Evil Genius

Great after all the drama we're finally talking about berserk . Well on Roderick and Magnifico going along with the gang, I've been think they might since when they started talking about their ambitions to explore new lands and gain power. The thing I'm interested in is "Georgio Do Vandimion"(in charge of the Bank) and "Politiano Do Vandimion"(Governor General for the Vatican) they seem to be important or why else put them in the bottom right frame of the last page(ch 261)? These two are of key importance for the fight against the Kushan Empire, plus Griffith? but they don't stand a chance without Guts, but Guts is unlikely to stay, well not for long at least. Even if like I said Schierke and Farnese get him to save the city, he's not going to stay for long. So it's likely Roderick and Magnifico are going with the Gang as it fits with their plans for finding power, but what will the Vandimion's do? Seeing the strength of the Kushan they are likely to do a rethink on the War, if Guts&Co save them of course . So will after seeing Guts and Schierke's power will they use the armada to set sail with them too, or will they fight a losing battle at home? I don't know but I can't wait to see !

if they go it will probably only be to associate wiht guts' awesomeness

this sentence probaly has a meaning...I just can't get my hand on it

I think those two can get into a lot of trouble

uhhh what are you talking about skull

Well everyone wants to be Guts associate but you can't blame them for that . Well we'll find out soon enough unless they switch over to Griffith again?

Anyway..... that would be a good Idea run from your doom it is probably their only choice. I wander where Sonia got her vision of the city was it from Griffith or can she see into the future. Well all that we know for sure is that Guts makes his own future!!

I like how Miura gave everyone a chance to leave Guts but none did

thx for the info

actually Idea does :p

I think Sonia can see the flow of fate but only generally not in detail.

As for them running it depends really? We have heard that Farnese's father isn't good at changing to unexpected events so he's going to try and get things back to normal. So he may stay out of stubbornness for what he knows, where as Roderick and Magnifico who are young and ambitious will travel to seek their fortune. It would explain why we see the key people who will fight the Kushan, as Miura could be setting up us for see what happens (probably the fall of the other countries) when Guts&Co are travelling. I've been thinking it's most likely the purpose of the Emperor Ganishka and his followers are to destroy the the other kingdoms to set the scene for Griffith to rule them all. But if we are to see this it will ever be from the Hawks or Silat point of view going by the people we know, but if the fight against the Kushan is dependant on the Vandimion we will see from the top how the other countries crumble in to submission.

As for Guts making his own future, I've always love the fact he is just a man that struggles with the shit that happens, but I wondered if he is really free? The one thing that makes me think he is now at least making his own fate is that Miura has had Both Griffith(ch186) and Guts(ch124) described as paintings. Whether this shows he has free will is unclear but it does shows he has the ability to inspire others like Griffith does (ch193)and stand above the flow of fate or at least doesn't feel it to the same extent as others. Well at least I hope, as I want him to Kick Griffith supposedly untouchable ass. Which does bring up the point how is Guts going to get near him, because in ch193 Silat Big muscle men were thrown down with seemingly the same power Femto used? So hows Guts going to beat that I wounder?

Idea's hand in fate is unclear but we know he "manipulated History" to make thing what they are now, but if he has absolute control or merely knows how to use it and to what extent it can is unknown.

is english your first language...cause that post needs major reconstruction at points.

my 2 cents. Idea is painting guts' fate just as much as griffith. he weaves the peoples will and desire. there is the desire for power and money, but there is also the desire for good to triumph for evil and salvation/to be saved.

Hmm I would normally play the "I'm dyslexic" card but I think the, "it was 1:44 am" will work for this one . What advantage is their in weaving Guts fate after the eclipse? He's only going to be trouble?

its not about him being trouble or not. thats his purpose. you cant have an evil emperor without someone to oppose him. Idea has watched starwars probably

Well isn't that like I said Griffiths job? He's meant to be the Savior of the people, the blind white sheep? Guts was meant to die but he struggles on, I just don't think Idea really planned for Guts or at least couldn't get rid of him.

errr...the general idea is that griffit is the black hawk in disguise as the white...and guts is the white confused for the black. its a common plot theme...this arguement also wont go anywhere cause its all about interpretation

I thought the prophecy meant both Light and Dark were Griffith or that's how I read it. I don't think Guts is in the prophecy at all, he's a wild beast not a Hawk.

Guts isn't bound by destiny, so he can't be in the prophecy. But he can change it.

Baz wrote:I thought the prophecy meant both Light and Dark were Griffith or that's how I read it. I don't think Guts is in the prophecy at all, he's a wild beast not a Hawk.

The prophecy was interpreted by "man" and what do man know about "godly" things.

Maybe idea himself is controled by fate, too.
No one can really say that. After all even those who walk outside of the path of fate are bound by fate, 'cause to not be bound by fate is their fate.
Paradoxical isn't it?

Those who are not bound by fate, decide their own. So it's not that paradoxical.

so: not being bound by fate is real freedom

and a prophecy is prophecy becouse it is inspired by divine being(s for that matter)

Guts is like the fly in the soup

Guts is bound by fate,his fate is to hunt down the dark hawk aka Femto.

Isn't the jist of Beserk that man can (or was it cannot?) change his own fate. You know the whole part in the anime before the show starts...

SK cahnged it for him...temporarily...

its so obvious, IMO, that guts is bound by fate. all those little coincidences that happen to him that cause him to do one thing vs another just the same way it happened to griffith. but this arguement is stupid because it all roots down in your belief of whether or not man has free will

What Felony says has a good ring of truth in it.

And Drizzit, during the anime the reoccuring theme was that man, could not in fact, change his fate. The idea in both the anime and manga of the Behelits always being in the hands of those who will have need of them and are worthy, are quite a big point towards the idea that the world is indeed bound by fate. As such, even if the person who the Behelit was destined to be used by threw it away, it would come back to them when they needed it the most, as happened to Griffith before becoming Femto.

However then points like Gatts and Caska escaping the Eclipse bring up the idea that fate is not definate. As even Zodd had predicted that Gatts spending time around Griffith would cause his death one day when Griffiths ambition became too great. However, later on Zodd tells Gatts that he survived despite his propechy and even congratulates him.

When I read Berserk, I like to equate it to another book series...not sure how many have ever read it or heard of it, but it's called the Wheel of Time. In the Wheel of Time, there are exceptional people in the world known as Ta'veren. Ta'veren can actually influence fate and destiny just by being in the general area at the correct time. How things ended at the Tower of Conviction would be a good example. With both of the branded ones there, there was a scene where Puck was contemplating if Gatts and Caska had not been there, if it would have ever escalated to the extent it did. And even just in the average day, bad luck and fighting seems to follow Gatts and Caska, all because of their brands. Therefore somewhat influencing the area around them.

Anyway, I'm rambling. So I'm gonna shut up before I start making even less sense.

Ahhhh, the Waste of Time series...

Book 11 hits in about a month. Given what a boring, uneventful and repetetive ripoff book 10 was, though, I'm gonna have to hear some sweet words from reviewers before I even bother picking it off the shelf.

Your point about Guts being something like ta'averen is sound, though... normal people are bound by fate, but there are those who influence it instead.