Mechanics, Strats, Combos......
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DarkenRahlX
- Crusher of Dreams
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I know^^ I do plenty of air dashing In GG. I'm all over the screen in that game. The laws of SFIII don't apply to GG. I don't don't try to keep jumping and other things that leave me open in SFIII to a minimum. Like I won't shoot a projectile across the screen for no reason unless i'm trying to make you jump into something, which in SFIII doesn't work against someone who is proficient at parrying... and parrying a projectile that's been launched from full screen is child's play.
Aight, I forgot to put Remy in my tier list, I would say that he is probably above Akuma. But any who, jumping in 3rd Strike is pretty freaking sweet, because of parry. If you are expecting a shoryuken or standing fierce, you can easily get jump in medium kick for free with shotos like Ken. (Which then can lead to a combo of your choice.)
As for your tiers Femto, I am going to have to comment on them. I am not going to argue the top dogs because Genei Jin really is that good, but I still think Chun can fight him off if done correctly. As for the mids....
I think Hugo is too high. I mean, sure parry to Gigas is the beez kneez, but you only get one stock of that and the bar is long. He has great pokes but it can be hard as hell to not be reemed by a rush down character with the big H. Just me though.
I think Alex is a tad too low. His standing medium kick to EX Chop does too much damage. And his anti air parry to standing medium punch to EX Air Knee is sweet as well. He also has great pokes. (Crouching medium punch, and standing medium kick.)
Akuma is a tad high I think as well. His life handicap is just too much man. I mean, if you are playing a Makoto player who really knows what they are doing, the Makoto can kill you in one combo. Not good. He does own in the air though.
Q, he is bad. I play Q, I like to play Q, but most of his normals suck. Standing MK is great, but that is his only true good poke. I like Q because he dishes out the crazy damage, but landing a Capture and Deadly Blow combo is a bastard when you are playing some one decent in the game.
Oro is boring as hell, but he is not that bad. Dama is a nasty super with a lot of potential and he has some great pokes as well.
Elena, now maybe this is because I play her, but I think she is a blast to play if you know what you are doing. She has some nasty rush down, mean fast overheads, good tick set ups for thows, and some great punnishment combos. She has great normals on her side as well, just wish she had a good bread and butter that she could throw out with out get punnished.
Well, that is about all. I wonder what your main strat is with Yang Femto to hold him in such high regard. Do you rely on EX Mantis slash instead of super?? I play Yang with super II, and I usually try to land one of those when I have full bar. Is it better to just stick to EX Mantis slash?? I know it does mean damage.
EDIT - Oh n0ez!! I am a Buzkashi wannabe!!
Oh and I almost forgot. I will have to check my XBOX live account, I am not on much because in order to play I have to haul my XBOX down to my father's office. (I have wireless internet in my room, so I have to drag the box to where the hard wires are.)
As for your tiers Femto, I am going to have to comment on them. I am not going to argue the top dogs because Genei Jin really is that good, but I still think Chun can fight him off if done correctly. As for the mids....
I think Hugo is too high. I mean, sure parry to Gigas is the beez kneez, but you only get one stock of that and the bar is long. He has great pokes but it can be hard as hell to not be reemed by a rush down character with the big H. Just me though.
I think Alex is a tad too low. His standing medium kick to EX Chop does too much damage. And his anti air parry to standing medium punch to EX Air Knee is sweet as well. He also has great pokes. (Crouching medium punch, and standing medium kick.)
Akuma is a tad high I think as well. His life handicap is just too much man. I mean, if you are playing a Makoto player who really knows what they are doing, the Makoto can kill you in one combo. Not good. He does own in the air though.
Q, he is bad. I play Q, I like to play Q, but most of his normals suck. Standing MK is great, but that is his only true good poke. I like Q because he dishes out the crazy damage, but landing a Capture and Deadly Blow combo is a bastard when you are playing some one decent in the game.
Oro is boring as hell, but he is not that bad. Dama is a nasty super with a lot of potential and he has some great pokes as well.
Elena, now maybe this is because I play her, but I think she is a blast to play if you know what you are doing. She has some nasty rush down, mean fast overheads, good tick set ups for thows, and some great punnishment combos. She has great normals on her side as well, just wish she had a good bread and butter that she could throw out with out get punnished.
Well, that is about all. I wonder what your main strat is with Yang Femto to hold him in such high regard. Do you rely on EX Mantis slash instead of super?? I play Yang with super II, and I usually try to land one of those when I have full bar. Is it better to just stick to EX Mantis slash?? I know it does mean damage.
EDIT - Oh n0ez!! I am a Buzkashi wannabe!!
Oh and I almost forgot. I will have to check my XBOX live account, I am not on much because in order to play I have to haul my XBOX down to my father's office. (I have wireless internet in my room, so I have to drag the box to where the hard wires are.)
All it takes is practice, in match practice that is. Just try to parry more when you are actually playing and you will get better at it.halfnhalf wrote:well i have been playing some more SF3 and i have been getting use to the whole cancel thing. now i just need to learn how to parry like a pro.. for some reason i just cant parry to well.
Oh and standing Fierce Kick with Ryu is the better option for anti air IMO.
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DarkenRahlX
- Crusher of Dreams
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Shit. My Anti-air option is parry Shin Shoryuken -_-. Or just Shin Shoryuken on their way down if their air attack was executed prematurely. But Low Fierce is better if they are near you or over head I would think and Standing Roundhouse would do well to cover more distance.
