Berserk Chapter: 278

Post by **Lord Rae** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:01 am

well SK and also Guts wouldn't ask or accept Zodds help. no matter his noble quirks...

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:05 am

Istvan wrote:
I'd agree that one of Zodd's strengths is that he knows how to fight well, but I think it's inacurate to say that the only thing seperating the various Apostles strength is how well they can use their power. If you look at Grunbeld, for example, with his incredible armor and ability to breath fire, it almost wouldn't matter how he fought, since generally no weapon could touch him (hence the fact that he got taken out by magic). Even Guts with the Berserk armor and that huge sword was barely able to crack that armor. Compare that to the Apostles he took out in a few seconds in the same fight. We can see an even clearer example in the form of the Emperor, since all attacks that lack a huge astral component are useless against him, and he has an incredibly powerful attack. To say that he's no more powerful then the average Apostle just seems absurd to me. So while I'd agree that how the Apostle uses the power is important to how powerful they are, I think there is also clearly an inherent difference in some of their basic strength.

Hmmmm then maybe I should tweak my theory to say that they are stronger when they know what they are doing in a fight and just being masters of themselves. As in finding out all their powers and devising defensive/offensive strategies in accord to their physical shape or one of their "forms" (i.e. Ganishika). Sounds good to me! Thanks for the help! ^_^

Post by **Libaax** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:39 am

Zodd following the God Hand is easy, they gave him life and his powers, he is prolly loyal to that.

Also he knows if he doesnt obey they can prolly destroy him in a sec.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:20 am

Can they?

I'm not sure they could just interfere like that

Post by **MrFelony** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:52 pm

sigh, zodd didnt come follow griffith at first. he is much akin to guts' wandering warrior profile. griffith had to seek him out and claim him much like he did with guts.

Post by **Phoenix** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:01 pm

Maybe, but SK is also clearly stronger then Zodd, and Zodd's never been tempted to follow him. Either he's just naturally loyal to the God's Hand, and won't side with their foes, or he looks for more then just strength (strength still being very important, of course) in someone for them to be worthy of being his leader.

I don't know about *clearly* stronger, since they have been fighting for centuries, but you're right, he'd never follow SK. But in his defense, I don't think he'd let Griffith send 1000 apostles to kill his century-long rival.

Also we've seen that not all apostles side with the God Hand (this may have also been arranged by the God Hand, but still).

Generally, when Gatts defeats an apostle, it means they've been slain.

You think it'll be like this with Zodd?

Post by **Jon Maitreya** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:34 pm

Phoenix wrote:
Generally, when Gatts defeats an apostle, it means they've been slain.
You think it'll be like this with Zodd?

I think it's likely - Guts and Zodd will have their death-match, Guts will win, Zodd will die. Admittedly, I don't tihnk it'll happen until right near the end of the series, or at least the Millennium Falcon arc. That being said, Miura has practically free-rein over everything (he is constricted somewhat by previous fore-shadowing and events). I mean, who a year thought Guts would end uo taking on Ganishka while on Zodd's back? If anyoen had suggested it they'd have been laughed at

Post by **Khelegond** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm

Phoenix wrote:
Generally, when Gatts defeats an apostle, it means they've been slain.
You think it'll be like this with Zodd?

I won't say I'm sure, because Miura is quite unique in his twists. But I can safely say that "everything points to yes". Why wouldn't him? He's an apostle. And Gatts, by now, knows that everytime Zodd helped him (two times only, I think) was because of Griffith, not of him. Of course, I'm sure it will be a great dialog, but he'll die in the end. To the abyss forever - hehehehe.

I don't care how cool the new apostles (and Zodd) are, they're still apostles. They deserve to die...a slow, páinfull death. One that only fellow Gatts can provide

Post by **Phoenix** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:46 pm

This is, of course, assuming Gutts has the power to lift his sword once the battle's over, eh?

Post by **Libaax** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:45 pm

MrFelony wrote:sigh, zodd didnt come follow griffith at first. he is much akin to guts' wandering warrior profile. griffith had to seek him out and claim him much like he did with guts.

Zodd doesnt follow Griffith cause he has respect for him other than what Griffith is.

For a guy like Zodd to be someones soldier, the master must have something over him.

Like what Griffith did to him, practicly saying dont follow me you are dead.

Atleast thats how i read Zodd following Griffith.

Post by **Istvan** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:34 pm

You think it'll be like this with Zodd?

Almost certainly, I can't really see any way around it. Zodd made his stance on allowing Guts to fight Griffith very clear in the last chapter, and I don't see that changing. So Guts would almost have to kill him to get to Griffith. Of course, it's Miura, so one never knows for sure, but that's how I see it right now.

Post by **Gattsblackfalcon** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:32 am

Libaax wrote:
MrFelony wrote:sigh, zodd didnt come follow griffith at first. he is much akin to guts' wandering warrior profile. griffith had to seek him out and claim him much like he did with guts.
Zodd doesnt follow Griffith cause he has respect for him other than what Griffith is.

