Newbie Berserk Discussion Thread

[Aetherfukz]

You have provided nothing original to the argument, just your heart on your sleeve.

Please find somewhere else to score your brownie points.

Dude, cut the crap already... I, Eldo and Istvan pointed out flaws in your argument. Somehow you "respected" Istvans argument, and replied to mine with calling it "inane grandstanding" and being "nuance driven". Just because I'm not an english native doesn't mean I cannot spot an insult no matter how nuance driven (see what I did there?) it might me...

You know what your style of argumenting is called? Argumentum ad hominem.

[go QQ n00b]

Goodness, why is everyone on edge?

[The Prince]

You have provided nothing original to the argument, just your heart on your sleeve.

Please find somewhere else to score your brownie points.

Dude, cut the crap already... I, Eldo and Istvan pointed out flaws in your argument. Somehow you "respected" Istvans argument, and replied to mine with calling it "inane grandstanding" and being "nuance driven". Just because I'm not an english native doesn't mean I cannot spot an insult no matter how nuance driven (see what I did there?) it might me...

You know what your style of argumenting is called? Argumentum ad hominem.

Only thing you happened to do was misquote me.

Your English is excellent BTW.

Goodness, why is everyone on edge?

Its the end of a lunar cycle.....perhaps.

Apparently there are a lot of women Berserk fans out there (on here).

[The Prince]

Looking back at the origins of our debate......

YOUR ULTIMATE TAKE......You had me!....OH WAIT!

EVIDENCE FOR (ALL)

So we have 10+ pages of evidence that subtly and directly hints that Guts cannot use the Behelit, over one panel that says he could said in a mocking manner. It seems one panel is all that is needed to destroy the previous 20+ volumes of the manga that has suggested throughout the story that he couldn't.

20+ volumes? Hmmm.....

How about one fricken' chapter, conspicuously removed (edited out) from publication by the man himself? Is such "EVIDENCE" even admissable?



To Eldo:
*To continue this discussion, why not direct it towards (resurrect) one of those infamous threads supposedly lambasting/flaming (to the point of shedding tears), anyone foolish enough to bring up the Guts/Behelit possibility.

BTW....if these instances are somewhere in the "Stupid Theory" thread....Would you be so kind to show me where? I'll take it from there.

-If not we could always end it right here.

[Eldo]

Looking back at the origins of our debate......

YOUR ULTIMATE TAKE......You had me!....OH WAIT!

EVIDENCE FOR (ALL)

So we have 10+ pages of evidence that subtly and directly hints that Guts cannot use the Behelit, over one panel that says he could said in a mocking manner. It seems one panel is all that is needed to destroy the previous 20+ volumes of the manga that has suggested throughout the story that he couldn't.

20+ volumes? Hmmm.....

How about one fricken' chapter, conspicuously removed (edited out) from publication by the man himself? Is such "EVIDENCE" even admissable?

Does it matter? It's already been established that Guts can't used the behelit because he hasn't got a fate to follow. As the behelits are responsive to only those who are fated to use it, Guts can't because he simply does not have a fate. You have already admitted that Guts has opposed his fate by surviving in the eclipse, hence he is not governed by fate, whether it be Idea or some other high power. Note that in my evidence and rationale I provided, in the post which you quoted, I did not mention that Idea saying that Guts cannot use the Behelit. So even if the chapter was removed, it would have no impact on the theory. Whether or not the concept of Idea is still going to be included in the grand scheme of things, we don't know. But we can only presume that it is, since it was printed in the serialisation of Young Animal, but omitted in the volume in fear of exposing too much of the plot (allegedly). It may be revealed later on near the end of the series, but as it was printed we are still applying the concept of Idea into our (not just myself) theories. Even without that lost chapter, there's still 20+ volumes of Berserk that still says that Guts can't use the Behelit. You can choose to ignore them, like you ignored my reasonings and posts.

To Eldo:
*To continue this discussion, why not direct it towards (resurrect) one of those infamous threads supposedly lambasting/flaming (to the point of shedding tears), anyone foolish enough to bring up the Guts/Behelit possibility.