Last edited by DarkenRahlX on Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
man i try that standing fierce kick... i cant judge the time on it so i just got hit everytime instead. well i think i got a bit better, but i still cant pull off the moves that i want to do though...DarkenRahlX wrote:Shit. My Anti-air option is parry Shin Shoryuken -_-. Or just Shin Shoryuken on their way down if their air attack was executed prematurely. But Low Fierce is good better if they are near you or over head I would think and Standing Roundhouse would do well to cover more distance.
I am not a fan of crouching fierce punch because you can get fucked up if parried. If Ken parries a crouching fierce punch from Ryu, he can go into a medium kick from air, and then because it is crouch stun, you have all the time in the world to land down medium kick to super, two light kicks to super or target combo to super. Plus, if timed correctly, standing fearce kick is harder to see coming and is harder to parry.
To each his own though, if it works, it works.
To each his own though, if it works, it works.
Oh man damn, this one guy was ryu and and jumped into him and he parried my attack and followed up with ryu's #2 super art. omg i got fucked...
OMG OMG OMG fire up your favorite torrent and watch the this video!!!
http://www.teamwhales.com/video
i thought tekken was the juggle king... but wtf.. videos like these always make me not want to play the game anymore...
OMG OMG OMG fire up your favorite torrent and watch the this video!!!
http://www.teamwhales.com/video
i thought tekken was the juggle king... but wtf.. videos like these always make me not want to play the game anymore...
The link should be up now, those guys were having problems with their tracker. If that still doesnt work go sign up at combo videos and get it from there.
http://www.combovideos.com/message.php? ... lkPTc2MQ==
http://www.combovideos.com/message.php? ... lkPTc2MQ==
Pretty tight video, but I would not get discouraged about the game because of it. Reason being most if not all of those are damn near impossible to land in a real match. Majority of those combos were stun combos, that is why they were able to exceed the juggle limit like that. A lot of those had the opponent in a crouching animation, and unless you are trying to parry a whole lot, you are not going to get hit while in crouch from such apparent attacks.
but the fact that they could do that is just a shock to me.Ayanami wrote:Pretty tight video, but I would not get discouraged about the game because of it. Reason being most if not all of those are damn near impossible to land in a real match. Majority of those combos were stun combos, that is why they were able to exceed the juggle limit like that. A lot of those had the opponent in a crouching animation, and unless you are trying to parry a whole lot, you are not going to get hit while in crouch from such apparent attacks.
some good news on my SF3 gaming, im able to parry pretty well in matches jump parries and what not. Also able to parry all of Ryu's first super art. May not be much right now, but its a step up from what i was before.
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Femto
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I'd like to add some Yang stuff to this thread. Please note that I'm not the best player in the world and this is merely how I play the character, it doesn't mean that it's the most effective way of using him.
- Far standing fierce: Awesome poke, abuse it like there's no tomorrow. It does great stun damage and is extremely safe at a reasonable distance too. Pair this with his mashing grab and you could stun certain characters quite easily if they are not careful.
-Super Arts: I personally prefer SAI, just because of the sheer damage it does. It's easy as hell to parry though, so try to predict when your opponent will attack you and throw the SA at them, it's invincibility frames will put you on top almost always. SAII is shit for damage, but it gives you tons of bar for those EX Mantis Slashes. SAIII is nowhere near Genei-Jin, just because you can't cancel it out of anything. Basically, choose SAI if you want some of the match to revolve around landing it, SAII if you want EX and SAIII if you are skilled enough and want to show off.
-Mantis Slashes (qcf+P x3): The bread and butter of Yang. You can cancel it out of most normals (crouching weak kick, crouching medium kick, standing medium punch) and it does good damage. It's relatively safe if you are quick enough to see whether the first one hits and are able to stop right there. You can also delay them for a couple of frames, which could confuse your opponent, though I've never been able to do that effectively. EX Mantis does tons of damage and can easily catch opponent off-guard due to it's speed. Abuse this move.
-Dive kick (df+K in air): Similar to Yun's, the dive kick has three distances it can cover depending on the strength of the button used, weak will get make you drop almost vertically, while fierce will let you travel a long distance. The move is parry-bait to someone that knows their game, so use it to confuse your opponent, you could be halfway across the screen, and you could jump straight up and quickly dive with weak kick and FP you opponent's ass as soon as you land. It's also useful in cross-ups with Seie-Enbu and it's MK version is cancellable from a MK is you are jumping forward.
- Far standing fierce: Awesome poke, abuse it like there's no tomorrow. It does great stun damage and is extremely safe at a reasonable distance too. Pair this with his mashing grab and you could stun certain characters quite easily if they are not careful.
-Super Arts: I personally prefer SAI, just because of the sheer damage it does. It's easy as hell to parry though, so try to predict when your opponent will attack you and throw the SA at them, it's invincibility frames will put you on top almost always. SAII is shit for damage, but it gives you tons of bar for those EX Mantis Slashes. SAIII is nowhere near Genei-Jin, just because you can't cancel it out of anything. Basically, choose SAI if you want some of the match to revolve around landing it, SAII if you want EX and SAIII if you are skilled enough and want to show off.
