. teh eclipse was guts' equivalent of being tortured and losing your dream/et cetera. adn skull saved me some time from arguing instinctive fear of darkness 
About Griffith...
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Necromancer
- Dirty Sennin
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That makes him selfish. It may even make him an ass.Ayanami wrote:You see, all Griffith thinks about is his god damn self and his god damn dream. That is what makes him an evil ass hole.Lel wrote:I think...
...that Griffith isn't evil. I don't think he's good either, he's beyond good and evil. He'd massacre thousands and rape his closest friends, but he'd also save many lives and spread hope everywhere. Why? It doesn't matter if he does good or bad, it only matters if it helps him accomplish his goal.
He won't hesitate to kill a man nor save his life, as long as it helps him achieve his dream.
But it doesn't make him evil.
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DarkenRahlX
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Buzkashi
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Otto von Bismark is what many people would call and ideal example of a "real politik". One who puts polotics and achieving power above most everything else. Griffith is what i like to call a "super polotik". He would do anything and everything to achieve ultimate power (which is his dream). I personally consider him and evil mother fucker. Just because i strongly disagree with "the ends justify the means" which griffith seems to believe strongly in.
A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.
-Sir Francis Bacon, Of Atheism <---Did I make this my sig? This shits gay as fuck.
-Sir Francis Bacon, Of Atheism <---Did I make this my sig? This shits gay as fuck.
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Skullkracker
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Well...ehhh...to me it strongly depends on ehat the means are.Buzkashi wrote:Just because i strongly disagree with "the ends justify the means" which griffith seems to believe strongly in.
But for Griffith to get his ass on a throne...HE WENT TOO FAR!!!
Should have just died in peace! (would have been some fucked up ending though)
Skullkracker wrote:Libaax wrote:Haha i geuss you think Griffith is good
In western culture i would geuss that black is the color of evil cause its the white man's world .This is starting to smell like reverse discrimination, but you just might be right. People are strange...history is even stranger...
Well I WOULD start panting about darkness being mysterious and frightening and instinctive fear and all that stuff, but I agree, white man not always nice...
Anyway I think I said before that I don't find Griffith good. The only thing admirable is the way he holds on to something he wants to achieve, and overcomes everything in his path...nearly everything.
The only thing he teaches us is never to give up...you may even kick ass after doing time for a year in innhumane torture.
That is like saying Hitlar was admirable for sticking with his dream of destroying the judes......
Whatever what Griffith did in the manga was evil from the moment he thought of killing the hawks, you have to love his gay looks or something to think that he is admirable.
The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of the martyr- The Quran
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Skullkracker
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NO NO NO NO! YOU'RE GETTING ME ALL WRONG!
Let's review this: Griffith's dream was not to eradicate people.
And no, I don't like Griffith, I am just saying that he has some admirable qualities.
Although we don't know anything about his past, it is sure that he somehow overcame the obstacles of coming from a poor family, having a ...how did you put it... gay look (probably trained a lot to be a good fighter).
So I wanted to say that he has strong will and a brilliant mind. That we cannot deny. And yes, he did many evil things that bastard.
And for goodness sake, get off me would ya?
I don't like Griffith either, becouse he's an asshole.
Bet you hate him becouse he is white, so there!
Wanna start a why we hate Griffith thread?
Now that we are discussing it, there are no black people in this manga (except for Guts being a black swordsman). Odd, isn't it?
Oh and a question that goes for everyone:
If he didn't do what he did at the Eclipse (hard to imagine, but try) would we still find him a bastard?
Let's review this: Griffith's dream was not to eradicate people.
And no, I don't like Griffith, I am just saying that he has some admirable qualities.
Although we don't know anything about his past, it is sure that he somehow overcame the obstacles of coming from a poor family, having a ...how did you put it... gay look (probably trained a lot to be a good fighter).
So I wanted to say that he has strong will and a brilliant mind. That we cannot deny. And yes, he did many evil things that bastard.
And for goodness sake, get off me would ya?
I don't like Griffith either, becouse he's an asshole.
Bet you hate him becouse he is white, so there!
Wanna start a why we hate Griffith thread?
Now that we are discussing it, there are no black people in this manga (except for Guts being a black swordsman). Odd, isn't it?