Actually, it'll be better if you start a new thread, because necroing is strictly forbidden. Now, let's get this straight. If you're going to attempt to troll me, start a new thread in the Interstice. Otherwise, if you want to continue 'gutz cn us beheit' but minus your bitching, then let it retain here. Because it is a very, very newbie topic.

BTW....if these instances are somewhere in the "Stupid Theory" thread....Would you be so kind to show me where? I'll take it from there.

Instances of what? Regardless, no, I'm not going to search through 73 pages worth of posts. You do that on your own.

-If not we could always end it right here.

Just in case you didn't get it, the whole reason for me saying to take it outside this thread was so we don't talk about you in this thread. This is supposed to be discussion about Berserk, not your attempts to troll me. However, as mentioned above, if you still want to retain the discussion without your attempting to troll me when I find flaws and contradictions, then let it stay here. I'd much prefer if Istvan just rephrased my points along with his own so you could at least pretend to read it. I don't know how many times I could repeat the points, and yet how many times that you choose to ignore them.

[Starnum]

Gatts can't use a behelit, that's all there is to it.

[Istvan]

Looking back at the origins of our debate......

YOUR ULTIMATE TAKE......You had me!....OH WAIT!

EVIDENCE FOR (ALL)

So we have 10+ pages of evidence that subtly and directly hints that Guts cannot use the Behelit, over one panel that says he could said in a mocking manner. It seems one panel is all that is needed to destroy the previous 20+ volumes of the manga that has suggested throughout the story that he couldn't.

20+ volumes? Hmmm.....

How about one fricken' chapter, conspicuously removed (edited out) from publication by the man himself? Is such "EVIDENCE" even admissable?

As far as I can see, little (if any) of the arguments against Guts using a Behelit depend on the missing chapter. Idea never mentions anything about it. Most of the evidence on why Gut's can't use a Behelit that I've been focusing on has to do with the the meeting between the God's Hand and the Slug count, the Eclipse, the meeting with Slann in the cave, the conversation(s) with Flora, and just plain common sense (why would Guts use a behelit, even if he could? It violates everything we know about his character, and Apostles can't defeat a God's Hand, so it wouldn't even allow him to accomplish his goal). There are a number of debates that depend on the missing chapter, but hardly this one.

[The Prince]

Just in case you didn't get it, the whole reason for me saying to take it outside this thread was so we don't talk about you in this thread. This is supposed to be discussion about Berserk, not your attempts to troll me.

Me a Troll? What does that make you then?

I tried to make peace a while ago. But you had to go and have the last demeaning word.

However, as mentioned above, if you still want to retain the discussion without your attempting to troll me when I find flaws and contradictions, then let it stay here. I'd much prefer if Istvan just rephrased my points along with his own so you could at least pretend to read it. I don't know how many times I could repeat the points, and yet how many times that you choose to ignore them.

Why would I ignore you, when I find you so damn entertaining?

-If not we could always end it right here.

I'll take your latest post as a YES to this.

As far as I can see, little (if any) of the arguments against Guts using a Behelit depend on the missing chapter. Idea never mentions anything about it. Most of the evidence on why Gut's can't use a Behelit that I've been focusing on has to do with the the meeting between the God's Hand and the Slug count, the Eclipse, the meeting with Slann in the cave, the conversation(s) with Flora, and just plain common sense (why would Guts use a behelit, even if he could? It violates everything we know about his character, and Apostles can't defeat a God's Hand, so it wouldn't even allow him to accomplish his goal). There are a number of debates that depend on the missing chapter, but hardly this one.

Hello my friend!

Great point!

[Eldo]

Me a Troll? What does that make you then?

Oh, guilty. Seen the Interstice lately? Yes, I enjoy baiting you. However, you have consistently tried to troll me without success, and I have responded in kind, countering your every point. I have pointed out flaws in your theories, which seems to be the reason why you're so uptight. You have yet to do so with mine.

I tried to make peace a while ago. But you had to go and have the last demeaning word.