-Mantis Slashes (qcf+P x3): The bread and butter of Yang. You can cancel it out of most normals (crouching weak kick, crouching medium kick, standing medium punch) and it does good damage. It's relatively safe if you are quick enough to see whether the first one hits and are able to stop right there. You can also delay them for a couple of frames, which could confuse your opponent, though I've never been able to do that effectively. EX Mantis does tons of damage and can easily catch opponent off-guard due to it's speed. Abuse this move.
-Dive kick (df+K in air): Similar to Yun's, the dive kick has three distances it can cover depending on the strength of the button used, weak will get make you drop almost vertically, while fierce will let you travel a long distance. The move is parry-bait to someone that knows their game, so use it to confuse your opponent, you could be halfway across the screen, and you could jump straight up and quickly dive with weak kick and FP you opponent's ass as soon as you land. It's also useful in cross-ups with Seie-Enbu and it's MK version is cancellable from a MK is you are jumping forward.
A couple of questions Femto about your synopsis here.
First, you can only do weak punch mantis slashes off of a weak kick right??
Second is about the super choice. Now I know SAII does dick for damage, but you can combo it to almost anything. What kind of combos do you do with SAI?? Do you do something simple like crouching medium kick, or do you try and land his command grab?? SAI can connect off of his target combo standing medium punch, strong punch, back and strong punch. But I am pretty sure you do not get the full damage out of SAI when you do that.
Other than that, pretty good stuff Femto. I do not use standing fierce with Yang enough, and I really should, great poke. I still think SAII is better because I think his EX Mantis Slash is too good, but I am intrigued that you like SAI.
First, you can only do weak punch mantis slashes off of a weak kick right??
Second is about the super choice. Now I know SAII does dick for damage, but you can combo it to almost anything. What kind of combos do you do with SAI?? Do you do something simple like crouching medium kick, or do you try and land his command grab?? SAI can connect off of his target combo standing medium punch, strong punch, back and strong punch. But I am pretty sure you do not get the full damage out of SAI when you do that.
Other than that, pretty good stuff Femto. I do not use standing fierce with Yang enough, and I really should, great poke. I still think SAII is better because I think his EX Mantis Slash is too good, but I am intrigued that you like SAI.
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Femto
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I never do Mantis out of weak kicks actually (MK all the way baby!), but I have seen them done and I do believe it'll only combo if the slashes are done with weak punch.
And it's true, SAII can combo off a lot of shit, but the damage it does is so insignificant that you're better off using your bar for EX slashes. I don't really combo with SAI to tell the truth. It's pretty easy to combo it out of Yang's command grab, but the damage scaling fucks up the damage it does and SAI is a super that is based mostly on damage, so using it that way is kinda pointless. I'll do that when I want to land some free damage, but otherwise I'll just try to read when my opponent will attack and throw it out. If I see a fireball or a shoto sweep coming, I'll just throw it out and the super's invincibility frames will put me out on top. A shoto's fireball can go straight through the super up close.
And it's true, SAII can combo off a lot of shit, but the damage it does is so insignificant that you're better off using your bar for EX slashes. I don't really combo with SAI to tell the truth. It's pretty easy to combo it out of Yang's command grab, but the damage scaling fucks up the damage it does and SAI is a super that is based mostly on damage, so using it that way is kinda pointless. I'll do that when I want to land some free damage, but otherwise I'll just try to read when my opponent will attack and throw it out. If I see a fireball or a shoto sweep coming, I'll just throw it out and the super's invincibility frames will put me out on top. A shoto's fireball can go straight through the super up close.
Good stuff Femto. I guess SAI would also be great after a parry. 
As for the Mantis Slash, I completely agree with crouching medium kick, that is his bread and butter for sure. I will have to play some more Yang and see if I can figure any thing else out with him.
Thought I would post some stuff with Elena, because she is my character of course. Like Femto said, I am not the best player either, but here are some cool things I have found to make her work.
First off I will start with pokes I guess. Elena has a special normal called Round Arc that is back and fierce kick. This move owns so hard. It has great priority, puts Elena into airborne animation so she can not be thrown or swept, and does great damage. If you don't know what to do when you are getting a heavy offense, throw out a round arc. Another great poke she has is another special normal that is called Headstand Kick which is forward and medium punch. It seems slow, but it is faster than it seems. This move has great range and hits overhead as well.
I think this is an underrated poke in her arsenal.
Super Arts - Brave Dance or SAII. This definitely has the most going for Elena, and while SAIII can be interesting, this super is just more versatile. It does great damage, can be landed off of Elena's all important crouching medium punch from any distance and on crouching characters. (This fact makes it worlds better than SAI.) It has two stock so you can play around with EX spinning scythes as well, which is great for punishment situations.
All and all, with some great over heads, and crouching medium punch being as fast as it is, I think Elena should be played in a rush down fashion. The best thing about Elena is her great special normals like sliding. (I forgot to mention this in pokes, but it owns for foot games from afar for a knock down.) My only real beef with her is the reliance on crouching medium punch to land any supers or combos. Man it would sure be nice if she had something hit verifiable like a shoto.
As for the Mantis Slash, I completely agree with crouching medium kick, that is his bread and butter for sure. I will have to play some more Yang and see if I can figure any thing else out with him.Thought I would post some stuff with Elena, because she is my character of course. Like Femto said, I am not the best player either, but here are some cool things I have found to make her work.
First off I will start with pokes I guess. Elena has a special normal called Round Arc that is back and fierce kick. This move owns so hard. It has great priority, puts Elena into airborne animation so she can not be thrown or swept, and does great damage. If you don't know what to do when you are getting a heavy offense, throw out a round arc. Another great poke she has is another special normal that is called Headstand Kick which is forward and medium punch. It seems slow, but it is faster than it seems. This move has great range and hits overhead as well.