For a guy like Zodd to be someones soldier, the master must have something over him.

Like what Griffith did to him, practicly saying dont follow me you are dead.

Atleast thats how i read Zodd following Griffith.

Zodd follows Griffiths because Griffiths beat him without sweat , Zodd doesn't want to die , perhaps if Zodd feels like he can beat Griffith he will do it without doubt i guess.

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:04 am

Thats exactly how it is i think.

Some people here seem to think Zodd admires or adores Griffith or something and thats why he follows him.

Post by **Gattsblackfalcon** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:46 am

Zodd doesn't admire Griffiths , I guess he admires Gatts a little because he is still fighting like a human and haven't use the same path as him ( become an apostle ) this is the main reason i think.

Post by **MrFelony** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:38 am

Libaax wrote:Thats exactly how it is i think.

Some people here seem to think Zodd admires or adores Griffith or something and thats why he follows him.

Zodd = neo-falcon's Guts.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:57 am

...so in the end he has to whoop Griffith's ass too

Post by **|||||||** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:59 am

Guts goal changed away from killing griffith. However I'm not so sure about how he will act once casca is in a "safe" place...there is still plenty of room to speculate. I mean the kushan emperor or griffith might get interested in the elven king if he is that powerful....

Zodd goal's are quite much shrouded in mistery. It's not like we know really much about zodd. He follows griffith because of complete defeat, kind of an honor thing...besides there is this strange sensation people get caught in from this new griffith.

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:14 pm

Guts goal is bigger now it seems not only is it to kill Griffith but also other big aposltes like the kushan king.

Whatever he wants it or not, he is branded until someone take out the god hand.

Maybe he will get help from other powerful people like SK, or this elven king if he is powerful.

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:16 pm

**idly strolls by during the conversation with arms behind head** Wonder if the elven king will remove the brands?

Post by **Khelegond** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:31 pm

Nah...Starn...I mean, the Elven King it's (probably) powerfull, but not enough to remove the brands. I think so, anyway...

Post by **Starnum** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:29 pm

Well, I don't know about the elf king here in Berserk, but from everything I've seen so far, I could remove a Brand of Sacrifice without too much trouble.

I doubt the king of Elfhelm will be able to though. Admittedly, it's not really fair to compare Starnum to anyone in Berserk, as he comes from a much higher powered universe, heh.

Post by **Istvan** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:00 pm

Zodd follows Griffiths because Griffiths beat him without sweat , Zodd doesn't want to die , perhaps if Zodd feels like he can beat Griffith he will do it without doubt i guess.

Some people here seem to think Zodd admires or adores Griffith or something and thats why he follows him.

I'd disagree, I think that there has to be something a bit more then that. Remember, Zodd met (and crushed) Griffith when Griffith was still a human, but chose not to kill him because he knew that Griffith would become a God's Hand. Heck, he even protected Griffith from Wyld. If it was just a matter of fear, he'd never have done that. I'm pretty sure that Zodd actually has a certain degree of loyalty to the God's Hand. Mind you, I doubt he'd follow Griffith if Griffith couldn't crush him, but I don't think that's the only reason he follows Griffith. It's just that if Griffith couldn't do that, he'd be too weak to be worth following.

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:29 am

true that i guess, I mean I could also just grab the skin with the brand and lop off that hunk of flesh. But then again it does serve as a fantastic radar system...Apostles will never be able to stab ya from behind without you knowing. Dammit I want a brand now!!! Sasuke!!! ^_^

EDIT: I agree, Zodd has to have some form of loyalty because he was guarding the Vortex during the Eclipse. SK only got in cuz he cut his arms off and distracted him for a tick. And isn't Griffith the special God Hand, the one that brings the merging of the worlds?

Post by **Starnum** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:13 am

I seriously doubt you can get rid of The Brand of Sacrifice by just cutting it out of your skin. It's a magical curse. I'm sure it would remain regardless. It's probably flesh deep, and would still be there once you heal. If it were so easy to get rid of, you'd think Gatts would've tried that by now.

Post by **Libaax** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:46 pm

Istvan wrote:
Zodd follows Griffiths because Griffiths beat him without sweat , Zodd doesn't want to die , perhaps if Zodd feels like he can beat Griffith he will do it without doubt i guess.

Some people here seem to think Zodd admires or adores Griffith or something and thats why he follows him.
I'd disagree, I think that there has to be something a bit more then that. Remember, Zodd met (and crushed) Griffith when Griffith was still a human, but chose not to kill him because he knew that Griffith would become a God's Hand. Heck, he even protected Griffith from Wyld. If it was just a matter of fear, he'd never have done that. I'm pretty sure that Zodd actually has a certain degree of loyalty to the God's Hand. Mind you, I doubt he'd follow Griffith if Griffith couldn't crush him, but I don't think that's the only reason he follows Griffith. It's just that if Griffith couldn't do that, he'd be too weak to be worth following.

I dont think he knew Griffith was special when he was human.

Its very unlikely that Zodd knew things like that.