Evil Genius

Well PJ also said he would direct the Halo movie, but haven't heard anything about it since that announcement. So Evangelion wouldn't be too far out for him.

Halo is back on board but being directed by another guy because Jackson was being a total douche in Hollywood. Anyways, Hollywood is under a writer's strike right now, so we won't be seeing any new stuff for a while. Which is sad because we really need to see a new fantasy or sci fi movie not made from a book or a game or something. Though, a Berserk movie would be awesome.

Arngrim wrote:

Starnum wrote:Asian, the word you're looking for is Asian. Oriental is an adjective only used in reference to food or inanimate objects.

Incorrect

swallow wrote:Not technically true. Asians in Britain refer to mainly Pakistanis and Indians, while Chinese and Japanese are referred to as Auriental/Oriental (whatever).

Correct
when in doubt, a wiki or dictionary is your friend.
Traditionally "Oriental" has been used by the West as a term to describe cultures, countries, peoples and goods from the Orient.
Some people consider it deragatory, because of its original intent (like Jap) etc but I was taught differently about the term so I do use it XP

It depends on who you talk to. I believe its more of a North American (Canada/US) thing, but I've been called out before for referring to East Asians as orientals. So in fact no one is incorrect......as far as the PC police are concerned.

BTW.....is it possible to get an understanding of the anime from watching the last 3 movies it came out with in themselves?

B/c the ending made no sense to me, and wasn't all that impressed with the story provided from these movies leading up to it in the first place to warrant investing 25+ episodes of my time and money to get into.

Maybe its just me, but I find it hard to get into animes that make their main character a "bitch".

The last 3 movies? As far as I know, there are only 2 official movies out, not counting the recuts. Death/Rebirth and End of Evangelion. Death/Rebirth is a two-parter, with the first part (Death) recounting the first 24 episodes of the show, and Rebirth is the last two episodes of the normal show, re-edited. End of Evangelion of course, is the alternative ending, which recounts episodes 25 and 26 from an "outta world" kinda view.

I have never seen Death/Rebirth, only the normal episodes plus End of Evangelion. But if Death is a retelling of the story moments of the show, then you may get the gist of what's going on, but probably not the whole picture.

And anyway, I always liked the normal ending, with episode 25 and 26, much better than End of Evangelion. The normal ending was a personal ending, very, very character-focused. End of Evangelion was just fanservice, with much fighting and special effects.

Aetherfukz wrote:The last 3 movies? As far as I know, there are only 2 official movies out, not counting the recuts. Death/Rebirth and End of Evangelion. Death/Rebirth is a two-parter, with the first part (Death) recounting the first 24 episodes of the show, and Rebirth is the last two episodes of the normal show, re-edited. End of Evangelion of course, is the alternative ending, which recounts episodes 25 and 26 from an "outta world" kinda view.

I have never seen Death/Rebirth, only the normal episodes plus End of Evangelion. But if Death is a retelling of the story moments of the show, then you may get the gist of what's going on, but probably not the whole picture.

And anyway, I always liked the normal ending, with episode 25 and 26, much better than End of Evangelion. The normal ending was a personal ending, very, very character-focused. End of Evangelion was just fanservice, with much fighting and special effects.

-I guess I counted the last two-part movie as two movies. Anyway would you or someone else be so kind as to explain to me the reworked ending? I got lost once things were taken to outer space.

My two cents.....

Let me start off by saying, I began watching Evangelion through episode 5. Then I got impatient and watched Death/Rebirth and the End of Evang. But based on what I saw, I just don't get what made this series such the classic like everyone has it as. Being very character driven, the fact that I couldn't stand the main character definitely was an issue for me. among others.

Well I can't really point a finger to what was so good about Evangelion. I've once read a quote from Hideaki Anno saying (paraphrased) "Evangelion is pretty much for depressed people, they will get something out of it. Non-depressed people probably won't change after viewing it."
And yeah I hated Shinji too, probably everyone did, he just just such a whine-ass (Go Go Kaworu!). But, at least I could understand him and his emotions most of the time.