I think this is an underrated poke in her arsenal.Super Arts - Brave Dance or SAII. This definitely has the most going for Elena, and while SAIII can be interesting, this super is just more versatile. It does great damage, can be landed off of Elena's all important crouching medium punch from any distance and on crouching characters. (This fact makes it worlds better than SAI.) It has two stock so you can play around with EX spinning scythes as well, which is great for punishment situations.
All and all, with some great over heads, and crouching medium punch being as fast as it is, I think Elena should be played in a rush down fashion. The best thing about Elena is her great special normals like sliding. (I forgot to mention this in pokes, but it owns for foot games from afar for a knock down.) My only real beef with her is the reliance on crouching medium punch to land any supers or combos. Man it would sure be nice if she had something hit verifiable like a shoto.
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Tempest
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OK, Since everyone seems to be giving mini-strat guides, I'll throw my two cents in and talk on the guy I know probably the most with ... Yun.
Pokes:
Well ,if you didn't already know d/f+k in the air is the Beez-neez of air pokes, go home (kidding). It is just too damn good. Femto gave a talk about Yang's dive-kick, and most, if not all, of it applies with Yun. It has awesome positioning now matter what you oppenent does, block, parry , or eat it.
I don't know if Yang and Yun's Fierce Punch (Hard Punch in my terms, whatever) are the same, but HP is a pretty good poke. Comes out relatively fast and does decent damage. HK is OK, has better reach, but has some start up.
Target combos:
1.) MP, HP, b+HP: Does some really good damage, knocks back, so you can use it to get yourself some breathing room from a guy with a pressure game. Has some super cancels (more on this later) My personal fav.
2.) LP, LK, MP: Very quick and good damge for a combo starting out with a light. I have been (ab)using this combo a bit more lately since I've gotten the timing down. Most of the time you will want to follow this up with a qcf+LP. but it is super cancelable (Though some finger/wrist gymnastics are required)
Super Arts: Genei Jin is by far Yun's best super. Note that I said it is his best, not that the others are bad. For those of you who don't want to just be called a "tier-whore" by friends and loved ones, I will take you down the roads less traveled, as I have taken before. Occasionally in casual play I will use other supers, but I am tring to get better at Genei-Jin. Before, I was totally opposed to Genei-Jin and used SAI, You-Hou, mainly because of the work invloved in learning and perfecting combos with Genei-Jin. Anyway, all super arts are cancelable by Yun's command throw, hcb+K.
SAI: First let's get this out of the way, as an anti-air straight up, this super sucks. You opponent would have to jump in VERY deep, and even then I can't promise anything. After parrying your opponents jump in, it is good.
This super has really good damage, and can be followed up by a qcf+HP. I've heard of some people being able to get a Hard shoulder roll (f, d, d/f+ P) and another qcf+P, but I just stick to my guns and take qcf+HP.
This move is super cancelable off of both target combos. TC#1 is how I do it a lot of the time, but I would throw in TC#2 in everyonce in a while. As stated above, canceling with TC#2 is tough, but the reward is worth it.
SAII: Yun's "Mad Dog" super. I don't like this one as much as SAI personally, it's really only because it is NOT super cancelable with TC#1. Technically it is, but since the opponent will be in the air, you'll get two hits of it, they'll juggle, and you'll have wasted a super. (Like Ken's SAIII the hit at the end of his ground combo will decide if Yun will take flight and do his jumping kicks, if he hits or gets blocked he does continue the combo, if he whiffs: nothing) SAII however IS super cancelable with TC#2
SAIII: Oh Genei Jin. As stated by me and everyone else on this planet Earth, Genei Jin is Yun's best super, and arguably the best super in the game. No one can touch the bar to damage ratio that is possible with this super. And it isn't uncommon to be able to perform this super up to 3 or 4 times a match.
It's super cancelable with both TCs, but this will simply activate it. The best way to cancel and get a guarenteed combo is to cancel it off of a Medium shouder roll (f, d, d/f+ MP). This will put them into the air with it activated and then you can wreak havok.
How to get good at it? Watch some videos and take it to practice mode to make up your own variation. While there are no wrong ways to do the combos, assuming you have maximized the limited time you have, some ways are less "not wrong" than others. My personaly opinion, use as many hopping round kicks (f+MK) as possible and as many air pushes (qcb+p) as possible while in the corner.
Pokes:
Well ,if you didn't already know d/f+k in the air is the Beez-neez of air pokes, go home (kidding). It is just too damn good. Femto gave a talk about Yang's dive-kick, and most, if not all, of it applies with Yun. It has awesome positioning now matter what you oppenent does, block, parry , or eat it.
I don't know if Yang and Yun's Fierce Punch (Hard Punch in my terms, whatever) are the same, but HP is a pretty good poke. Comes out relatively fast and does decent damage. HK is OK, has better reach, but has some start up.
Target combos:
1.) MP, HP, b+HP: Does some really good damage, knocks back, so you can use it to get yourself some breathing room from a guy with a pressure game. Has some super cancels (more on this later) My personal fav.
