that's totally impossible, i think Gatsu (this is the real spelling of his name) will conclude his battle alone. At least the Skeleton Knight will help him against the others of the God Hand, and against Zodd, of course.

Agarash wrote:Gatsu (this is the real spelling of his name)

No it isn't shut up. [/rage]

Don't propagate the retardo-fansub spelling of his name, even if you intended to type "gattsu" which is the proper romanization of ガッツ.

And ガッツ is, in turn, the kanafication (or whatever) of the English word "guts".

Actually, probably for pronunciation reasons, the spelling of Guts' name is different depending on what language it was localized to. I believe it is Gatsu in the official German version as well, but for the english language version, Guts is the spelling Miura decided on, so both are right depending on where you are.

And I write it Gatts - that's the version that come on my mangas (Brazil ).

You can write almost anything that you want, just don't say "such name is right and such name is wrong"...

Fighting over Guts's name how silly Sounds like a discussion for the newbie discussion thread

Anyway I dont think Guts will go into the fight alone but he might come out of it alone I think that everyone will be powerful enough to face apostles when they get back from Elfheim, but only Guts, SK, and Sherike will be able to face members of the God hand... 3 on 5 not really fair but you never know a couple of them might be push overs but I doubt it

You actually think that they'll be able to fight God's Hand? SK I can see, but I doubt the other two (especially Schierke, since Guts has a sword specializing in killing Astral beings) will be up to that level for quite a while yet. Also, what makes you think they'll be fighting them all at the same time. The God's Hand don't really seem to act in unison all that often. But then, when you're as powerful as they are, why bother?

Griffith took out Flora because she was a witch, and by the time Schierke gets back I am pretty sure she will be just as powerful if not more powerful

And your right I dont think that they will face them all at once but I am pretty sure Guts wont stop until they are all dead.

Griffith took out Flora because she was a witch, and by the time Schierke gets back I am pretty sure she will be just as powerful if not more powerful

True, but that doesn't mean that Flora would have beaten him in a one-on-one confrontation. I would guess that she was actually quite a bit weaker then he is. But, unlike most people, she can be at least a minor threat, it is possible for her to hurt him. Given how few people that is true for since his rebirth, it would make sense to try to eliminate even "minor" threats.

And your right I dont think that they will face them all at once but I am pretty sure Guts wont stop until they are all dead.

Undoubtably. Guts and the words, "give up" or "forgiveness" just don't go together.

Dront wrote:Gatsu may end up teaming up with Zodd... They already pay some respect to each other, and had to join forces in the past... Together they have strength which Griffith doesnt have. Because, there're another powers in that world than 'dark' power of apostles, say Shierke's magic is something Griffith cant do.

There is NO way that he'll team up with Zodd, yes, they do respect each other, the same way any two great foes have to. They hate each other, but there can be respect despite that. Not only that, Griffith would have to do something so... un-Griffith like to make Zodd leave as his second in command.

Zodd might decide to leave on his own you know, history repeating and all.

Wandering_Mystic wrote:Actually, probably for pronunciation reasons, the spelling of Guts' name is different depending on what language it was localized to.

Well yeah, I use "Gatts" when discussing Berserk (Bärsärk) in Swedish. It's the "lulz hes name is gatsu nub" that gets to me.

Agarash wrote:that's totally impossible, i think Gatsu (this is the real spelling of his name) will conclude his battle alone. At least the Skeleton Knight will help him against the others of the God Hand, and against Zodd, of course.

[sarcasm]ZOMGWTFBBQ, its Skullknight not Skeleton Knight... [/sarcasm]

Anywho, as you demonstrated, there are many ways to spell people's name, Dark Horse with Miura's blessing has standardized it to Guts here in the States, Gatts in Sweden, and etc.

So, saying one way is the 'real spelling' is dishonest and naive.

Zodd might decide to leave on his own you know, history repeating and all.

Not likely, if you consider everything we've heard so far about how Apostles feel about being close to a God's Hand. Also, since Idea is the one that shaped that original history, why would it shape things for Zodd to leave? That makes no sense at all.

lol
that was just the romanization of his name (that is with 2 't', i've mistaken it). I've never said "use this name because it's the real one", i just said "this is the correct Japanese SPELLING", and i like to call him like this, Gattsu.

Skeleton Knight..oops...i didn't know how to translate it from italian to english, that was the first name that came to my mind.

Agarash wrote:lol
that was just the romanization of his name (that is with 2 't', i've mistaken it). I've never said "use this name because it's the real one", i just said "this is the correct Japanese SPELLING", and i like to call him like this, Gattsu.

Skeleton Knight..oops...i didn't know how to translate it from italian to english, that was the first name that came to my mind.

You are wrong again, here... I'll quote you verbatim.

Gatsu (this is the real spelling of his name)

Since there are several ways to transcribe Japanese names, you can't even say "this is the real spelling of his name" without being 1) dishonest and 2) naive.

Now, I understand there is a bit of a language barrier and some people can't get words just right, that is understandable. However, that being said, Gatsu is among many 'ok' names which are just as valid as Gattz and Guts.

Gatsu is _not_ the 'real' spelling, it would be in the original language, as inked by Miura, not the romanization of the name.

Istvan wrote:

Zodd might decide to leave on his own you know, history repeating and all.

Not likely, if you consider everything we've heard so far about how Apostles feel about being close to a God's Hand. Also, since Idea is the one that shaped that original history, why would it shape things for Zodd to leave? That makes no sense at all.

Just drawing some parallels between Guts and Zodd, there are some similarities. And I get the feeling that Zodd is somewhat different than normal apostles (Guts was different too, in that he was not part of the so called "bonfire of dreams"). But of course the similarities only run so far; Zodd certainly doesn't have the same emotional value to Griffith as Guts had.

I've come to accept it as Guts however Gatts just seems much more satisfying to me... maybe because my old vhs fansubs have it that way and it was how I was introduced... Guts always seemed like a geekier way of saying his name... I dunno like I said I've accepted it even if in my mind I always think Gatts first.