Evil Genius

Maybe that's his plan?

Have Gutts swing and destroy the pillars then let the ceiling collapse on him while Serpico flees.

Libaax wrote:So what even if he plans something its not like he have seen Guts real strength cause Guts havent need to fight seriously for many years.

That's so untrue!! Remember when Guts was fighting with that dragon like apostle, when he had to use berserker armor for the first time! You call it a not serious fight??

It's not like Guts would use the Berserker Armor against Serpico. That would be instant death for Serpico.

and possibly for his friends as well. Guts is gonna enjoy this fight because it will be so different from all his other fights. It will be basically like fighting griffith all over again.

MrFelony wrote:and possibly for his friends as well. Guts is gonna enjoy this fight because it will be so different from all his other fights. It will be basically like fighting griffith all over again.

That's an interesting parallel that I hadn't drawn. Kind of almost gives it the spin that Serpico is in Gattsu's shoes and Gattsu in Griffith's, seeing as how Serpico is fighting for his own ambition, and Gattsu is, in some respects, fighting to keep Serpico in his troup.

Of course, Gattsu is going to win. Serpico's best interest is really in sticking with him.

Starnum wrote:Yeah, I'm sure Serpico has got an even better tactic than last time, but we all know how this will most likely turn out. Anyway, speaking of using the Berserker Armor. I sure hope something happens so that he can master it, otherwise he should just get rid of it. I mean, if he's going to have to be rescued from the armor every time, it's just not worth it. However, I think if he can find a way to use it without losing complete control; that would be cool. That may defeat the purpose of the armor though... I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I agree. The armor uncontrolled will only lead to more tragedy. Yet the key to overcoming the armor is the same key that would save his soul from the darkness. He would have to master his own emotions, and thereby vanquish his inner demon.

Makes me wonder how that would affect his fighting ability. Anyone who knows any kind of fighting skill/style could tell you that emotions only get in the way of being a better fighter, but by now Guts has built up so much strength, it's hard to tell whether it's the anger and hatred that fuels him or whether he's using the strength he gradually gained up until the eclipse. Remember that even before the eclipse he took on an apostle and won, or at least he would have won if he had known to cut off the damn thing's head and smash it to bits.

Guess we still have to wait quite a while before we see anything like him overcoming his emotions happening though...

Well, if the berserker armour was no longer... berserker armour... wouldn't it not be very... Berserk?

Wandering_Mystic wrote:

Starnum wrote:Yeah, I'm sure Serpico has got an even better tactic than last time, but we all know how this will most likely turn out. Anyway, speaking of using the Berserker Armor. I sure hope something happens so that he can master it, otherwise he should just get rid of it. I mean, if he's going to have to be rescued from the armor every time, it's just not worth it. However, I think if he can find a way to use it without losing complete control; that would be cool. That may defeat the purpose of the armor though... I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I agree. The armor uncontrolled will only lead to more tragedy. Yet the key to overcoming the armor is the same key that would save his soul from the darkness. He would have to master his own emotions, and thereby vanquish his inner demon.

Makes me wonder how that would affect his fighting ability. Anyone who knows any kind of fighting skill/style could tell you that emotions only get in the way of being a better fighter, but by now Guts has built up so much strength, it's hard to tell whether it's the anger and hatred that fuels him or whether he's using the strength he gradually gained up until the eclipse. Remember that even before the eclipse he took on an apostle and won, or at least he would have won if he had known to cut off the damn thing's head and smash it to bits.

Guess we still have to wait quite a while before we see anything like him overcoming his emotions happening though...

Iono maybe getting rid of that demon would be a good thing ... remember when he wanted to leave the hawks he and Griffith went at it ... before the duel Griffith said ...

" I sense no anger or hatred in him, he's empty, clear present."

he is a totally different person now, but If he got rid of the demon he would fight for the total opposite of what he's fighting for now ... Instead of revenge, hatred ... it would be for his comrades and his love for Casca ... but this has probably be talked about before, excuse my thinking out loud ...

well there is a difference in those guts. the clear thinking guts was doing some he is focused in on. its not based on revenge or hatred like his post-eclispse self. after the eclipse he begins to focus on his hate and rage adn et cetera that the 'demon' is born from

akari wrote:

Libaax wrote:So what even if he plans something its not like he have seen Guts real strength cause Guts havent need to fight seriously for many years.

That's so untrue!! Remember when Guts was fighting with that dragon like apostle, when he had to use berserker armor for the first time! You call it a not serious fight??

Yeah but that fight was so short that Guts didnt have time to go allout. Guts is at his beat when he is almost dead.

Wandering_Mystic wrote:Makes me wonder how that would affect his fighting ability. Anyone who knows any kind of fighting skill/style could tell you that emotions only get in the way of being a better fighter, but by now Guts has built up so much strength, it's hard to tell whether it's the anger and hatred that fuels him or whether he's using the strength he gradually gained up until the eclipse.

A berserker does not feel emotions or perhaps not pain either. It is like a trance like state of mind, a state of pure relentless and indiscriminate fury. That is why a berserker can kill friends and loved ones in his berserker state without flinching or even realizing it. They are kind of a human version of a fire and forget weapon. Once you have started one of them babies up you just need to throw it somewhere in the middle of your enemies and play the waiting game. They are not the type to fight alongside Comrades or war buddies, they kill everything within the reach of their sword and feet and usually don't stop till they've made the area as barren as gender confused neutered giraffe.

I doubt such a state can be controlled, so Guts will just have to fight alone or learn not to go berserker.