2.) LP, LK, MP: Very quick and good damge for a combo starting out with a light. I have been (ab)using this combo a bit more lately since I've gotten the timing down. Most of the time you will want to follow this up with a qcf+LP. but it is super cancelable (Though some finger/wrist gymnastics are required)
Super Arts: Genei Jin is by far Yun's best super. Note that I said it is his best, not that the others are bad. For those of you who don't want to just be called a "tier-whore" by friends and loved ones, I will take you down the roads less traveled, as I have taken before. Occasionally in casual play I will use other supers, but I am tring to get better at Genei-Jin. Before, I was totally opposed to Genei-Jin and used SAI, You-Hou, mainly because of the work invloved in learning and perfecting combos with Genei-Jin. Anyway, all super arts are cancelable by Yun's command throw, hcb+K.
SAI: First let's get this out of the way, as an anti-air straight up, this super sucks. You opponent would have to jump in VERY deep, and even then I can't promise anything. After parrying your opponents jump in, it is good.
This super has really good damage, and can be followed up by a qcf+HP. I've heard of some people being able to get a Hard shoulder roll (f, d, d/f+ P) and another qcf+P, but I just stick to my guns and take qcf+HP.
This move is super cancelable off of both target combos. TC#1 is how I do it a lot of the time, but I would throw in TC#2 in everyonce in a while. As stated above, canceling with TC#2 is tough, but the reward is worth it.
SAII: Yun's "Mad Dog" super. I don't like this one as much as SAI personally, it's really only because it is NOT super cancelable with TC#1. Technically it is, but since the opponent will be in the air, you'll get two hits of it, they'll juggle, and you'll have wasted a super. (Like Ken's SAIII the hit at the end of his ground combo will decide if Yun will take flight and do his jumping kicks, if he hits or gets blocked he does continue the combo, if he whiffs: nothing) SAII however IS super cancelable with TC#2
SAIII: Oh Genei Jin. As stated by me and everyone else on this planet Earth, Genei Jin is Yun's best super, and arguably the best super in the game. No one can touch the bar to damage ratio that is possible with this super. And it isn't uncommon to be able to perform this super up to 3 or 4 times a match.
It's super cancelable with both TCs, but this will simply activate it. The best way to cancel and get a guarenteed combo is to cancel it off of a Medium shouder roll (f, d, d/f+ MP). This will put them into the air with it activated and then you can wreak havok.
How to get good at it? Watch some videos and take it to practice mode to make up your own variation. While there are no wrong ways to do the combos, assuming you have maximized the limited time you have, some ways are less "not wrong" than others.
My personaly opinion, use as many hopping round kicks (f+MK) as possible and as many air pushes (qcb+p) as possible while in the corner.
Aight Tempest, thought I would correct some things and add to your Yun info.
First off, you forgot to mention Yun's air target combo, light punch to forward fierce punch. Great for people who are parry happy.
Second thing, Yun's second target combo, LP, LK, MP can be followed by a light Tetsuzankou that can then be super canceled into any of his supers.
Third thing, after you land a You-Hou, you want to do a light Tetsuzankou and then a medium or fierce Zeshou Houho.
And as for Genai Jin, a medium or fierce strength Tetsuzankou is not the only way to combo in Genai Jin. One great and easy way to combo it in is his MP, HP, back HP target combo in the corner, activate Genai Jin off the cancel, and then juggle with a standing fierce punch. The other way is off his LP, LK, MP to light Tetsuzankou, super cancel to Genai Jin, then you can land crouching medium punch to standing fierce punch to fierce Tetsuzankou and then juggle away. LP, LK, MP to light Tetsuzankou is the prefered method, but it is hard as shit I assure you, and I don't play Yun enough to bother learning it.
First off, you forgot to mention Yun's air target combo, light punch to forward fierce punch. Great for people who are parry happy.
Second thing, Yun's second target combo, LP, LK, MP can be followed by a light Tetsuzankou that can then be super canceled into any of his supers.
Third thing, after you land a You-Hou, you want to do a light Tetsuzankou and then a medium or fierce Zeshou Houho.
And as for Genai Jin, a medium or fierce strength Tetsuzankou is not the only way to combo in Genai Jin. One great and easy way to combo it in is his MP, HP, back HP target combo in the corner, activate Genai Jin off the cancel, and then juggle with a standing fierce punch. The other way is off his LP, LK, MP to light Tetsuzankou, super cancel to Genai Jin, then you can land crouching medium punch to standing fierce punch to fierce Tetsuzankou and then juggle away. LP, LK, MP to light Tetsuzankou is the prefered method, but it is hard as shit I assure you, and I don't play Yun enough to bother learning it.
I hear ya Femto, I have a little info on Q, but I am no expert.Femto wrote:Let's not talk about Genei-Jin please, I'm completely tired of that bullshit.
Who has some decent Q or Necro strategies they'd like to share?
Pokes - Standing MK is by far his best poke. It is his only poke with decent range, decent damage, and most importantly, one of few pokes that he can't get amazingly fucked up on if opponent blocks. His other great poke is crouching MK, does not have the range and recovery, but it hits low.
His MP from both standing and crouching are very odd, they don't have much speed, and move Q forward. These moves also have bad recovery, I guess the only thing they are worth for is Kara Throw and movement.
Crouching down/forward Fierce Kick is a great one if not whored out. Good way to score a knock down for Q and has more range than you think in foot games. That is all I can think of now for pokes, I would stay completely away from his Fierce punch series, and his fierce kick can be interesting because of the amazing range, but the start up and recovery are just horrid.