Concerning the ending, I think it's pretty much canon that the normal anime ending is viewed "inside" of the Instrumentality, and End of Evangelion "outside" of it. [spoiler]In the movie it is clear that Shinji rejects Instrumentality (and therefore having every human being melted into one large pile of LCL, without individual feelings or personae), because he and Asuka reemerge from the sea of LCL at the end. Also Yui tells him while incide the LCL that everyone on the earth can come back to corporeal form as long as they have a will to do so.

In the series however it is unclear wheter Shinji rejects Instrumentality or not. The only thing which is made clear is that Shinji, after all that time, eventually comes to the conclusion that he is worthwhile and has a right to live, even when not piloting an Eva. Which, IMO, pretty much points to him rejecting Instrumentality too. But him embracing that he is a worthwhile human being is pretty much the message that Evangelion transmits: The whole series he is a psychic wreck, but in the end he understands that life as a person, while coming with individual pain, also comes with individual joy.[/spoiler]

Aetherfukz wrote:Well I can't really point a finger to what was so good about Evangelion. I've once read a quote from Hideaki Anno saying (paraphrased) "Evangelion is pretty much for depressed people, they will get something out of it. Non-depressed people probably won't change after viewing it."
And yeah I hated Shinji too, probably everyone did, he just just such a whine-ass (Go Go Kaworu!). But, at least I could understand him and his emotions most of the time.

Cue rant!

I first saw Evangelion nearly seven years ago, when I was 13, and it hit me hard. I fear a few of my emotional issues (which were fortunately few to begin with) can be traced back to how badly Evangelion fucked me up back in the day. (I wasn't depressed. I certainly didn't think so at the time. However, events in the past year or so have made me realize that I've never been truly happy for pretty much a decade. That might have had something to do with it.)

I hated Shinji. God, I hated Shinji so much and I hated Evangelion until someone much wiser than me said this; "you don't hate Shinji. You hate what you see of yourself in Shinji." Shinji isn't a protagonist in the sense that he's a wide-eyed Gordon Freeman-esque surrogate for the audience, nor is he a fully-realized character in his own right. It's under the pretense of being those things that he becomes a psychological tool for finding that chink in your armor and then blowing the whole thing open in a catharsis of insane proportions.

As for End of Evangelion,
[spoiler]I prefer to interpret events as everything coming to its inevitable and tragically logical conclusion. Shinji hates himself enough to reject the Anti-Terror-Field-less happy-go-lucky semi-reality of the Instrumentality project, but is also too much of a coward to return everything normal. He retreats back into the shell of his AT field (which is a brilliant invention as a psychosocial phrase), consciously or subconsciously incarnating Asuka as well, out of some twisted Oedipedal (is that even a word?) need for... a female... something. Shinji, through EVA 01 and the Instrumentality Project, is indeed the cruel angel alluded to in the opening. Worldwide genocide, ho![/spoiler]

Speaking of the opening, I'm thinking of simply labeling Shinji, as he is at the end of End of Evangelion, as the anti-Christ. There's the opening's cruel angel, and Satan (the twelve-winged thing that shows up in the first few seconds of the series opening), both of which both overtly and covertly refer to Shinji. However, Shinji is born of Man and very much a product of humanity - that's one of the many, many points made by the show - so seeing him as the anti-thesis of a mythological messiah is more fitting, IMHO. Anti-Christ it is.

LordMune wrote:

Aetherfukz wrote:Well I can't really point a finger to what was so good about Evangelion. I've once read a quote from Hideaki Anno saying (paraphrased) "Evangelion is pretty much for depressed people, they will get something out of it. Non-depressed people probably won't change after viewing it."
And yeah I hated Shinji too, probably everyone did, he just just such a whine-ass (Go Go Kaworu!). But, at least I could understand him and his emotions most of the time.

Cue rant!

I first saw Evangelion nearly seven years ago, when I was 13, and it hit me hard. I fear a few of my emotional issues (which were fortunately few to begin with) can be traced back to how badly Evangelion fucked me up back in the day. (I wasn't depressed. I certainly didn't think so at the time. However, events in the past year or so have made me realize that I've never been truly happy for pretty much a decade. That might have had something to do with it.)