Oh and a question that goes for everyone:
If he didn't do what he did at the Eclipse (hard to imagine, but try) would we still find him a bastard?
Well i didn't hate Griffith from the start but its hard to admire him now after everything he has done.
Also its hard to understand that you don't like him by your post with all the admiring....
If he didn't kill all his friend in the eclipse i would still think he is a bastard cause he looks down on people even long before he thought of killing his friends.
But i wouldn't think of him as evil as he is now.
There is only thing i like about Griffith that is that he makes you feel so much even if its hate,cause most manga bad buys doesn't make you feel as Griffith does
Also its hard to understand that you don't like him by your post with all the admiring....
If he didn't kill all his friend in the eclipse i would still think he is a bastard cause he looks down on people even long before he thought of killing his friends.
But i wouldn't think of him as evil as he is now.
There is only thing i like about Griffith that is that he makes you feel so much even if its hate,cause most manga bad buys doesn't make you feel as Griffith does
The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of the martyr- The Quran
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Concealed_Rage
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Not to contradict you, but I don't think there was much ethnic diversity in the dark ages. The majority of the land was of those that came from that continent, since transportation of large groups of people wasn't cheap, easy, or quick in those days. When transportation becomes more advanced and the the land starts to develop races start to spread for what ever reason. That would be my opinion as to why there isn't a much ethnic diversity in berserk, the manga does have a sense of realism tied to the middle ages.Skullkracker wrote: Now that we are discussing it, there are no black people in this manga (except for Guts being a black swordsman). Odd, isn't it?
"He appeared right in front of me, and he wasn't a demon... but what looked like a human. As if he'd been yanked from before into the present unchanged. I gazed at him and for a second... I forgot to kill him."
- Guts from Berserk
- Guts from Berserk
I know that and who cares about that in Berserk cause its set in the dark ages in europe looking countries of course there aren't many races other than the white and the kushan who is arabic looking.
For the record i wasnt serious about the black,white thing in my earlier posts......
For the record i wasnt serious about the black,white thing in my earlier posts......
The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of the martyr- The Quran
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Necromancer
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isse-pisse-päron-pung
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In a way, I do admire Griffith.
He sticks to his dream and he does anything to achieve. Now that man, is dedication.
However, I do hate him. He is the antagonist of the series and rightfully so. In the end, he proved himself to be only for his dream. In fact, he doesn't even care about Guts or the Hawks. Betrayel, IMO, is one of the greatest sins. Because Griffith and Guts were so close, and now so far apart, Berserk is an awesome manga with a fitting main-protagonist.
I'm currently re-reading Berserk and I realize how very human Griffith was in the beggining, pre-Guts Griffith. After he slept with the old man (I forget his name) he has a very serious discussion with Caska as he is bathing, talking about how horrible he is for sacrificing his comrades, and asking if what he is doing is truly right. IMO it was one of the best and one of my personal favorite scenes.
But, point is, Griffith has done evil things. I wouldn't call Griffith evil though, because Guts has done nasty nasty things himself. How many hundreds of innocent lives has he killed? Maybe some soldier was just fighting for his life, trying to get money for his family, or in the wrong place at the wrong time?
The difference is that Griffith did it on a much larger scale, and his friends were the one he sacrificed.
However remember, Guts has killed hundreds (no doubt) of people, some of which I assume aren't so bad.
They've both done horrible things, honestly, and if I would rather not personally know either of them (as cool as it would be, though).
The main question is if 'Griffith' is the current Griffith, or if it's Femto. Is he still human, yet nearly surpressed by Femto? Or has he changed so much, that even if he weren't a Godhand he would be the same?
If it's the former, how different from it is Guts? Guts has the Beast inside of him, the Berserker armor. Who knows, maybe Guts will kill Casca?
Would it be Guts fault? The Beasts?
It's somewhat ironic what Griffith-like Guts is becoming/became/has become. Wasn't it to a point where he would do anything to kill him? To a point where he'd merely hack down whoever was in his way, friend or foe? Now, maybe he's changed.
Ok, I've rambled on long enough.
My point is, IMO, Griffith isn't evil. He did anything to achieve his dream and wanted the fastest and most effecient way (after his torture, Godhand-hood was really the only way).