Supers - I am a SAII man, it just does soooooooo much damage, and it has to be the meanest two piece in all of fighting game land. Not only this, but Q can land this bad SOB off of a Capture and Deadly Blow, which is huge. You can't do that with the other supers. The only bad thing about SAII is no room for EX, which can hurt, but I find it to be not that big of a deal.
Here are some easy combos that I do with Q....
Standing Close MK - Light Strength High Speed Barrage (Good stuff, can't be punished on this by most characters, does decent damage.)
Light Strength Capture and Deadly Blow - Juggle with Standing Fierce Kick (Good non EX way to score some decent damage with a quick C&DB grab)
Light Strength Capture and Deadly Blow - Juggle with a late Deadly Double Combination (SAII) - Juggle again with a Fierce Strength Dashing Head Attack. (Big damage, and you can land a taunt after it.)
Okies, my main thing with Q is landing big damage with Capture and Deadly Blow. It is definitely his best option for damage, the throw has amazing range, can't be teched because it is a command throw and best of all, you can get off an all important taunt off after any C&DB combo. An easy way to set up C&DB, is a jumping Fierce Punch, if the punch lands, and you throw the C&DB out, because of the long start up, it should catch the guy soon as he is recovering. Only other way is mix ups really, nothing else gives you enough stun to sneak it in there. Other than landing C&DB, you pretty much want to try and keep an opponent in the corner with Q, it makes the fight a lot easier for ya. Reason being in the corner, you can keep pushing the offensive with several moves that usually push your opponent back when landed.
I really enjoy playing Q, he is just one of the coolest characters in the game I think. But it can be quite the challenge to win with him.
Charge Partioning, do you know enough to elaborate on it?
I am a late Q player, but I haven't played in a while.
The one thing that really helps Q is his Kara Throw. It allows you to extend your throw range with Q to about 1/2 Q model longer. That gives Q a little more depth after some close ranged pokes.
I wasn't aware that C&DB could be linked after landing an Air FP. I'll try that.
His B + MP is his best Anti Air poke.
His Standing FP, if you hold forward or back it either extends or shortens the length in which Q lunges. This also makes a decent Anti Air, because of the odd windup. This is also true for his FK as it also stretches or shrinks the range of his kick. Wierd stuff.
Tidbit!: In a situation where you are able to connect a standing MK, be aware that a Medium P dash straight can and will connect for a bit more damage the then Weak P one.
His dash series (The straight ones, not the overhead or below belt) is a safe poke if blocked, but not parried (hardly anything is.) It also is a good means to escape corners when an opponent tries to jump on you. (Dashing out from under the opponent when he jumps.)
Edit: To emphasize, if the dash straight is blocked, Q is 100% safe from "Anything." Specials and SA's will not connect. And his move pushes the opponent too far back for Q to be thrown. Only way the opponent can hit you is with something you didn't block. (He hits low, when you block high.)
A serious note is that none of Q's moves are abusable. Repeating them will result in a eventual parry. Mix it up.
Understanding Q's fundamentals is one thing, but the mind games are what you rely on in the end. Eventually you will have to force mistakes, when the opponents know Q as well as you do.
I feel I've touched lightly on Q, I think their is more I could say, but I don't remember it yet.
A combo: MP + MK (Universal overhead) / SAII (Deadly Double)
Edit ------
While I wait patiently for my professor to find today's assignment, I felt like blabbing some more.
I agree that jumping shouldn't be attempted unless they are in a wake-up position (flat on their back.) This will at least remove the possibility of them countering with an anti-air. Not to say they still couldn't from the wake-up frames, but at least you know when it will be coming. Jump when confident.
An example of playing games with the mind was when I previously connected with Q's SAII (Deadly-double) after I was knocked down and he came up close. In the next round the same situation occured except this time he predictably atttempted a block against the expected SAII when I made the motion. This time however, I reversed the motion and did a C&DB instead.
Something else to practice on is reflex. In the event Q's dashing straight should connect, you are able if you are quick enough to connect with either Q's SAI or SAII. This requires training, attention, and some buffering for it to work. Otherwise you will waste a meter, and also allow your opponent to retaliate.
If you want to play Q seriously, I advise against using his taunts. It isn't something that you should rely on; it's a tool, not a crutch.
Side note: Q's SAIII has two versions. The long ranged grab (More like a lunge.) And the very short ranged throw. Try the short one, if you weren't aware. It's quite... alarming.
Advanced Combo: C&DB (Weak, Medium, Fierce. I forgot so sue me. ) / Weak Dashing 'Overhead' Punch / Weak Dashing 'Straight' (Yeah, you heard me. Do it again.) / SAII (Deadly Double.)
It works, but expect to get a few white hairs before you can successful attempt it. Also do it away from corners.
I am a late Q player, but I haven't played in a while.
The one thing that really helps Q is his Kara Throw. It allows you to extend your throw range with Q to about 1/2 Q model longer. That gives Q a little more depth after some close ranged pokes.
I wasn't aware that C&DB could be linked after landing an Air FP. I'll try that.
His B + MP is his best Anti Air poke.
His Standing FP, if you hold forward or back it either extends or shortens the length in which Q lunges. This also makes a decent Anti Air, because of the odd windup. This is also true for his FK as it also stretches or shrinks the range of his kick. Wierd stuff.
Tidbit!: In a situation where you are able to connect a standing MK, be aware that a Medium P dash straight can and will connect for a bit more damage the then Weak P one.
