Evil Genius

True dat

Ayanami wrote:the religious symbolism in Eva

You missed the point, but whatever.

Ayanami wrote:Nothing to do with Fanboyism, Bebop is just the more well done and superior show. As much as I love Toriyama's art work, (probably butchering his name) and the religious symbolism in Eva, the fact is both shows have piss poor character development, rather flat characters if you will compared to Bebop. Story, character, and just all around style and execution, Bebop kills both.

I disagree with that. I'm not going to argue that Bebop beats DBZ, for as awesome as it was, it lacked substance. However, Eva is the superior one in all of those categories you mentioned. Hell, the whole series is practically about developing the characters, so that they can experience Instrumentality. Otherwise, the many in-depth ways they analyzed and further developed the characters at the end wouldn't have held as much weight. Cowboy Bebop is great, but it's really pretty random and episodic except for a handful of episodes here and there, and the ending. However, ultimately, it's subjective. It's just a matter of opinion. So, arguing about which one is "better" is pretty pointless, because the chances of anyone changing their "opinion" is pretty low. Although, it does seem a bit much to say it's better than not only DBZ, but DBZ and Eva combined, but that's just my opinion. *shrugs*

MrFelony wrote:why dont you just resize your signature instead Shin...

I don't think my body can take it.

Eva is pretty bad.

For a show that tries to tell a larger story, a lot of the episodes can be pretty much removed from the series altogether without having any effect on the plot whatsoever.

Shinji has zero character development throughout the whole series.

Every character in Eva is one cliche after the next (except for maybe Misato, maybe).

Bebop is extremely subtle whereas Eva is just screaming teen drama.

The thing with Eva is that most of us watched it in our teens, so it was easier for us to relate to the teen angst in the series.

I assure you (I don't know who I'm directed this post at) that if we'd watched Eva in our mid-20's or 30's, we'd have a different opinion of the show.

Heck, I'm only 22 and Eva already disgusts me and I'm pretty ashamed of myself for getting to like that teen drama bullshit show so much.

And LordMune doesn't get Bebop because he's still like 12.

Femto wrote:Shinji has zero character development throughout the whole series.

Every character in Eva is one cliche after the next (except for maybe Misato, maybe).

Yep, that's a fact jack. The characters are very flat in Eva. If you prefer the movie ending, which most do, all of the characters hardly change especially Shinji. Shinji is possibly the worst protagonist evar.

Ayanami wrote:Shinji is possibly the worst protagonist evar.

You missed the point by hitting the nail on the head. Cool.

Femto wrote:Eva is pretty bad.

For a show that tries to tell a larger story, a lot of the episodes can be pretty much removed from the series altogether without having any effect on the plot whatsoever.

Shinji has zero character development throughout the whole series.

Every character in Eva is one cliche after the next (except for maybe Misato, maybe).

Bebop is extremely subtle whereas Eva is just screaming teen drama.

The thing with Eva is that most of us watched it in our teens, so it was easier for us to relate to the teen angst in the series.

I assure you (I don't know who I'm directed this post at) that if we'd watched Eva in our mid-20's or 30's, we'd have a different opinion of the show.

Heck, I'm only 22 and Eva already disgusts me and I'm pretty ashamed of myself for getting to like that teen drama bullshit show so much.

And LordMune doesn't get Bebop because he's still like 12.

Can I worship you?

The same way a lot of people liked EVA because they were teens probably applies to Bebop as well. It was the show that introduced a lot of people to anime via Adult Swim on Cartoon Network (in its infancy). I was introduced well before then, in the mid 90's, and so I don't look on to Cowboy Bebop with as much nostalgia and such. Good series, but not the best i've ever seen.

I compare it to FF7. It's the most popular RPG and consistantly voted the best more because of the fact that most people who started playing RPGs started with FF7 than the fact that it is a meritable game. In reality, FF7 is a decent game. The graphics were not as groundbreaking as people assume, nor were the characters really all that great or well developed. Most were rather cliche in fact, and the story behind FF7 is rather weak and imo pretty gay lol. It even tries to be dramatic by killing off a main character in a way that is utterly futile and meaningless.

