About Griffith...

[Arresty]

Well apparently it is infinate.

Its been a while, just had to do it.

[evilester_me]

I dont think there is a Femto that supresses Griffith cause when he came back as white falcon he went back to the same mission as he had when he was human, To become the ruler of Midland,now as their hero.

I agree with you about how Femto isn't holding Griffith back. I think Griffith was always a bit of a jerk for looking down on people but its how he had to think to reach his goal. But I think after he was tortured he lost his innocence. Both Guts and Charlotte comment on how he sometimes looked like an innocent boy but after that was killed he had nothing stopping him from being evil.

[Concealed_Rage]

Dreams don't make great men and evil men, but it is how that dream becomes reality does.

[MrFelony]

"That soul my master said, who suffers most is Judas Iscariot… of the other two who twist their heads down, the black mouths hold the shade of Brutus…. Cassius is the sinewy one on the other side"

Level 9 - Cocytus

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This is the deepest level of hell, where the fallen angel Satan himself resides. His wings flap eternally, producing chilling cold winds that freeze the thick ice found in Cocytus. The three faces of Satan, black, red, and yellow, can be seen with mouths gushing bloody foam and eyes forever weeping, as they chew on the three traitors, Judas, Brutus, and Cassius. This place is furthest removed from the source of all light and warmth. Sinners here are frozen deep in the ice, faces out, eyes and mouths frozen shut. Traitors against God, country, family, and benefactors lament their sins in this frigid pit of despair.

[Skullkracker]

When our really sour litereture teacher (who hated everyone in the class) came to this point, one of my friends commented that in this case she would end up in Satan's ass...

So much I want to say...
For Lel:
Griffith probably wouldn't have done what he did if he wasn't a wreck of a man. And no Eclipse would have happened...
It just came to my mind how cool it was when he told the king that he was a pervert...

For Libaax:
I've spent much time wondering what sort of relation there really is between Femto and the reborn Griffith. Maybe once they will meet in an Eclipse.

It's strange to think about this though: if Femto hadn't raped Caska and made Guts watch, there wouldn't have been enough time for Skull Knight (fav character) to save them. After looking at that part again, I am not even sure if Femto really wanted to stop them, or just accidentally used his power to crush a bunch of monsters...

And I never really liked Griffith becouse of his ...how did we put it?...gay looks! A man with the features of a chick is just freaky...I probably don't read enough manga.

For isse-pisse-päron-pung:
Damn I overlooked something again...

Out of thoughts...

[Wyrm]

My point is, IMO, Griffith isn't evil. He did anything to achieve his dream and wanted the fastest and most effecient way (after his torture, Godhand-hood was really the only way).

Griffith and Guts are not so different actually.... If I had to mention one thing that does put them apart it would be that Griffith has endless ambition. Guts's ambition (if it can be called such) has always been just to survive. Guts has been like that since childhood. He never had any dreams, goals or plans for the future, he always lived in the now trying to prolong his existence for just one moment longer.

Griffith is basically Guts with a dream and the ambition to realize it. But Griffiths dream is neither noble nor admirable in its nature. It is on the other hand selfish and rather childish. As a child while running around the poverty stricken streets with his friends Griffith used to gaze on the brilliant reflection of the castle casting its golden rays into the somber streets of his neighborhood, filling his heart with envy and desire for a way escape his wretched fate.

It was likely a dream that all children in the city had, to become a king and be freed from the toils of mediocrity. But while everyone else abandoned such lofty notions as they grew up and were faced with the grim reality of life, Griffith refused to grow out of it and instead tried to find a way to realize it.

His dream is to become king, simply that. There is nothing after that. As grand a dream as it is, it is quite a shortsighted and useless dream. He is not aiming to become king for any specific reasons or purposes. Becoming king is the goal itself, not Becoming king to end poverty or to bring an end to war, nor does he plan to (that we have heard of) become the king of a country so that he can use his powers to do something that he otherwise could not. He just wants to be a king, and I think that that is quite childish. You might say that Griffith never really grew up.

Other than their ambitions I don't see much difference between Griffith and Guts. Griffith sacrificed many for his ambitions and Guts has killed countless many who stood in his way, whether they were evil or not (Anyone remember the kid that Guts accidentally killed?).

Griffith sacrificed his friends for his goal and Guts simply up and left the best companions he had ever gained in his life for no good reason at all. Now, Guts did eventually return to his friends aid and when he left them he only did so because he thought that they were all well off and didn't need him anymore. But still, he did abandon his best friends without a valid reason and without even attempting to explain why or say a proper farewell. He up and left them for all intents and purposes never expecting to see them again.