His dash series (The straight ones, not the overhead or below belt) is a safe poke if blocked, but not parried (hardly anything is.) It also is a good means to escape corners when an opponent tries to jump on you. (Dashing out from under the opponent when he jumps.)
Edit: To emphasize, if the dash straight is blocked, Q is 100% safe from "Anything." Specials and SA's will not connect. And his move pushes the opponent too far back for Q to be thrown. Only way the opponent can hit you is with something you didn't block. (He hits low, when you block high.)
A serious note is that none of Q's moves are abusable. Repeating them will result in a eventual parry. Mix it up.
Understanding Q's fundamentals is one thing, but the mind games are what you rely on in the end. Eventually you will have to force mistakes, when the opponents know Q as well as you do.
I feel I've touched lightly on Q, I think their is more I could say, but I don't remember it yet.
A combo: MP + MK (Universal overhead) / SAII (Deadly Double)
Edit ------
While I wait patiently for my professor to find today's assignment, I felt like blabbing some more.
I agree that jumping shouldn't be attempted unless they are in a wake-up position (flat on their back.) This will at least remove the possibility of them countering with an anti-air. Not to say they still couldn't from the wake-up frames, but at least you know when it will be coming. Jump when confident.
An example of playing games with the mind was when I previously connected with Q's SAII (Deadly-double) after I was knocked down and he came up close. In the next round the same situation occured except this time he predictably atttempted a block against the expected SAII when I made the motion. This time however, I reversed the motion and did a C&DB instead.
Something else to practice on is reflex. In the event Q's dashing straight should connect, you are able if you are quick enough to connect with either Q's SAI or SAII. This requires training, attention, and some buffering for it to work. Otherwise you will waste a meter, and also allow your opponent to retaliate.
If you want to play Q seriously, I advise against using his taunts. It isn't something that you should rely on; it's a tool, not a crutch.
Side note: Q's SAIII has two versions. The long ranged grab (More like a lunge.) And the very short ranged throw. Try the short one, if you weren't aware. It's quite... alarming.
Advanced Combo: C&DB (Weak, Medium, Fierce. I forgot so sue me. ) / Weak Dashing 'Overhead' Punch / Weak Dashing 'Straight' (Yeah, you heard me. Do it again.) / SAII (Deadly Double.)
It works, but expect to get a few white hairs before you can successful attempt it. Also do it away from corners.
"Don't you get it yet?! If she's beautiful, you'll die instantly!!" Chopper
For the most part, that was a great contribution to Q Artezul. But I am finding some flaws here and there.
First off, charge partitioning, I know of it, but not enough to REALLY elaborate on it. I don't play chargers like Remy or Q seriously enough to master it. But the idea is you can partition the charge into segments so you can do really nasty shit. Try this out for example....
Start a charge for dashing straight, jump toward your opponent and go back to charging, when you are deep enough in the jump land a Fierce Punch, then let go of the charge for a split second to land a standing close Medium Kick, after that you go back to the charge and finally release the charge to land a Medium power Dashing Straight, after that you ling a SAII, and follow up with another Fierce power Dashing Straight.
The Total damage for landing this madness is something like 110, a little more than half bar. I have never really tried to do this, so I am only shooting theory here, but this is supposedly how you pull this shit off. This is a working combo, so if you want to try, be my guest.
As for Q's Kara Throw, I don't think it gives him that much more reach, but is indeed a handy tool none the less.
Back and Medium Punch being his best anti air is arguable, I actually like crouching Fierce Kick and standing Fierce Kick if you think he is going to try and parry.
As for Fierce Punch, once again I am not too keen on this being an anti air just because it is easily parried and you can get fucked up on real easy if parried. It is also just a risky move in general because almost every character can duck right under it.
Your Tidbit.... is that a standing close MK??? Or is that a non close?? Because if it is the second, then holy shit, hell of a find.
About Dashing Straights being nonpunishable on block.... you forgot to mention that you have to have decent judgment on spacing for this to work. If you dashing straight real deep into someone's guard, I am pretty damn positive that you can dish out some thinng like two crouching light kicks to super for shotos or a very fast super like Chun Li's SAI. It is like sliding with Elena, if done at the right distance, you can not get punished for it, but if you use it too close and are too deep, you get fucked up. You may have assumed that most players would try to space properly, but let us assume that beginners are trying to learn off this stuff and assume nothing.
Lastly, about your combos....
The Universal Overhead to super can work, but once again there has to be some wacky spacing for it to work. If you do it too close, it will not combo. If you do it from the right distance though, your golden. Plus, do you know if this works on every one???
The SAII to dashing straight overhead to dashing straight. Are you sure that this works on EVERY character including people that are really hard to juggle like Alex or Yun?? A lot of weird juggles work on shotos and Chun that do not work on character like Yun, Yang, Alex, Mokoto, Remy, and Dudley. The worst offenders are small characters like Yun and Yang, and Alex is notorious for being hard to juggle.
Like I said, great stuff Artezul, if you can prove me wrong on any of these claims, awesome, then I will really start to incorporate this stuff into my Q game. It is great to see a dedicated Q player, hell it is to see some players that play some of the under used characters on this site.
This post has re-energized me to post some more stuff here in the game forum. I am going to do some studying on Third Strike now.
First off, charge partitioning, I know of it, but not enough to REALLY elaborate on it. I don't play chargers like Remy or Q seriously enough to master it. But the idea is you can partition the charge into segments so you can do really nasty shit. Try this out for example....