It is also the game I consider to be the beginning of the end of the great gameplay and story driven RPGs - the point at which an RPG becomes more of "a bit of playing inbetween stunning CGI scenes" instead of a really in depth and involved game with strong showings all around. A game instead of an interactive movie. This is evidenced by the RPGs that are coming out being shorter and shorter with more reliance on graphics and CGI and fewer true challenges other than ubsurdly difficult optional bosses throw in just to tack a few more hours onto the gameplay. FF6 and FF4 are the best of the series, and were my favorite RPGs until I picked up a little game called Suikoden 2 and was introduced to what is, imo, the greatest RPG series ever .

Anyways, got off topic! Adult Swim is ruining anime for me (already has, really), and the start of it all was Bebop. I love the series, and it is certainly solid, but with such a cast of varying characters i'd have rather seen more involved episodes with all of them off on whatever little thing they are doing instead of every episode having a main character focus and then just a few tiny subplots thrown in. I would also have liked to have seen a recurring subplot in the series, you really get the feeling that all the episodes up to the last few are rather meaningless.

/endrant
/duck and cover - incoming FF7 Fanboy rants >.<

FF7 fucking sucks.

LordMune wrote:

Ayanami wrote:Shinji is possibly the worst protagonist evar.

You missed the point by hitting the nail on the head. Cool.

OMG that's soooo deep. My god EVA is sooo much more than a mecha series, it's like a metaphor for life, or something. I'm gonna go listen to Linkin Park now.

Like I said, shows like DBZ and EVA are like wrestling (at least in terms of American wrestling), you are drawn in by the action and easy to follow plot lines, and over time you become disallusioned with it, and the suspension of disbelief just goes out the window. I'll still flip over to Monday Night RAW for a while and get some enjoyment out of it, but not nearly as much as I did back in middle school. Same goes with EVA and DBZ. I'll watch it, but the flaws become sooooo much more apparent since I've (supposedly) come into maturity. Don't worry, you'll see the light. It'll be about the same time you start growing hair in wierd places and decide to start talking to girls, cooties be damned!


Femto, you gotta beat some sense into your boy.

EvilDmitri wrote:I compare it to FF7. It's the most popular RPG and consistantly voted the best more because of the fact that most people who started playing RPGs started with FF7 than the fact that it is a meritable game....FF6 and FF4 are the best of the series

Welcome to my world. I try people these things but they look at me like I'm speaking Portuguese to them. Many people got their first look at RPGs from it, and it has put a false perception of what all RPGs are like or should be like. That and crappy game magazines that will whore their love and adoration out for a price. But that's another topic.

As for AS ruining anime? I can't really put all the blame on them. They've said a few times that they would love to put on something like Berserk, but the censors would have a field day on it. They work with what they've got. I put a large portion of the blame on the people who tell us what is and is not approriate for TV. Religous fundamentalists, Safety Moms, the whole lot of them.

Tempest wrote:

LordMune wrote:

Ayanami wrote:Shinji is possibly the worst protagonist evar.

You missed the point by hitting the nail on the head. Cool.

OMG that's soooo deep. My god EVA is sooo much more than a mecha series, it's like a metaphor for life, or something. I'm gonna go listen to Linkin Park now.

I'm at a loss for words. Watch GunBuster or something, and then tell me Evangelion 'is just a mecha series'. It has mechas, that's about it. It shares very few narrative mechanics with mecha shows. Yet, it's not a metaphor for life, and the scope of its message is much, much narrower than most, critics and fans alike, seem to think.

Like I said, shows like DBZ and EVA are like wrestling (at least in terms of American wrestling), you are drawn in by the action and easy to follow plot lines, and over time you become disallusioned with it, and the suspension of disbelief just goes out the window. I'll still flip over to Monday Night RAW for a while and get some enjoyment out of it, but not nearly as much as I did back in middle school. Same goes with EVA and DBZ. I'll watch it, but the flaws become sooooo much more apparent since I've (supposedly) come into maturity. Don't worry, you'll see the light. It'll be about the same time you start growing hair in wierd places and decide to start talking to girls, cooties be damned!