Maybe you can try to quote where you said that you tried to make peace. Oh wait a minute, you can't, because you didn't. The only thing you did was post that video, which seemed to be directed at me at first, and I responded to what I thought to be an attack on me, which you later apologised for the misunderstanding, in which I replied 'no apologies needed'. The situation should have been defused then. I have tried to tell you to drop your trolling against me in this thread, again and again, but yet you seem so determined to prove yourself and you continue to attack me. I have said in previous posts, 'the ball's on your court', meaning that it is up to you where you take it, to which you replied:

Wait, you didn't reply to it. Hm.

However, as mentioned above, if you still want to retain the discussion without your attempting to troll me when I find flaws and contradictions, then let it stay here. I'd much prefer if Istvan just rephrased my points along with his own so you could at least pretend to read it. I don't know how many times I could repeat the points, and yet how many times that you choose to ignore them.

Why would I ignore you, when I find you so damn entertaining?

Oh, I didn't say you ignored my posts. I said you're ignoring my points. Because you don't seem to get them, until Istvan here (take one of his posts for example, there are plenty more like this):

As far as I can see, little (if any) of the arguments against Guts using a Behelit depend on the missing chapter. Idea never mentions anything about it. Most of the evidence on why Gut's can't use a Behelit that I've been focusing on has to do with the the meeting between the God's Hand and the Slug count, the Eclipse, the meeting with Slann in the cave, the conversation(s) with Flora, and just plain common sense (why would Guts use a behelit, even if he could? It violates everything we know about his character, and Apostles can't defeat a God's Hand, so it wouldn't even allow him to accomplish his goal). There are a number of debates that depend on the missing chapter, but hardly this one.

Which some of the points I've already mentioned in the below posts:

Does it matter? It's already been established that Guts can't used the behelit because he hasn't got a fate to follow. As the behelits are responsive to only those who are fated to use it, Guts can't because he simply does not have a fate. You have already admitted that Guts has opposed his fate by surviving in the eclipse, hence he is not governed by fate, whether it be Idea or some other high power. Note that in my evidence and rationale I provided, in the post which you quoted, I did not mention that Idea saying that Guts cannot use the Behelit. So even if the chapter was removed, it would have no impact on the theory.

EVIDENCE AGAINST (SOME):
- Conrad specifically states the Guts cannot use the Behelit.
- Skull Knight calls Guts a struggler, and hints that Guts is opposing fate in several encounters. Hence, cannot use the Behelit.
- Flora the witch confirms to Guts that the Behelit is controlled and activated by fate, and as above mentioned, Guts cannot use the Behelit.

1) If Guts was to use the behelit and become an apostle, it would mean that he is under the control of the God Hand, as with Zodd and all the rest of them. Also, being an apostle would not make him as strong as a God Hand, so this path is moot. If we are to believe that Guts is to take down the God Hand, then this would not be the option he would take.

Unless you need me to break down each sentence to side by side to show you the similarities, I think it's pretty clear that our points are pretty similar.

To which you replied:

Hello my friend!

Great point!

It's amazing how similar the points in Istvan's posts are to mine, isn't it? Now, it seems that since you seem to be getting Istvan's points, would you still say that Guts can use a behelit, considering all the points that Istvan (I won't mention myself, because you choose not to accept mine) mentioned, or would you continue to believe that Guts could use a behelit, despite you making no responses to our points?

[psi29a]

Right, isn't this discussion moot? We have a FAQ, in it points out the reasons as to why Guts can't use the behelit and/or become an apostle. It can be argued against till everyone is blue in the face, but as far as the entirety of the EG team is concerned, he won't and can't. If the status changes, we will update the FAQ. Till then can we find something else to argue/troll about because this topic is almost 1.5 decades old.

[lon3vvolf]

I have a noob-ish question. I'm trying to make some omake and I'm just wondering what font EG uses in their translations. Making the text bubbles isn't that bad, but making the text seem authentic is. Thanks.

[The Prince]

Me a Troll? What does that make you then?

