Evil Genius

It's not necessarily a failure. To me, it seems like SK and Guts have better chances in their fight against the God Hand now. But really it depends on the properties of the new world, so I hope we're shown some or explained some on that.

Is it just me, or do the apostles seem to be as completely scared shitless as the humans?

Starnum wrote:Yeah, they'll probably look the same as they usually do. It is pretty crazy to think that the God Hand can manifest themselves in the normal plane now, like Griffith. This could be very bad for the world, but at least now they'll be more accessible for SK and Gatts, to exact their revenge upon. I'm looking forward to seeing how all this develops, too bad we have to wait two months for the next chapter though. *sigh*

Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that they can only partially manifest, though. Sort of like Slann did in the troll cave, except that now they'd be able to do things like that anywhere and anytime, as long as they had something to manifest through. That would...kind of suck.

DrPepperPro wrote:It's not necessarily a failure. To me, it seems like SK and Guts have better chances in their fight against the God Hand now. But really it depends on the properties of the new world, so I hope we're shown some or explained some on that.

Possible, it just seems unlikely/odd that the God's Hand would do anything that would make them significantly more vulnerable, unless it also made them massively more powerful. We'll have to wait and see, of course, but having one of their own plans leave them vulnerable like that just seems...out of character.

I have not voiced this yet, since it may or may not be cannon, but i wonder if this effects the god (or "idea of evil)?

Istvan wrote:Possible, it just seems unlikely/odd that the God's Hand would do anything that would make them significantly more vulnerable, unless it also made them massively more powerful. We'll have to wait and see, of course, but having one of their own plans leave them vulnerable like that just seems...out of character.

I see your point, my only guess for if it does make them more accessible to Gatts and SK, would be that the rest of the God Hand had nothing to do with Griffith's decision to do this. Slann has already showed contempt for the way the others just float around in the ether and do nothing, and Griffith was already present in the physical world. So maybe this is his way of getting them more involved, or he just didn't really care whether it would make them more vulnerable or not, as it doesn't pertain to his goals and dream. Though this is still just a theory at this point, we'll have to wait and see just how much more accessible they are now. This could also be a way for Miura to get them more involved, while also making it easier for Gatts to achieve his goals. You never know with Miura though, because it almost seems too obvious, but we'll see.

Also, the text in the new chapter does seem to suggest that the creatures were created by the ideas and fantasies of the people, kind of like the Idea of Evil, but I still think that they originally manifested in the other world and are now crossing over.

Oh God, must stop thinking ... *hits self with baseball bat in head* ... ... no wonder the church wants to opress the people, thinking makes bad shit happen ... well, really, I do believe it's more got fear to do with it, and if people control their fear like Guts does, and their rage and all that, then they're the best that one can be and nothing should be fucked, right?

Istvan wrote: Possible, it just seems unlikely/odd that the God's Hand would do anything that would make them significantly more vulnerable, unless it also made them massively more powerful. We'll have to wait and see, of course, but having one of their own plans leave them vulnerable like that just seems...out of character.

I highly doubt that the god hand even really consider either Guts or SK to be worth more than a thought in terms of being a threat (clearly they are quite useful as pawns as Femto just showed), so I don't know if they even considered that they may become more vulnerable. They may just want the access to the rest of the world enough for its own sake. Then again, there may be other beings out there that would give the god hand pause.

Give the God Hand a break... they just want to get out and do their laundry...

Starnum wrote:Also, the text in the new chapter does seem to suggest that the creatures were created by the ideas and fantasies of the people, kind of like the Idea of Evil, but I still think that they originally manifested in the other world and are now crossing over.

My understanding was that all of these creatures were created by humans (from fairy tales, superstitions, thoughts about how the world works, etc.) in, as you say, much the same way that Idea was. Although much less powerful, of course. As for their existence in the astral world, my impression was that either they were created there (much as Idea was created in the Abyss) by human thoughts, or else they used to dwell in the regular world but as belief in them faded they did likewise, slowly vanishing from the matieral plane.

My biggest problem with the "Idea" is that it has no version of a creation story, not one that I've seen yet anyways.

So if magic was weakened due to lack of belief so that the only places creatures could exist were places where the barrier between worlds was thin and shit involving the eclipse. Does this now mean though that the Schierke will be stronger and the magic items that Serpico, Farneze and Isidro have will also be such aswell?

The Herald wrote:My biggest problem with the "Idea" is that it has no version of a creation story, not one that I've seen yet anyways.

It's not exactly what you said, but now that you bring the Idea of Evil up, I think it's worth mentioning. The Idea of Evil is canonical to the Berserk story, at least in semblance. In the chapter right before the one that was taken out, on the very last page, you can see a picture of it, so at least we can say that it exists.