I lost you when you lumped Evangelion and DragonBallZ together.

EvilDmitri wrote:I compare it to FF7. It's the most popular RPG and consistantly voted the best more because of the fact that most people who started playing RPGs started with FF7 than the fact that it is a meritable game....FF6 and FF4 are the best of the series

Welcome to my world. I try people these things but they look at me like I'm speaking Portuguese to them. Many people got their first look at RPGs from it, and it has put a false perception of what all RPGs are like or should be like. That and crappy game magazines that will whore their love and adoration out for a price. But that's another topic.

I think the blame lies more with Nomura than gaming magazines, on the whoring charge. The man is incompetent in all ways but the ones that matter to FFVII fanboys.

EDIT: Split thread to the Interstice, title it Fanboy Bullshit?

Tempest wrote:

LordMune wrote:

Ayanami wrote:Shinji is possibly the worst protagonist evar.

You missed the point by hitting the nail on the head. Cool.

OMG that's soooo deep. My god EVA is sooo much more than a mecha series, it's like a metaphor for life, or something. I'm gonna go listen to Linkin Park now.

Like I said, shows like DBZ and EVA are like wrestling (at least in terms of American wrestling), you are drawn in by the action and easy to follow plot lines, and over time you become disallusioned with it, and the suspension of disbelief just goes out the window. I'll still flip over to Monday Night RAW for a while and get some enjoyment out of it, but not nearly as much as I did back in middle school. Same goes with EVA and DBZ. I'll watch it, but the flaws become sooooo much more apparent since I've (supposedly) come into maturity. Don't worry, you'll see the light. It'll be about the same time you start growing hair in wierd places and decide to start talking to girls, cooties be damned!


Femto, you gotta beat some sense into your boy.

EvilDmitri wrote:I compare it to FF7. It's the most popular RPG and consistantly voted the best more because of the fact that most people who started playing RPGs started with FF7 than the fact that it is a meritable game....FF6 and FF4 are the best of the series

Welcome to my world. I try people these things but they look at me like I'm speaking Portuguese to them. Many people got their first look at RPGs from it, and it has put a false perception of what all RPGs are like or should be like. That and crappy game magazines that will whore their love and adoration out for a price. But that's another topic.

As for AS ruining anime? I can't really put all the blame on them. They've said a few times that they would love to put on something like Berserk, but the censors would have a field day on it. They work with what they've got. I put a large portion of the blame on the people who tell us what is and is not approriate for TV. Religous fundamentalists, Safety Moms, the whole lot of them.

I wouldn't want them to put Berserk on air. I mean they have ruined anime by introducing it to the general populace, and as we all know, the general populace is 95% retarded . They think Inu Yasha is a great and original anime, when it is really just a show geared to appeal to various kinds of fanboys (giant weapons, demons, etc).

It is my firm belief that anything new, unsoiled, and original generally becomes bastardized shortly after becoming popular with the American public. This county knows how to take something that is truely unique (such as Anime fandom used to be back in the 90's) and turn it into something bland and commercialized in a short few years. I loved anime. Watched it all the time from about '95 till '00. Nobody had a CLUE what it was around here.. it was special in that way. Something unique and "crazy" to others straight out of Japan. That has changed completely now and every one and their brother thinks they know what a quality anime series is when really it is just bland crap which just happens to appeal to American's poor sense of taste.

The comparison to FF7 is simple. FF7 isn't a great RPG, and yet SOO many people will tell you that it is the greatest RPG ever when really it is just the first one they ever played so they think they know everything about the subject. The first RPG I ever played was FF1 on NES, and really I thought FF7 was a mediorce game. The new wave of RPG fans is just like the new wave of Anime fans.. terrible misinformed and misguided. They all need to go play the classics and see what a gameplay driven RPG or a plot and character driven Anime series is all about.. but really with how people are, they would rather see an RPG that is more like a movie with a bit of interaction than an actually involved game.. and they would rather see an anime that is big tits and fan service or lots of needless drama instead of one that actually builds on strong character development and a convincing and involving plot line.