Surely leaving behind friends like that in such a manner is only slightly different in nature from what Griffith did to his friends. He also let them go because they were a hindrance to his ambition. A true friend would stick to his or her friends no matter what, not abandon them like it means nothing for trivial reasons, nor sacrifice them at the altar of their personal ambitions. Neither Griffith nor Guts (at that time) understood the full meaning of true friendship.

I at least think that Mirua has from the beginning tried to imply that Griffith and Guts are not that different at all. Maybe they are like two side of the same coin, the Black and the White Hawk they are.

So it could be said that they were both evil because selfishness is at the core of all evil deeds and thoughts.

I never saw Guts as a hero of any sorts, if he ever did any good it was by accident because it served his purpose. Definitely, right now Griffith who is well in his way to bring an end to the Kushan reign of terror is a much greater hero in peoples eyes than Guts can ever hope to be. Specially if Guts is planning to kill that to be much celebrated hero. It will however be very interesting for me to see what Griffith is going to do once he has become king.

Think he is going to get bored of it and start doing evil things or is he going to be a good king. In which case would Guts be right in trying to kill him then?

Personally I think Griffith will try to take over the world after becoming king. As a mere human a single country might have been enough, but as a demi-god then nothing less than the entire world will be enough.

[Libaax]

Maybe Femot wanted to try out his powers.

And about Griffith and Femto,why come back to a human world when you are a god if he isnt still the same power seeking bastard he was as a human. I mean he can live like a god and do what he wants. But of everything he chooses to become the white falcon, the "hero" of Midland.

If you had read as many mangas as i then you would hate characthers looking like Griffith cause there is so many of them and so few manly looking charachter like Guts,Takamura etc. So when i saw Griffith for the first time,i thought "oh god dont make him the hero" and luckylie he wasn't

[Necromancer]

If you had read as many mangas as i then you would hate characthers looking like Griffith cause there is so many of them and so few manly looking charachter like Guts,Takamura etc. So when i saw Griffith for the first time,i thought "oh god dont make him the hero" and luckylie he wasn't

Yeah, all those babyface characters are overrated and they belong to yaoi genre.
Especially girls like those pretty looking characters.
I don't think in real history was a real hero with such a pretty face.

[MrFelony]

to quote a master

i actually skimmed a lot of that shit, and im just gonna say i disagree with half of it. though i still agree with the other half, i dont have the manga or will power to dispute what i disagree with.

oh and which is worse. being tortured for a year only to be rescued and find out that you'll be living the rest of your life as a complete cripple and all hope of realizing your dream gone. OR watching a friend you love betray you and a shitload of your mutual friends/loved ones is a slaughterfest and then watch said friend rape the shit outa your loved one while you are helpless.

[Starnum]

Griffith and Guts are not so different actually.... If I had to mention one thing that does put them apart it would be that Griffith has endless ambition. Guts's ambition (if it can be called such) has always been just to survive. Guts has been like that since childhood. He never had any dreams, goals or plans for the future, he always lived in the now trying to prolong his existence for just one moment longer.

Whoa, let's just hold on a second here pal. Since you feel the need to make such a big ass post, and tell us all about it, let me go ahead and set you straight on some of this shit. First all, did you stop reading the manga before Gatts even left the Hawks, or do you just have low reading comprehension? There's a clearly understandable scene, right after Gatts hears Griffith's little spill about what a friend is to him, where Gatts does some deep thinking. He realizes that he has just been fighting to live, and at that point he decides he wants purpose in his life. Gatts hasn't been without ambition, or a dream, in a long ass time pal. So let's not go telling everyone that he still only fights to survive. He has motives deeper than that for what he does now days, and if you don't know that, then you should calm it down, and stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

His dream is to become king, simply that. There is nothing after that. As grand a dream as it is, it is quite a shortsighted and useless dream.

Wow, did Griffith personally confide this in you? No, I think not. Just because he hasn't said what he wishes to do after becoming king, doesn't mean that's all there is to it. Actually, the way he spoke of it, it seemed he originally did have some things he wanted to change. Of course, I can't say that for sure. It's possible that he does just want to be king. However, until we really find out, we won't know. So let's not speak so definitely about it.

(Anyone remember the kid that Guts accidentally killed?).

Yeah, his name was Adonis.

Griffith sacrificed his friends for his goal and Guts simply up and left the best companions he had ever gained in his life for no good reason at all.

Um, excuse me. You need to re-read that section. Gatts had a damn good reason for leaving. He needed to live for himself, and find his own dream. He didn't want to just be Griffith's dog anymore. He killed Adonis for this man, just to hear him spew this crap about how he has no friends, feh. So don't go saying Gatts just up and abandoned everyone for no good reason, when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Surely leaving behind friends like that in such a manner is only slightly different in nature from what Griffith did to his friends.

