Berserk Chapter: 279

[Istvan]

Does that mean that you can bind to your will ANY creature of darkness?
How about seizing control of the Dark Horse creature, and telling it to issue english-Berserk more frequently?
Just a suggestion, to focus your powers from resisting B-madness to something else

Hey Istvan, have you ever played D&D? Specifically, Ravenloft setting. This conversation really reminds me of that...

Hmm... an interesting idea, but the problem is that I think one of the other Lords has already done so. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that he created Dark Horse, in order to accomplish two things. First, spread the glory of Berserk, and thus help strengthen the darkness in humanity, and second, to ensure that the manga would be released fairly slowly in English, thus helping to spread agony and pain to large portions of humanity. From what I've heard, she's actually quite pleased with the result. To try to take over her creature would be a direct challenge to her. That could only end in the complete destruction of one of us, and I'm not actually sure who would win. Further, she's crucial to one of my other plans, so I don't even want to destroy her at this time. So in conclusion, sorry Aeriel but it looks like you'll have to keep suffering with the current speed of Dark Horse.

I really like D&D, but I've never actually played Ravenloft. I've heard a lot about it, and it sounds like a lot of fun, but I haven't found an opportunity to play that version yet. I'm looking forward to when I finally do, though.

[Aeriel]

Hmm... an interesting idea, but the problem is that I think one of the other Lords has already done so. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that he created Dark Horse, in order to accomplish two things. First, spread the glory of Berserk, and thus help strengthen the darkness in humanity, and second, to ensure that the manga would be released fairly slowly in English, thus helping to spread agony and pain to large portions of humanity. From what I've heard, she's actually quite pleased with the result. To try to take over her creature would be a direct challenge to her. That could only end in the complete destruction of one of us, and I'm not actually sure who would win. Further, she's crucial to one of my other plans, so I don't even want to destroy her at this time. So in conclusion, sorry Aeriel but it looks like you'll have to keep suffering with the current speed of Dark Horse.

You are leaving us to her mercy?! You are no better than she is, you vile creature of utter and complete darkness! We should sentence you to eternal servitude in heaven (worse then rule in hell, right?)!
Oh, btw, if you do plan to use her for your own schemes, beware of the mistake every hero/villain makes when dealing with his female counterpart: falling for his enemy. If you do that, you might find yourself binded to a chair and looking at the wrong end of her gun/sword/rod of power/staff of might.

I really like D&D, but I've never actually played Ravenloft. I've heard a lot about it, and it sounds like a lot of fun, but I haven't found an opportunity to play that version yet. I'm looking forward to when I finally do, though.

We just scratched it, played it as a part of an adventure, rather then making it a setting for the whole campaign. But those few sessions were really great All those Dark Gifts and becoming Dark Lords and everything

[MrFelony]

I'd vote to lock this thread but i really think Istvan would go insane if it did get locked...

[Aeriel]

Not just him...

And besides, do you have anything better to do on this forum in this moment? If you do, please share with me, cause I'm going nuts from waiting.

[Istvan]

You are leaving us to her mercy?! You are no better than she is, you vile creature of utter and complete darkness! We should sentence you to eternal servitude in heaven (worse then rule in hell, right?)!
Oh, btw, if you do plan to use her for your own schemes, beware of the mistake every hero/villain makes when dealing with his female counterpart: falling for his enemy. If you do that, you might find yourself binded to a chair and looking at the wrong end of her gun/sword/rod of power/staff of might.

Of course I'm leaving you to her mercy. Do you honestly think I care about the suffering of such as you? For that I should risk my own existence? Don't be absurd. Now, if she didn't arrange for copies of Dark Horses' work to reach us much faster then they do you lot, you might have a point. But since I get my fix it's all good. And certainly your feeble threats are of no consequence.