Serpico what does he plan to acomplish, he cant bet Guts he knows that, so is Guts going to take his life just like Griffith took his? So if the party gets crashed by the Kushan familar cat I wonder if Serpico will be in time to save Farnase? If Farnase dies Serpico will see the error of his and fight for what Farnase was fighting for..... Guts.

Guts without his inner demon, all his anger and pain, that would take away his berserker rage and make him a mere human.

Guts as a Human was still bad ass, I wonder how good he would have got without all the drama, but then there wouldnt be a berserk.

If the scenario was the same (big bad ass apostles roaming the world looking for a big hero to kill them) then in my opinion he would be just as good. and i believe 9/10 (psychiatric) doctors would agree.

Come on peoples, Wyald, remember Wyald! How much more badass can you get to take on a demon like that by yourself, no brand, no super sword, no cannon, no magic aura, no gay elves? This was before the eclipse too, so Guts had no excuse of being "more than human" or some other bullshit like that. He didn't even have rage then, just his old fighting instinct and his desire to protect Caska. And his massively obscene strength, which he earned on his own. I think too many people are entirely too happy at seeing a mindless, enraged Guts emerge and make a bloody mess of everything. Rage is not Guts' key to his strength. He got strong on his own, with a bit of help from some instinct to survive that he was struggling to understand his whole life.

Don't get me wrong though. The manga is called berserk for a reason, and it is integral to the plot and the story that is being told. But it seems too easy to confuse that with the origins of Guts' strength, and I think misunderstanding that would make one miss out on a lot that berserk has to offer. I tire of these talks of "human" vs "more-than-human". It doesn't feel like that is the real focus, for me at least. Everything seems to be interconnected in berserk anyway, spiritually, plot-wise, etc. What are these demons but offspring of the minds of (wo)men? What is the nature of this incursion of demons into the so-called "real world" and what purpose does it serve? And what does any of this have to do with Serpico, his challenge with Guts, or any of the others for that matter?

No really, I'd really like to know, which is why I look forward to every chapter. :-p

Wandering_Mystic wrote:Come on peoples, Wyald, remember Wyald! How much more badass can you get to take on a demon like that by yourself, no brand, no super sword, no cannon, no magic aura, no gay elves? This was before the eclipse too, so Guts had no excuse of being "more than human" or some other bullshit like that. He didn't even have rage then, just his old fighting instinct and his desire to protect Caska. And his massively obscene strength, which he earned on his own. I think too many people are entirely too happy at seeing a mindless, enraged Guts emerge and make a bloody mess of everything. Rage is not Guts' key to his strength. He got strong on his own, with a bit of help from some instinct to survive that he was struggling to understand his whole life.

Don't get me wrong though. The manga is called berserk for a reason, and it is integral to the plot and the story that is being told. But it seems too easy to confuse that with the origins of Guts' strength, and I think misunderstanding that would make one miss out on a lot that berserk has to offer. I tire of these talks of "human" vs "more-than-human". It doesn't feel like that is the real focus, for me at least. Everything seems to be interconnected in berserk anyway, spiritually, plot-wise, etc. What are these demons but offspring of the minds of (wo)men? What is the nature of this incursion of demons into the so-called "real world" and what purpose does it serve? And what does any of this have to do with Serpico, his challenge with Guts, or any of the others for that matter?

No really, I'd really like to know, which is why I look forward to every chapter. :-p

I'm cosignin' all of that ... 1st paragraph hit the nail on the head ...

Wandering_Mystic wrote:stuff i was hinting at but didnt have the patience or manga to look up

ya you sorta dug up what i was referring to. Gut's own will to strive. If it wasnt for the demons though, i would see guts as sort of a mortal zodd. I believe guts thrives off of the constant threat to his life, hence why he constantly puts himself into that position...starts to think this discussion might need to be taken to the newbie thread so Femto doesnt get angry .

berserk!

Wandering_Mystic wrote:Come on peoples, Wyald, remember Wyald! How much more badass can you get to take on a demon like that by yourself, no brand, no super sword, no cannon, no magic aura, no gay elves?

Wyald was badass, no discussion there. However, from the looks of things he is going to be a pussycat compared to what Mirua has in store for Guts. I at least think that it is strongly suggested that Guts will have to become much more than just a human to overcome his future encounters. Besides, a mortal can only do so much against a god. Like the Skull knight says (V10c10p207), this world is like the moons shadow on the water. It is impossible to make the shadow of the moon disappear because as long as the moon is in the sky a shadow will appear on the water. Right now Guts is a fish swimming in the water, which I guess means that he can create ripples and disrupt the shadow of the moon, but alas he cannot yet make it disappear. For that he needs to be more than a mere fish.

Earlier Skull Knight said something similar about challenging the Hawk would be like people in a tale trying to destroy those who bind them. To do that they would have to reside outside the tale (v28c237p28). I think that means that humans cannot challenge the godhand because humans are bound by fate and Godhand direct fate. Guts is now a notch or two above humans with his brand and Berserker amour but he still has quite a while to go. What the Skull Knight is now hints at what Guts might have to become to fulfill his vengeance. But we still don't know what the Skull Knight is so.... Besides it took SK, what, a couple of hundred years to become what he is? Let's hope Guts finds a shortcut or not even our grandchildren will have any hopes of seeing the outcome of this masterpiece Manga.

Wither he stays a human or not is the question that the manga has been all about since the eclipse, really. Skull Knight himself asks that question in v16c08 and again later. So we'll just have to wait and see.

dos.azn wrote:berserk!

make fuck...

What chapter is Wyald in, i cant recalled that name.

he is the first apostle that guts fights. it was the chapter that they had just rescued griffith and were fleeing from this band of savage baddies the king sent after them.

MrFelony wrote:he is the first apostle that guts fights.

*coughzoddcough*