Oh, guilty. Seen the Interstice lately? Yes, I enjoy baiting you. However, you have consistently tried to troll me without success, and I have responded in kind, countering your every point. I have pointed out flaws in your theories, which seems to be the reason why you're so uptight. You have yet to do so with mine.

If you're going to troll do it in the interstice.

I tried to make peace a while ago. But you had to go and have the last demeaning word.

Maybe you can try to quote where you said that you tried to make peace. Oh wait a minute, you can't, because you didn't. The only thing you did was post that video, which seemed to be directed at me at first, and I responded to what I thought to be an attack on me, which you later apologised for the misunderstanding, in which I replied 'no apologies needed'. The situation should have been defused then. I have tried to tell you to drop your trolling against me in this thread, again and again, but yet you seem so determined to prove yourself and you continue to attack me. I have said in previous posts, 'the ball's on your court', meaning that it is up to you where you take it, to which you replied:

Wait, you didn't reply to it. Hm.

Hmmm...yes I did.

On this page actually.

As far as I can see, little (if any) of the arguments against Guts using a Behelit depend on the missing chapter. Idea never mentions anything about it. Most of the evidence on why Gut's can't use a Behelit that I've been focusing on has to do with the the meeting between the God's Hand and the Slug count, the Eclipse, the meeting with Slann in the cave, the conversation(s) with Flora, and just plain common sense (why would Guts use a behelit, even if he could? It violates everything we know about his character, and Apostles can't defeat a God's Hand, so it wouldn't even allow him to accomplish his goal). There are a number of debates that depend on the missing chapter, but hardly this one.

Does it matter? It's already been established that Guts can't used the behelit because he hasn't got a fate to follow. As the behelits are responsive to only those who are fated to use it, Guts can't because he simply does not have a fate. You have already admitted that Guts has opposed his fate by surviving in the eclipse, hence he is not governed by fate, whether it be Idea or some other high power. Note that in my evidence and rationale I provided, in the post which you quoted, I did not mention that Idea saying that Guts cannot use the Behelit. So even if the chapter was removed, it would have no impact on the theory.

EVIDENCE AGAINST (SOME):
- Conrad specifically states the Guts cannot use the Behelit.
- Skull Knight calls Guts a struggler, and hints that Guts is opposing fate in several encounters. Hence, cannot use the Behelit.
- Flora the witch confirms to Guts that the Behelit is controlled and activated by fate, and as above mentioned, Guts cannot use the Behelit.

1) If Guts was to use the behelit and become an apostle, it would mean that he is under the control of the God Hand, as with Zodd and all the rest of them. Also, being an apostle would not make him as strong as a God Hand, so this path is moot. If we are to believe that Guts is to take down the God Hand, then this would not be the option he would take.

Unless you need me to break down each sentence to side by side to show you the similarities, I think it's pretty clear that our points are pretty similar.

To which you replied:

Hello my friend!

Great point!

Stop taking credit for Istvan's insight.

....Above all lighten up!

My Final Statement on This...for Now:

I'm well aware that (save for us newbs) members have seen this topic come up like clock-work, and has been discussed at length many times. Clearly a consensus has be reached among veteran members. And respect the opinions of all, if not most....petty, smarty pants rhetoric aside.

But this is the "Newb thread" after all.

The basis of my argument has always been about why the Guts/Behelit hypothesis can't completely be ruled out.
As shown this goes against the conventional wisdom among members/experts/mods/vets on this site. I made my argument, and considered yours (others as well). Although there are plenty reasons against it, I tried pointing out several reasons for it.

YET......

-After reading these arguments, if you ask me do I think Guts would ever use the behelit for the purpose of becoming an apostle?

NO!

-But if you ask me if Guts would utilize (make use of the behelit) for whatever reason?

I don't know for sure, as I'm not convinced that it is an impossibility. And happen to think that the behelit Guts carries with him will come into play at some point in the future.

Here's my official "making peace" statement.

[Eldo]

If you're going to troll do it in the interstice.