I hated Shinji. God, I hated Shinji so much and I hated Evangelion until someone much wiser than me said this; "you don't hate Shinji. You hate what you see of yourself in Shinji." Shinji isn't a protagonist in the sense that he's a wide-eyed Gordon Freeman-esque surrogate for the audience, nor is he a fully-realized character in his own right. It's under the pretense of being those things that he becomes a psychological tool for finding that chink in your armor and then blowing the whole thing open in a catharsis of insane proportions.

As for End of Evangelion,
[spoiler]I prefer to interpret events as everything coming to its inevitable and tragically logical conclusion. Shinji hates himself enough to reject the Anti-Terror-Field-less happy-go-lucky semi-reality of the Instrumentality project, but is also too much of a coward to return everything normal. He retreats back into the shell of his AT field (which is a brilliant invention as a psychosocial phrase), consciously or subconsciously incarnating Asuka as well, out of some twisted Oedipedal (is that even a word?) need for... a female... something. Shinji, through EVA 01 and the Instrumentality Project, is indeed the cruel angel alluded to in the opening. Worldwide genocide, ho![/spoiler]

Speaking of the opening, I'm thinking of simply labeling Shinji, as he is at the end of End of Evangelion, as the anti-Christ. There's the opening's cruel angel, and Satan (the twelve-winged thing that shows up in the first few seconds of the series opening), both of which both overtly and covertly refer to Shinji. However, Shinji is born of Man and very much a product of humanity - that's one of the many, many points made by the show - so seeing him as the anti-thesis of a mythological messiah is more fitting, IMHO. Anti-Christ it is.

My goodness, you must be the smartest man alive....seriously!

Remind me never to get in a flame war with this guy.

In regards to Evangelion, maybe I need to go watch the entire series.

But yet again, why would I want to put myself through a potential existential cluster-fuck?

[spoiler]BTW....love the notion of Shinji being more of an allegory than true protagonist. That shit runs deep......[/spoiler]

Damn my head hurts!

The Prince wrote:In regards to Evangelion, maybe I need to go watch the entire series.

But yet again, why would I want to put myself through a potential existential cluster-fuck?

That's the other thing about Evangelion- it's incredibly multi-layered. There are people out there who have thought long and hard about Evangelion and yet are still distracted by the religious imagery which is, at best, a metaphor and at worst a complete red herring. The first half of the show is, to the casual viewer, essentially a kooky mecha animé with some odd dysfunctional relationships thrown in as a source for drama.

In the second half shit really starts hitting the fan on a psychological level, but on the surface (and even a few layers beneath), it's still just a really, really awesome show about big robots killing shit, with the mystery of what the Angels, NERV and SEELE really are as the driving force.

Taking this view will ultimately outrage the viewer when it comes to the last two episodes- they are not exactly good on any level, but the animation budget was tight and it was the only way to deal with the, as you so eloquently put it, existential cluster-fuck that had developed.

But that's the great thing about Evangelion. Everyone gets their own interpretions and conclusions from it. It not just a simpleminded "this is so and that is so" anime, but very speculative and open ended.

Aetherfukz wrote:But that's the great thing about Evangelion. Everyone gets their own interpretions and conclusions from it. It not just a simpleminded "this is so and that is so" anime, but very speculative and open ended.

Not saying this applies to Evangelion.

But IMO japanese anime seems to purposely leave open-ended, ambiguous endings to leave things up to the viewer to interpret. Maybe I'm in the minority, but there are times where I find this as a cheap device by the author to make their product appear deep and poetic, when I'm left to wonder if the author really had a clue themselves regarding what it was supposed to mean.