There's a big ass difference you n00b. Gatts needed time to find himself. Griffith fucking sacrificed them! You just need to STFU with this big ass post of bullshit. If you don't know the difference between taking a journey to find yourself, and fucking killing people who are supposed to be your friends, then you need to get a reality check buddy. Gatts may have left them, but at least they could go on living. I'm not saying Gatts is a saint, but there's a big freakin difference.

Yes, Griffith and Gatts do have similarities, and Gatts never claimed to be a hero in the first place. I'm not even going to go into their "alignment", because it's all really subjective anyway. It just kind of ticked me off to hear some of the misinformation you were spouting *shrugs*. I'm out.

[Libaax]

Man it seems like Wyrm doesnt read the same berserk as the rest of us or he just doesnt like Guts so that he makes up things.

Hehe Guts leaving his friends without a reason that was funny..... you need to reread that.

[psi29a]

^_^

I like where this is going...

Your turn Wyrm, keep it objective.

[DarkenRahlX]

I'm sure Wyrm will be able to defend himself with the information he's gathered from skimming the manga.

[Libaax]

to quote a master

i actually skimmed a lot of that shit, and im just gonna say i disagree with half of it. though i still agree with the other half, i dont have the manga or will power to dispute what i disagree with.

oh and which is worse. being tortured for a year only to be rescued and find out that you'll be living the rest of your life as a complete cripple and all hope of realizing your dream gone. OR watching a friend you love betray you and a shitload of your mutual friends/loved ones is a slaughterfest and then watch said friend rape the shit outa your loved one while you are helpless.

I dont read most of his post cause of the leanght.....

[MrFelony]

heh i want to thank starnum for doing what i was too lazy to do. next time your gonna make a post that long, atleast make an outline . a lot of that looked like it was repeated info

[Starnum]

Heh, I do what I can. I just believe in the proper representation of accurate information, that's all. If you're going to give a lecture on the similarities of Gatts and Griffith, you've got to do it right.

[MrFelony]

i think i'll write a paper on Berserk heh. and instead of editing it myself, ill just post it on Mindwerks and let you guys rip up anything wrong in it

[Libaax]

I wonder what the teacher will say about it,he/she will probably think that you made it up yourself,hail your great mind

[Wyrm]

^_^

I like where this is going...

Your turn Wyrm, keep it objective.

Bah, never mind. I am too tired to use a whole day to dig up enough quotes to further elaborate my points. I would do it if I thought it would get me anywhere, but from the vibe I am getting I have feeling that all it will get me is being further flamed/ignored. Maybe some other day when I feel like it and my lvl (post count) has increased to a sufficient level.
For now lets just say that the things I wrote are my way of seeing Berserk, everyone interprets things differently you know.

The above was the sensible thing to say in this situation, but I am not afraid of users with high post counts. So Give me a couple of days to re-read a couple of volumes and I'll return with some quotes and more highly flammable writing materiel. But as I said before they are just my personal feeling, they don't need to be right according to your interpretations.

[Libaax]

Your level? This isnt a role game....


If you come up with good point supporting your argument it doesnt matter how we see berserk.

Can i ask you if what you think about the current Griffith. A hero of midland or a imposter ?

[Eldo]

Maybe some other day when I feel like it and my lvl (post count) has increased to a sufficient level.

Post count doesn't mean shit, I have to tell you.

[Starnum]

Seriously, post count doesn't mean shit. Besides, I'm not trying to intimidate anyone. I'm just stating the facts. None of my key points were subjective, so I really don't see how they can be disputed. Meh, whatever…

[MrFelony]

though they were made in an objective post. hard to delineate the objective from subjective.

[Sykes]

I don't really claim to be an expert in Berserk...However, I know enough to say that Starnum's view-points are pretty much irrefutable...considering that anyone who doesn't think that is an idiot

Although, there are similarities between Griffith and Gatts, it is obvious to anyone familiar with life in general, that Gatts had a reason for leaving the Hawks...

[psi29a]

wyrm: Post counts mean one thing, how many times someone has posted. Do not take it to mean that they are quality posts, or that they are OGs. Being flamed is typical in ALL things done in life, for example... look at the peer review that scientists have to go through to make sure their work is reproducible and accurate. Another example is how Newton was afraid to post anything to the Royal Academy because he was afraid of being ridiculed, he almost didn't submit his work on physics because he was to afraid of people finding flaws in his work. That is just the nature of the world, and sooner you and others get used to it... the better the world is because then we can all benefit. This isn't to say you are a coward or affraid, but we typically like people who can back-up their statements or can admit that perhaps something is wrong with their logic. It isn't about arguing, but through observation and logical deduction and rationality... we can hopefully take a stab at the truth.

Take your time, and come back when you are ready. Be concise, to the point, accurate (with volume/ch/page references), and always remember... your English (language of choice) teachers where right. Any piece of work has a beginning, middle, and summary.