I wouldn't really call her an enemy (or a friend for that matter) so much as... let's say an associate. Sometimes we work together, sometimes against each other, but it's not usually personal, just business. Someday we might become enemies, that's always possible in this realm, but we aren't right now. As for love, don't be absurd. No Lord of the Outer Darkness is afflicted by such a weak and pathetic emotion as love, or compassion, are mercy, or any other such contemptible mortal frailty. Anyone possessing such a trait would never be able to master the Darkness, it would consume them utterly.

I'd vote to lock this thread but i really think Istvan would go insane if it did get locked...

Why? I have to agree with Aeriel, it's not as if we have something better to discuss, and personally I think the current discussion is more amusing (and certainly fits the nature of this forum and Berserk in general better) than a discussion of the relative merits of various forms of alcohol. When Miura makes another release, we can go back to our "normal" discussions. Until then, we might as well have fun, right?

[Aeriel]

Of course I'm leaving you to her mercy. Do you honestly think I care about the suffering of such as you? For that I should risk my own existence? Don't be absurd.

You are taking a dangerous way, Istvan. Don't forget that when you peer into the darkness, the darkness is looking right back at you!

As for love, don't be absurd. No Lord of the Outer Darkness is afflicted by such a weak and pathetic emotion as love, or compassion, are mercy, or any other such contemptible mortal frailty. Anyone possessing such a trait would never be able to master the Darkness, it would consume them utterly.

Well, I am not sure if I should tell you this (since you at last revealed your true nature), but those are almost word for word 'famous evil last words'...
But, as I still believe that you can be redeemed and made to thread the path of light (or at least neutrality), I thought I might as well warn you.

and personally I think the current discussion is more amusing (and certainly fits the nature of this forum and Berserk in general better) than a discussion of the relative merits of various forms of alcohol.

Absolutely agreed! I haven't had so much fun on any forum for a long long time.

[Istvan]

You are taking a dangerous way, Istvan. Don't forget that when you peer into the darkness, the darkness is looking right back at you!

I believe the full quotation you are looking for is "Stare into the abyss, and the abyss stares back. And then you become the abyss." While this is entirely true, as far as it goes, it's not very applicable in this case. After all, as a Lord of the Outer Darkness, I have already allowed the Darkness to enter me, and in fact made it a part of me. To a large extent, I am a physical embodiement of Darkness.

Well, I am not sure if I should tell you this (since you at last revealed your true nature), but those are almost word for word 'famous evil last words'...
But, as I still believe that you can be redeemed and made to thread the path of light (or at least neutrality), I thought I might as well warn you.

None of those villians of yours had ever dealt directly with pure, primordial, Darkness. They don't count. In fact, no human, coming as you do from a light drenched world, could truly understand what it is to be a being of Darkness. Remember, I'm not human. You can't use your meterstick to judge me, and if there was the slightest hint of the kind of weakness that those emotions represent in my being, the Darkness would have consumed me when I undertook the trial to become a Lord of the Outer Darkness.
When it comes to redeeming me, your free to try, but I'll warn you in advance that it's futile. There's nothing in me to be "redeamed". You'd have better odds trying to help Femto return to the path of light, or any other God's Hand, for that matter. At least they started out human, and thus possessing some trace of goodness. I never was, but am a creature of pure, undiluted Darkness, who was able to make that Darkness a part of me. To one such as I, your "redemption" is nothing but folly. After all, the light shall eventually die, but the Darkness is eternal, and in the end it is what shall be triumphant.

[Sandman]

You are taking a dangerous way, Istvan. Don't forget that when you peer into the darkness, the darkness is looking right back at you!

I believe the full quotation you are looking for is "Stare into the abyss, and the abyss stares back. And then you become the abyss." While this is entirely true, as far as it goes, it's not very applicable in this case. After all, as a Lord of the Outer Darkness, I have already allowed the Darkness to enter me, and in fact made it a part of me. To a large extent, I am a physical embodiement of Darkness.