Just because Bebop was on Adult Swim and introduced into the general public does not mean it is any less the anime it is. I saw Bebop way before Adult Swim, and I still think it is one of the best if not the best anime out there. The fact that Bebop is episodic really helps it IMO. Considering Bebop is more about the characters and what not than a giant retarded conspiracy or evil power trying to conquer the world kind of deal.

And of course FF7 sucks. Cloud is a lot like Shinji. A complete douche bag in which you can't believe that this is the bastard that is going to save the world. I wanted Cloud to just die after the whole coma part of the story.

The best RPGs don't have the name Final Fantasy in them.

Ayanami wrote:Just because Bebop was on Adult Swim and introduced into the general public does not mean it is any less the anime it is. I saw Bebop way before Adult Swim, and I still think it is one of the best if not the best anime out there. The fact that Bebop is episodic really helps it IMO. Considering Bebop is more about the characters and what not than a giant retarded conspiracy or evil power trying to conquer the world kind of deal.

And of course FF7 sucks. Cloud is a lot like Shinji. A complete douche bag in which you can't believe that this is the bastard that is going to save the world. I wanted Cloud to just die after the whole coma part of the story.

The best RPGs don't have the name Final Fantasy in them.

Bebop is great, I really loved the music in it, but I just don't remember it as being THAT great. I guess it's because I haven't watched it in a long while.. I had the Perfect Sessions limited edition box set (bought for 200 bucks and it was selling for 400+ on e-bay within 6 months >.<).. but my mom stepped on the box, destroying it o.O. Guess i'll have to refresh my memory on it been too disaffected with anime lately. It's still a good series, and yeah adding a recurring plot might have been stupid (though I think they could have made a good plot out of what they had and not have it end up cliche), i'm just mad at what has become of Anime >.<. Maybe i'll just become a manga recluse, or say screw it all and find something else to do

Not all new anime sucks balls. Full Metal Alchemist is pretty good, and so is Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex.

In retrospect, FMA really is little more than over-pretentious shounen action.

The SAC GIGs were a great, fresh take on source material that had until recently been sadly neglected by the medium it is perhaps best suited for.

2nd GIG and Solid State Society are awesome, at least. 1st GIG was, again, overly pretentious and slow as hell.

Ayanami wrote:Not all new anime sucks balls. Full Metal Alchemist is pretty good, and so is Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex.

Nah but there is an influx of more "crap". I swear i've seen a preview for an anime where the women had breasts large enough to conceal weaponry.. AND DID. Ridiculous fanboy driven series make me a saaad panda

One of the main reasons why a lot of crap is out there is because a lot more anime is being published because of the increase in popularity.

I don't know what the fuck is going on in this thread anymore but Mune should stop pretending to be so high above fanboyism because he's not.

Eva sucks, FFVII sucks and Cowboy Bebop might very well be the best anime series ever.

So have I spoken.

And so it shall be written.

Femto wrote:I don't know what the fuck is going on in this thread anymore but Mune should stop pretending to be so high above fanboyism because he's not.

Eva sucks, FFVII sucks and Cowboy Bebop might very well be the best anime series ever.

So have I spoken.

Quote me saying I'm high above fanboyism plz. I've merely been highlighting that this whole argument is retarded.

(Chrono Trigger, now that game kicks ass.)

LordMune wrote:Quote me saying I'm high above fanboyism plz.

Of course I won't be able to quote because you didn't fucking say it.

Douchebag A: "Hey Mune, you're a retard."

LordMune, a.k.a. Douchebag B: "Quote me saying that I'm a retard!"

You're a real dumbass sometimes.

Is this argument retarded?

I don't know.

I don't even remember who started this shit.

I do know it wasn't me for once.

Femto wrote:I don't know what the fuck is going on in this thread anymore but Mune should stop pretending to be so high above fanboyism because he's not.

Eva sucks, FFVII sucks and Cowboy Bebop might very well be the best anime series ever.

So have I spoken.

No, you suck. Get over yourself already.