No, if YOU are going to continue trolling me, then YOU take it in the Interstice. I have said many times for you to stop in this thread, but you are damned persistent. I am only responding to YOUR attacks on me. You attack me, I attack you back.

Hmmm...yes I did.

On this page actually.

Maybe you can try to quote the part of your post where you tried to make peace. I have told you that you could continue your trolling on me in the Interstice, AND not in this thread or either drop it. You have done neither.

Stop taking credit for Istvan's insight.

....Above all lighten up!

You do understand the purpose of that post? I am not taking credit for Istvan's insight, BUT I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED THE SAME POINTS ISTVAN MADE THAT YOU REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE BEFORE HE POSTED. Feel free to check the dates. If Istvan and myself say the same points, we are not taking credit from each other, but we are in accordance and agreement with our theories. Yet, unfortunately, you don't seem to be reading them. Now, you still haven't responded, in light of Istvan's posts, do you still believe that Guts can use the Behelit, and why? Try to find some contradictions and additional evidence to support your claim.

Now, final chance. Either YOU stop your 'grudge' against me right now, leave your subtle attacks and remarks directed at me and continue on with the discussion, or YOU can continue your bullshit preferably out of this thread and in the Interstice. I emphasise the 'YOU', because it is up to you where you want to take it, not me.

EDIT: It seems that you made a 'peace statement', so fine. Consider this matter dropped.

[Tonbo]

So, there are a lot of words in this thread. I don't know what they mean so I'm going to start from scratch.

I think Gatts is going to use the behelit to summon the god hand.

[Rolos]

Oh god!!!! this cant be happening.....

I am going to FUCKING KILL YOU!!!!

If you ever ask that question again I will personally track you down and kill you and your entire family!!!!

[Istvan]

So, there are a lot of words in this thread. I don't know what they mean so I'm going to start from scratch.

I think Gatts is going to use the behelit to summon the god hand.

If I thought you were serious, I'd probably help Rolos out. Still, you might want to work on your timing. Under the circumstances, and given the level of frustration that this discussion arose, some people probably don't have a great sense of humor on the subject at the moment.

[Rolos]

I understand what you say Itsvan, but this guy just crossed the thin red line.

What he did was like......making racist jokes in a all-black* bar.
After endless arguments, when everyone thought the " Gutts Can/Cant use behelit conflict" (as it will be known from now on) was finally over, this jackass comes and asks for an ass beating by making the forbidden question



* I read on "On Wings of Eagles" by Ken Follet that thats the name for bars where only Afroamericans are allowed.......... anyway, Its just an example. You get the point, right?

[War Machine]

You do realize Tonbo was joking, right?

[The Prince]

You do realize Tonbo was joking, right?

Was he?

Because I don't happen to agree with that he may not be right on this.

[War Machine]

You do realize Tonbo was joking, right?

Was he?

Because I don't happen to agree with that he may not be right on this.

Well, the topic ended with you all stopping the discussion and then he comes up saying that he won't read anything and brings it up again. That was definitely meant as a joke, man.

[Rolos]

But as I said before,there are certain things you simply don't joke about.
AND, even if you are going to joke about those things anyway, there are moments for that, and this wasn't exactly the perfect occasion.

[MrFelony]

whats the big fucking deal about it.

[Rolos]

Did you read all the discussion?
It lasted like......4 pages. 4 endless pages of dense and repetitive arguments that were repeated over and over again, with only the order in which the facts were presented changing.
When it was finally over, some idiot comes and asks the same damn question......you have to admit its annoying, if not down right infuriating.

I got pissed. Is that simple. I don't care if its a joke, it wasn't the moments nor the place to make it.

[hbi2k]

Hey, here's a wacky thought. Why don't we spend the NEXT four pages arguing about whether a one-line joke at the expense of the LAST four pages of arguing was okay or not.

Wait, no, that's not what I meant. Let's do the opposite of what I just said and drop it, okay? Yeah, I think I like that idea better. (-:

[Rolos]

hilarious hbi2k.....you simply have the gift....this and the abridged series......you are the god of humor.