Well, I am not sure if I should tell you this (since you at last revealed your true nature), but those are almost word for word 'famous evil last words'...
But, as I still believe that you can be redeemed and made to thread the path of light (or at least neutrality), I thought I might as well warn you.

None of those villians of yours had ever dealt directly with pure, primordial, Darkness. They don't count. In fact, no human, coming as you do from a light drenched world, could truly understand what it is to be a being of Darkness. Remember, I'm not human. You can't use your meterstick to judge me, and if there was the slightest hint of the kind of weakness that those emotions represent in my being, the Darkness would have consumed me when I undertook the trial to become a Lord of the Outer Darkness.
When it comes to redeeming me, your free to try, but I'll warn you in advance that it's futile. There's nothing in me to be "redeamed". You'd have better odds trying to help Femto return to the path of light, or any other God's Hand, for that matter. At least they started out human, and thus possessing some trace of goodness. I never was, but am a creature of pure, undiluted Darkness, who was able to make that Darkness a part of me. To one such as I, your "redemption" is nothing but folly. After all, the light shall eventually die, but the Darkness is eternal, and in the end it is what shall be triumphant.

Aeriel was more right with the quote from berserk, but just to be technical it is "Dont forget that when you peer into the darkness, the darkness is looking right back at you" Berserkv26c220p082


And shut up you are human dont try to say that stupid shit, I couldnt even get through your post without my eyes rolling back in my head and praying for your demise

[Istvan]

Aeriel was more right with the quote from berserk, but just to be technical it is "Dont forget that when you peer into the darkness, the darkness is looking right back at you" Berserkv26c220p082

Ah, sorry, I hadn't realized it was a Berserk reference. The quotation I mentioned is a very old saying that far predates Berserk, and I had thought Aeriel was referencing that. My bad.

And shut up you are human

Prove it

dont try to say that stupid shit, I couldnt even get through your post without my eyes rolling back in my head and praying for your demise

There's a concept you should learn about, it's called "humor". Even if you personally don't find something amusing, you should recognize when others do, and not get quite so frustrated about it.

[TheDrizzit]

Be-Ru-Se-Ku?

[Artezul]

None of those villians of yours had ever dealt directly with pure, primordial, Darkness. They don't count. In fact, no human, coming as you do from a light drenched world, could truly understand what it is to be a being of Darkness. Remember, I'm not human. You can't use your meterstick to judge me, and if there was the slightest hint of the kind of weakness that those emotions represent in my being, the Darkness would have consumed me when I undertook the trial to become a Lord of the Outer Darkness.
When it comes to redeeming me, your free to try, but I'll warn you in advance that it's futile. There's nothing in me to be "redeamed". You'd have better odds trying to help Femto return to the path of light, or any other God's Hand, for that matter. At least they started out human, and thus possessing some trace of goodness. I never was, but am a creature of pure, undiluted Darkness, who was able to make that Darkness a part of me. To one such as I, your "redemption" is nothing but folly. After all, the light shall eventually die, but the Darkness is eternal, and in the end it is what shall be triumphant.

A bit over the top, but it made me smile.

[Skullkracker]

Cool! you finally showed up!

[Khelegond]

I think that quote is a ... missquotation (is that even a word?) of Neizsche...

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.".

That's pretty apropriate for Berserk, I might add...

[inkthinker]

Last I heard, Dark Horse will be releasing bimonthly starting in 2007.

Of course, even at that rate it will take them something like 3 years just to reach where we are now.

[Aeriel]

To a large extent, I am a physical embodiement of Darkness.

Ahhh... The arrogance that kills! But beware: the gift that you received
is a Damocle's Sword!

None of those villians of yours had ever dealt directly with pure, primordial, Darkness. They don't count. In fact, no human, coming as you do from a light drenched world, could truly understand what it is to be a being of Darkness. Remember, I'm not human. You can't use your meterstick to judge me, and if there was the slightest hint of the kind of weakness that those emotions represent in my being, the Darkness would have consumed me when I undertook the trial to become a Lord of the Outer Darkness.