Well yeah, it can indeed be a cheap device to make everything seem deeper. Some anime may use it as such (although I can't think of any on the top of my head... )

But being up to interpretion isn't something bad IMHO. Being open-ended in a way that the series/movie doesn't really conclude with anything is another matter. I hate it when you are not a least bit satisfied with the overall outcome of something you watched like 20 hours. Berserk Anime for example - when you don't know the Manga the ending just fucks you up (pun intended ).
But Evangelion wasn't just "Oh we'll through some Kabbala in there, the Magi and something from the bible, mix it up and let people decide what it is". There's thought behind everything, but is is not so fixed like a hollywood Blockbuster. Take 300 for example: There isn't really anything you could try to interprete. Everything is just as you see it. I don't like that kind of "easy watching".

Evangelion isn't open-ended. It doesn't give you all the answers the first time you watch it because you are asking the wrong questions. The message at the end is pretty clear- nevertheless it has a tendency to polarize people to two extremes, but it is not IT WAS ALL A DREAM... OR WAS IT

It's really that good?..I remember I watched maybe 10 episodes or so when it was on Adult Swim. All I remember was some chick with a bunch of beer bottles, mecha(9/10 I'd rather watch a show like Pokemon than one that has giant robots..), and big weird ass monster things trying to destroy cities or something like that. I think I might actually try to watch this series to see the philosophical show everyone is talking about..Even if that means sitting through a mecha series .

Yeah the show is true philosophy at its core. All the mecha is just to get viewers watching

The trick with Evangeleon is that it was written to be controversial and to have no ending so people would over think it and therefore attempt to reproduce it until kingdom come all so that it would continue to make money.

The Herald wrote:The trick with Evangeleon is that it was written to be controversial and to have no ending so people would over think it and therefore attempt to reproduce it until kingdom come all so that it would continue to make money.

This post is dumb. You are dumb.

EDIT: You got one thing right though; the rights to Evangelion effectively means the right to print money in Japan. GAINAX NEEDS A BIGGER OFFICE MADE OUT OF SOLID GOLD, MAKE SOME EVA

my thoughts about the live action move>
Ok first off Eva (or any Anime to Live action for that matter) should never be made by an American production company IMO. We all seen what they did to the professional.. And I’m more than willing to guess that all the sharp letters they got is what put the project on ice in the first place.. I vaguely remember they originally were going to change masato's name which since then has been changed back. Also the fact that in their own interview they even said that before the project was even brought up had little knowledge of anime at all.. That’s like walking up to your 16 year old who’s never touched a car before and saying “here are the keys to my rig. Oh yea by the way it has a taker full of gasoline so be careful"

my thoughts about the new movies>
Frankly i like it.. This is what he should have done in the first place rather then coming out with that re-mastered edition. The entire series is broken up into 3 movies the first of which ends after Ramiel, the fifth angel the next one should start with Auska's arrival.

my thoughts about the series itself>
I’ve been a fan of this series since it came out. It seems however most people I’ve talked to either love it or really hate it.. I’ve had hours of discussions about what possible meanings there are on different things. A lot of do make sense even if it was or wasn't meant to be that way. I’ve even had long discussions with people who hate the series.. There has been very few animes out there that i can discuss at an intelligent level in this way.

So like it or hate it Eva did play a big role in helping get the word out about anime. And if the new movies are a way of getting the word out to a new generation then i wish them the best

Starnum wrote:Right. Besides, the American version sucks, because the voice-acting is atrocious. The bulk of the philosophy is at the end, and it's definitely worth checking out IMO. It's as if everything was just a build up towards the last two episodes if you ask me. That way you already have a good idea of what the characters are like and about, before they start going into depth about their problems and analyzing them and breaking them down.

I got the US Eva DVDs before they were out in Germany, but mine do still have the japanese voice track + subtitles
And yeah the english voice acting is terrible, but it is so for most shows. I actually prefer the german dubbing (if I have to choose for a dub) most of the time. They don't make it always sound so cocky.

Yeah I prefer japanese with subs too, but sometimes that is not an option. Like when watching with friends on a weekend who can't be bothered to hear the japanese and read everything. Also when you're not paying close attention (i.e. talking with the friends at the same time, or me lying on the couch half-asleep watching some anime) then the dub is useful too.