Heck, if he had to help 1000 orphans to become King he would.
But anyones, on a final note, here's a question.
Do you think if Griffith wasn't disable, tortured, or if his plan hadn't failed, that he would accept becoming a Godhand and sacrifice the Band of Hawks? (As in, if he didn't screw the brains out of Charlotte and fucked himself).
He sticks to his dream and he does anything to achieve. Now that man, is dedication.
However, I do hate him. He is the antagonist of the series and rightfully so. In the end, he proved himself to be only for his dream. In fact, he doesn't even care about Guts or the Hawks. Betrayel, IMO, is one of the greatest sins. Because Griffith and Guts were so close, and now so far apart, Berserk is an awesome manga with a fitting main-protagonist.
I'm currently re-reading Berserk and I realize how very human Griffith was in the beggining, pre-Guts Griffith. After he slept with the old man (I forget his name) he has a very serious discussion with Caska as he is bathing, talking about how horrible he is for sacrificing his comrades, and asking if what he is doing is truly right. IMO it was one of the best and one of my personal favorite scenes.
But, point is, Griffith has done evil things. I wouldn't call Griffith evil though, because Guts has done nasty nasty things himself. How many hundreds of innocent lives has he killed? Maybe some soldier was just fighting for his life, trying to get money for his family, or in the wrong place at the wrong time?
The difference is that Griffith did it on a much larger scale, and his friends were the one he sacrificed.
However remember, Guts has killed hundreds (no doubt) of people, some of which I assume aren't so bad.
They've both done horrible things, honestly, and if I would rather not personally know either of them (as cool as it would be, though).
The main question is if 'Griffith' is the current Griffith, or if it's Femto. Is he still human, yet nearly surpressed by Femto? Or has he changed so much, that even if he weren't a Godhand he would be the same?
If it's the former, how different from it is Guts? Guts has the Beast inside of him, the Berserker armor. Who knows, maybe Guts will kill Casca?
Would it be Guts fault? The Beasts?
It's somewhat ironic what Griffith-like Guts is becoming/became/has become. Wasn't it to a point where he would do anything to kill him? To a point where he'd merely hack down whoever was in his way, friend or foe? Now, maybe he's changed.
Ok, I've rambled on long enough.
My point is, IMO, Griffith isn't evil. He did anything to achieve his dream and wanted the fastest and most effecient way (after his torture, Godhand-hood was really the only way).
Heck, if he had to help 1000 orphans to become King he would.
But anyones, on a final note, here's a question.
Do you think if Griffith wasn't disable, tortured, or if his plan hadn't failed, that he would accept becoming a Godhand and sacrifice the Band of Hawks? (As in, if he didn't screw the brains out of Charlotte and fucked himself).
The diffrence beteween them that makes one evil and one not evil is that Guts only kills when he is attacked,when he haves no choice.
Tell me one human Guts killed for fun?
The only ones Guts kills of his own choice is the demons cuase they are his enemies.
Also soldiers who attacks Guts for honor as most do are not innoccent.
Griffith kills to gain power ,the the power he have now as Femto. I dont think there is a Femto that supresses Griffith cause when he came back as white falcon he went back to the same mission as he had when he was human, To become the ruler of Midland,now as their hero.
Tell me one human Guts killed for fun?
The only ones Guts kills of his own choice is the demons cuase they are his enemies.
Also soldiers who attacks Guts for honor as most do are not innoccent.
Griffith kills to gain power ,the the power he have now as Femto. I dont think there is a Femto that supresses Griffith cause when he came back as white falcon he went back to the same mission as he had when he was human, To become the ruler of Midland,now as their hero.
The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than the blood of the martyr- The Quran
Hm... I'm just not so sure to call Griffith evil. I like him as a antogonist because he's beyond good or evil; he doesn't care, and I think, niether does Guts.
He just feels so human in Caska's flashback (when he sleeps with the old man).
Femto, I can say, is evil.
Griffith, I don't know. He's not evil, he's human.
He just feels so human in Caska's flashback (when he sleeps with the old man).
Femto, I can say, is evil.
Griffith, I don't know. He's not evil, he's human.