It is true that we might not understand what being a Dark Lord might feel, but we do understand the consequences of it. And while you are not human, you once were a mortal as there are no born immortal beings in this universe. But where you failure lies is your notion that love and sympathy are weaknesses. One can derive power from such emotions as well as from Darkness. And as well as powers granted by Darkness, our might also has limitations.

When it comes to redeeming me, your free to try, but I'll warn you in advance that it's futile. There's nothing in me to be "redeamed". You'd have better odds trying to help Femto return to the path of light, or any other God's Hand, for that matter. At least they started out human, and thus possessing some trace of goodness. I never was, but am a creature of pure, undiluted Darkness, who was able to make that Darkness a part of me. To one such as I, your "redemption" is nothing but folly.

Ignorance speaks from you, corruption of the soul. But every corruption can be unmade and healed, oh Dark One.

but just to be technical it is "Dont forget that when you peer into the darkness, the darkness is looking right back at you" Berserkv26c220p082

I actually literally transcribed the words from that chapter, although I got that volume from the Hawks, so I guess the translations varies from time to time...

[Sandman]

We said the same thing, I just used quote marks and reference for Isvan's info... and stop egging him on please the madness must stop please... you guys are probably haveing fun so nevermind me I just dont get it.

[Albator]

Yeah we are all nice here in Mindwerks, we tolerate shit like that.

[Starnum]

Hm, silly Aeriel. I understand your plight, but you really shouldn't worry about redeeming dark lords. It's like trying to reason with a zombie. They don't care, so it's pointless. You simply purify them if they get in your way. *shrugs*

Unless it's someone close to you, like say how Griffith once was to Gatts. Then it may be worth it to try to save their life, if you can.

[Istvan]

Ahhh... The arrogance that kills! But beware: the gift that you received
is a Damocle's Sword!

And your point? By and large, all power is. It is still better to be powerful then powerless.

It is true that we might not understand what being a Dark Lord might feel, but we do understand the consequences of it. And while you are not human, you once were a mortal as there are no born immortal beings in this universe. But where you failure lies is your notion that love and sympathy are weaknesses. One can derive power from such emotions as well as from Darkness. And as well as powers granted by Darkness, our might also has limitations.

I'll agree that I was once (and at least technically still am, though much less so) mortal. Where your failure lies is in the assumption that "mortal" and terms such as "good" or "light" must go together. I may be mortal, but I was never good, nor will I ever be.

Love and sympathy are weaknesses. True, one can gain power from such, but one can also gain power from Darkness. And without the corresponding weaknesses. If you love, then I can hurt you by striking at the one you love, or manipule you by threatening that one. I can lower your ability to think rationally by putting such a one in danger (or even killing them). You can be controlled and hurt in ways that we of the Darkness never can be, and so you are weak.

But every corruption can be unmade and healed, oh Dark One.

Perhaps, but I think my current state is a good thing, so why should I allow myself to be "healed"?

Unless it's someone close to you, like say how Griffith once was to Gatts. Then it may be worth it to try to save their life, if you can.

Maybe your seeing something I'm not, but I wouldn't have said that what Guts is trying to do is save Griffith's life...

[Jon Maitreya]

I think that quote is a ... missquotation (is that even a word?) of Neizsche...

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.".

That's pretty apropriate for Berserk, I might add...

I think misquotation is a word...

It probably WAS a Nietzsche quote though, just a Nietzsche quote translated into japanese and then back into English so it alters somewhat. Not really a misquote, just the exact wording lost in translation. That quote fits very well, with Berserk, especially the current arc.

It's like the Apostle's creed is basically Crowley's "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Dark Horse even translated it as "Do what thou wilt" - something I was personally very happy with them about.

About the releases. personally I don't mind if they take 3 years to get where we are now. Even at teh current rate of one vol every 3 months that's still TWICE the speed they are published in Japan. Bimonthly would be THRICE as fast. I'm fine with the current rate, bimonthly is cool too, but I don't want it to catch up super fast and then have to go down to like one volume a year because Miura draws at the speed of molasses running uphill.