Deathbringer wrote:So if magic was weakened due to lack of belief so that the only places creatures could exist were places where the barrier between worlds was thin and shit involving the eclipse. Does this now mean though that the Schierke will be stronger and the magic items that Serpico, Farneze and Isidro have will also be such aswell?

That would explain why Griffith had Flora killed. Probably in the new world a magic user could really pose a threat to his plans.

Draug wrote:

Deathbringer wrote:So if magic was weakened due to lack of belief so that the only places creatures could exist were places where the barrier between worlds was thin and shit involving the eclipse. Does this now mean though that the Schierke will be stronger and the magic items that Serpico, Farneze and Isidro have will also be such aswell?

That would explain why Griffith had Flora killed. Probably in the new world a magic user could really pose a threat to his plans.

If that is true than perhaps Guts can make some valuable allies at Elfhelm, assuming he ever gets there......

Then there is still the question of how much more powerful/mad/possessive will the berserk armor become in this new world.

The Herald wrote:My biggest problem with the "Idea" is that it has no version of a creation story, not one that I've seen yet anyways.

Well, if the Idea was created by humans, then logically it must be younger than the age of the universe, therefore there's no reason to suppose it would have any special insight into the origins of the universe.

hbi2k wrote:

The Herald wrote:My biggest problem with the "Idea" is that it has no version of a creation story, not one that I've seen yet anyways.

Well, if the Idea was created by humans, then logically it must be younger than the age of the universe, therefore there's no reason to suppose it would have any special insight into the origins of the universe.

And therefore it is not omnipotent and there is no reason why mortal man cannot overcome it.

Hm, I beg to differ. I think it may not be omniscient, but it probly is close to being omnipotent. How can man destroy something that is created from his misery which has and will always exist in the world?

It's interesting as someone mentioned that the armor could be more powerful. This could reduce guts to that uncontrollable state, but then again, if schierke's power increases, she'd still be able to control it...

Also, the fact that guts sword has been slowly changing from all the astral beast slaying will probably get amplified as well and will no doubt help in operation: godhand extermination

The Herald wrote:

hbi2k wrote:

The Herald wrote:My biggest problem with the "Idea" is that it has no version of a creation story, not one that I've seen yet anyways.

Well, if the Idea was created by humans, then logically it must be younger than the age of the universe, therefore there's no reason to suppose it would have any special insight into the origins of the universe.

And therefore it is not omnipotent and there is no reason why mortal man cannot overcome it.

I'm not sure this follows, since even if it isn't technically omnipotent it can be so powerful that from the perspective of humans it's functionally omnipotent. Heck, even if you "killed" Idea, I'm not sure how much good it would do, since as near as I can tell unless you somehow change human nature itself (unlikely to say the least) than humanities desires for "reasons" will eventually just give rise to Idea again.

The Herald wrote: And therefore it is not omnipotent and there is no reason why mortal man cannot overcome it.

for a mortel man to overcome it would be to change human nature across the world.

I guess they wouldn't be mortal men anymore, would they ... then they'd be something akin to gods, and the cycle continues. Maybe if there were a creator sort of God type thing in the Berserk world ... like before idea. That's what I'm interested in, the before idea, and humanity, and all that.

The Herald wrote:I guess they wouldn't be mortal men anymore, would they ... then they'd be something akin to gods, and the cycle continues. Maybe if there were a creator sort of God type thing in the Berserk world ... like before idea. That's what I'm interested in, the before idea, and humanity, and all that.

I think that's beyond the scope of this story though. Of course there are many characters the author introduces us to, but in the end, it's about one man's journey. Idea is hardly mentioned anyway. I think the author just mentioned it to give a background on the godhand's actions and that they are not acting of their own accord hence their name. honestly, it would be hilarious and unrealistic if guts ends up impaling idea at the end- probly the worst ending i could think of.

^Maybe that is what the Idea wants.
After all, it came to be through all the negativity of human emotions.
Maybe it is sick of its self and seeks an end.

raziel wrote:I think that's beyond the scope of this story

NOTHING IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF BERSERK! There's so much to Berserk and so much open within the story a space shuttle could come flying through the atmosphere and Miura could explain it to make it work.

raziel wrote: I think the author just mentioned it to give a background on the godhand's actions and that they are not acting of their own accord hence their name. honestly, it would be hilarious and unrealistic if guts ends up impaling idea at the end- probly the worst ending i could think of.

Even better would be if in their final confrontation Guts decided to put down his sword and gave Griffith a big hug & kiss. Thus using the power of "Love and Forgiveness" to flood the Idea with positive/happy thoughts and emotions.....resulting in The Idea losing its power.