Start a charge for dashing straight, jump toward your opponent and go back to charging, when you are deep enough in the jump land a Fierce Punch, then let go of the charge for a split second to land a standing close Medium Kick, after that you go back to the charge and finally release the charge to land a Medium power Dashing Straight, after that you ling a SAII, and follow up with another Fierce power Dashing Straight.
The Total damage for landing this madness is something like 110, a little more than half bar. I have never really tried to do this, so I am only shooting theory here, but this is supposedly how you pull this shit off. This is a working combo, so if you want to try, be my guest.
As for Q's Kara Throw, I don't think it gives him that much more reach, but is indeed a handy tool none the less.
Back and Medium Punch being his best anti air is arguable, I actually like crouching Fierce Kick and standing Fierce Kick if you think he is going to try and parry.
As for Fierce Punch, once again I am not too keen on this being an anti air just because it is easily parried and you can get fucked up on real easy if parried. It is also just a risky move in general because almost every character can duck right under it.
Your Tidbit.... is that a standing close MK??? Or is that a non close?? Because if it is the second, then holy shit, hell of a find.
About Dashing Straights being nonpunishable on block.... you forgot to mention that you have to have decent judgment on spacing for this to work. If you dashing straight real deep into someone's guard, I am pretty damn positive that you can dish out some thinng like two crouching light kicks to super for shotos or a very fast super like Chun Li's SAI. It is like sliding with Elena, if done at the right distance, you can not get punished for it, but if you use it too close and are too deep, you get fucked up. You may have assumed that most players would try to space properly, but let us assume that beginners are trying to learn off this stuff and assume nothing.
Lastly, about your combos....
The Universal Overhead to super can work, but once again there has to be some wacky spacing for it to work. If you do it too close, it will not combo. If you do it from the right distance though, your golden. Plus, do you know if this works on every one???
The SAII to dashing straight overhead to dashing straight. Are you sure that this works on EVERY character including people that are really hard to juggle like Alex or Yun?? A lot of weird juggles work on shotos and Chun that do not work on character like Yun, Yang, Alex, Mokoto, Remy, and Dudley. The worst offenders are small characters like Yun and Yang, and Alex is notorious for being hard to juggle.
Like I said, great stuff Artezul, if you can prove me wrong on any of these claims, awesome, then I will really start to incorporate this stuff into my Q game. It is great to see a dedicated Q player, hell it is to see some players that play some of the under used characters on this site.
This post has re-energized me to post some more stuff here in the game forum. I am going to do some studying on Third Strike now.
The previous post was a lot of pent up opinions. Not a lot of people like to discuss 3rd Strike here (where I live.) And I'm not the type to discuss things in person.
Tidbit: Close MK. Sorry.
If it were distant, yeah that would be very nice.
The Back Medium Punch I feel is his best, because it is somewhat quick and on demand. Their is really no start up time to it, it's a simple press of a button. Though I've been punished hard for abusing it.
The Fierce punch is wierd. It 'is' a very risky gamble. If it connects on a block, the opponent will have some block stun and distance to deal with before he can reach you, but still very punishable. On another note, I haven't had someone duck under it, I only used it when they charged or they jumped. Risky move I agree, but I'm reckless.
Dashing straights being unpunishable on block, yeah I can't count the number of times I've been hit hard because I judged to long / short.
The Universal overhead and SAII seems to work on everyone, but it's a tricky link. I have not tested it out on every specific character, but I will say it has been blocked a few times. It's a toss up.
As for that advanced combo, honestly I've only seen someone perform that in a video (on Akuma.) As to whether or not it is workable on other characters I don't know. Each character has their own gravity (so to speak), and the combo itself is horrendous as it is to perform. It's a "God" combo, because to be able to perform it on anyone in my opinion is quite godly.. I've only managed to successful complete all the steps until the SAII, and then I would always mess up because I've only reached that stage twice. So it's a damn hard combo to do. Probably not worth doing at all, but it's food for thought if you want to show off.
Tidbit: Close MK. Sorry.
If it were distant, yeah that would be very nice.The Back Medium Punch I feel is his best, because it is somewhat quick and on demand. Their is really no start up time to it, it's a simple press of a button. Though I've been punished hard for abusing it.
The Fierce punch is wierd. It 'is' a very risky gamble. If it connects on a block, the opponent will have some block stun and distance to deal with before he can reach you, but still very punishable. On another note, I haven't had someone duck under it, I only used it when they charged or they jumped. Risky move I agree, but I'm reckless.
Dashing straights being unpunishable on block, yeah I can't count the number of times I've been hit hard because I judged to long / short.
The Universal overhead and SAII seems to work on everyone, but it's a tricky link. I have not tested it out on every specific character, but I will say it has been blocked a few times. It's a toss up.
As for that advanced combo, honestly I've only seen someone perform that in a video (on Akuma.) As to whether or not it is workable on other characters I don't know. Each character has their own gravity (so to speak), and the combo itself is horrendous as it is to perform. It's a "God" combo, because to be able to perform it on anyone in my opinion is quite godly.. I've only managed to successful complete all the steps until the SAII, and then I would always mess up because I've only reached that stage twice. So it's a damn hard combo to do. Probably not worth doing at all, but it's food for thought if you want to show off.
"Don't you get it yet?! If she's beautiful, you'll die instantly!!" Chopper