Take Hellsing for example. Volume 8's been out for a while in Japan now, but still no english release date.

[t.A]

To a large extent, I am a physical embodiement of Darkness.

how messedup upstairs can one be..

[Eldo]

Please, I'm the El Diablo.

I pwn you all. Bwahaha.

Also, I'm planning to make some omake, a chapter-full, actually. No details will be released yet since I'm not too sure if I'm going ahead with it completely or not.

[Aeriel]

and stop egging him on please the madness must stop please... you guys are probably haveing fun so nevermind me I just dont get it.

As I already asked, do you have anything better to do at this moment? I am bored to tears, and this 'discussion' I have with Istvan is really enterteing for me, not to mention that it helps me practice my English and busies my creativity

Hm, silly Aeriel. I understand your plight, but you really shouldn't worry about redeeming dark lords. It's like trying to reason with a zombie. They don't care, so it's pointless. You simply purify them if they get in your way. *shrugs*

Starnum! Long time no see!
Of course, you are right, but we must try or we are not better then them. And besides, I feel that Istvan is not lost to us.

And your point? By and large, all power is. It is still better to be powerful then powerless.

True, but some prices are greater then the others.

I'll agree that I was once (and at least technically still am, though much less so) mortal. Where your failure lies is in the assumption that "mortal" and terms such as "good" or "light" must go together. I may be mortal, but I was never good, nor will I ever be.

I have never said that mortals are good. Mortals, and all beings, are in the begging, by default, neutral. What they become later is a product of their own decisions.
But in this world threatened to be covered in Darkness, being 'good' is the only choice for anyone who wants to survive. If forces of light become equal with forces of dark, the balance (though strenuous) will be achieved.

Love and sympathy are weaknesses. True, one can gain power from such, but one can also gain power from Darkness. And without the corresponding weaknesses. If you love, then I can hurt you by striking at the one you love, or manipule you by threatening that one. I can lower your ability to think rationally by putting such a one in danger (or even killing them). You can be controlled and hurt in ways that we of the Darkness never can be, and so you are weak.

It is strange to my mind how you precisely observe the weaknesses of our choices, but fail to grasp your own failures. Your arrogance and over-confidence are weaknesses greater that you can imagine. The fact that you might not have been defeated before will make your fall correspondingly harder. The turmoil of emotions inside you that strenghtned the Darkness within you gives you some of your powers, but also leads to
your downfall. The inability to control your emotions (for controlling them, restricting them, would mean limiting the reaches of your dark spirit and losing some of your might) makes you unstable and prone to mistakes. All of these combined gives you as many flaws as we have. You see, although you creatures twisted the darkness and tipped the scales of neutrality, the initial Balance survives, though on higher levels.

Perhaps, but I think my current state is a good thing, so why should I allow myself to be "healed"?

You will learn in time. You will learn as you learn what is the price of following Darkness. You will learn as the force which you considered to be yours to command slowly takes hold over you and deforms you from within.

Maybe your seeing something I'm not, but I wouldn't have said that what Guts is trying to do is save Griffith's life...

Starnum did not say that Gutts is trying to save Griffit's life, but that if you cared for some person as Gutts previously cared for Griffit, and if that person turned to evil, you may want to try to save that person's life.


EDIT:

Please, I'm the El Diablo.

I pwn you all. Bwahaha.

Beware Istvan, for here comes the True Lord of the Darkness!

Also, I'm planning to make some omake, a chapter-full, actually. No details will be released yet since I'm not too sure if I'm going ahead with it completely or not.

Looking forward to it!

[Brainpiercing]

I swear you guys are all getting weirder and weirder.

It was ok when Femto was just offering his man-love to everyone. But even without reading that page-long madness, I know this is worse.

[Skullkracker]