Evil Genius

Okay, I skipped to the spot where the Count calls the God Hand...and then I ended up reading the whole darn volume! Damn it! Anyways...

Slan: If that boy became one of ours...I'd love it!
Conrad: But he hasn't been ordained by the laws of fate...So he can't be among us.

Well, I already knew that. Void just tries to coax the Count into sacrificing Theresia. The only new thing I noticed about him is that he has six fingers. He didn't mention Guts at all.

Skull Knight is an "apos-sible". He might be, he might not be. Though something must have happened between the two before Void's "ascension". I'm just wondering where Skull Knight could have gotten his power elsewhere. The elemental gods, well, maybe...But Skull Knight doesn't use any elemental attacks.

So, it wasn't Void who said that , was Conrad , Oh well , then the possibilty exist to Gatts or not?

As for the SK , yea how he obtained that power ? from where? those questions are impossible to answer at this moment with the little info we had about him, we just have to wait until Miura decides when is the right time to tell SK past.

Haha I like that... SK is an "apos-sible" .

Hello, this is my first post. I would assume that this is the correct thread to post in.

What I think happened to Gaiseric, and ultimately the Skull Knight, is the very thing that we see being avoided by Guts in the latest episodes. Guts undergoes a transformation during battle due to his use of the berserker armor. It is continually made apparent that if Guts were to continue to be transformed in such a way, he would eventually be absorbed by the Beast of Darkness.

Now, what I think is very telling of Skull Knight's ascent/descent to his current form is the shape of the berserker armor when Guts first receives it. It is very similar to the Skull Knight's form.

It is inferred that Gaiseric donned the berserker armor, perhaps to become the fearsome warrior he must have been in order to construct a united kingdom; or perhaps he didn't even know of or use the armor until he came into contention with the God Hand, which--to my understanding--would have been limited to Void at that time.

That said, were Void and perhaps even Zodd who--if I remember correctly--claimed to have been in a thousand-year conflict with SK, to be constant enemies--not to mention the legions of apostles, Gaiseric would most definitely be driven to use the armor repeatedly and perhaps excessively; which would ultimately transform his outward body into the skeletal form that developed from his psyche, much like Gut's Beast of Darkness.

Pros of this argument
+the condition of the berserker armor.
+the apparent and constantly referred to effects of the berserker armor.
+SK would be a good explanation to what could happen to Guts if he were to continue an unfettered use of the berserker armor.
+Gut's and Schierke's relationship perhaps is a correction of the mistakes that SK and Flora made in the past.

Cons
-Flora could have played the same role as Schierke plays to Guts.
-Not sufficient evidence that the transformed state of the armor would produce immortality.
-How/Why the armor would separate from SK's body.

Quick note on the possible cons:

I personally don't think SK is alive or immortal in the sense that we are used to it meaning. I think SK is the result of Gaiseric's spirit over powering his material body via the berserker armor, thus resulting in a not-alive/not-dead being--undead, which goes with his motif.

Further, if SK was branded, perhaps the effects of living on the fringe between realities can produce some kind of paradoxical immortality, such as: one cannot be killed until they have achieved their sacraficial status, until then they must roam the fringe in a purgatory-like state. Well, I believe I should stop before I get ahead of myself.

First welcome

And second quite an interesting theory/idea you had about SK .

I like the idea of Gaiseric's spirit over powering the berserker armor, that could explain why the SK seems like an emty shell ( I said this because the way he pulled out the sword from his mouth ).

Interesting indeed.

Yes, interesting. I like this argument mainly because it coincides with my own beliefs about Skull Knight. Although there's no hard evidence for it, there isn't any to go against it either.

The only thing I can see is the issue with immortality. When Guts steps out from the spirit tree in his new armor, Zodd immediately asks Skull Knight if he plans to make Guts follow the same path he did. That could mean that the armor is responsible for his current state, but it might not be the sole reason. It wouldn't explain the full scale of Skull Knight's power. I doubt he could have created the Sword of Resonance through the magic of the armor alone.

Guts would have lost his ego as soon as the armor transformed had it not been for Flora's seal. So the armor might still absorb him should something go wrong. Then would he become an immortal, like Skull Knight? Schierke says that the previous owner was devoured by the "teeth" of the armor until he died. So maybe something happened to Skull Knight in death, rather than while he was alive. Maybe. It almost certainly has something to do with Flora.

Quick note on the possible cons:

I personally don't think SK is alive or immortal in the sense that we are used to it meaning. I think SK is the result of Gaiseric's spirit over powering his material body via the berserker armor, thus resulting in a not-alive/not-dead being--undead, which goes with his motif.

Further, if SK was branded, perhaps the effects of living on the fringe between realities can produce some kind of paradoxical immortality, such as: one cannot be killed until they have achieved their sacraficial status, until then they must roam the fringe in a purgatory-like state. Well, I believe I should stop before I get ahead of myself.

A very interesting theory. Personally, I think there's more then just the armor behind SK's current form and state (how would the armor allow him to swallow all those Behelits, and form them around a sword, for example) but I do think it was the first step.

I also like your idea about SK's immortality. Personally, I wonder if the brand makes it impossible for the bearer to age. The brand is designed to pledge the bearer as a sacrifice to evil, so I wouldn't be suprised if it makes it impossible to die peacefully (remember it was mentioned in the eclipse that every drop of pain and agony go to the chosen) so dying of old age just might not be possible any more. This is only a theory, of course, but it makes sense to me as to why SK is still around, and doesn't seem to be influenced by his age.

I wasnt saying he is an elemental king, just wondering if they had some sort of process to become a "good apostle."

However I do think that it probably had something to do with the armor and some witch craft of Flora's maybe. Maybe the armor devoured his flesh leaving only his Skeleton to live on forever . Either way this is all fun speculation lol

EDIT: in response to something scary monster said:

what guts and shierke are doing now could have been done by SK and flora, and could also have been the reason why he survived and has taken the form he has now. It would make sense because he wasnt the first or only person to use the armor, and probably many other people died while using the armor.

MrFelony wrote:EDIT: in response to something scary monster said:

what guts and shierke are doing now could have been done by SK and flora, and could also have been the reason why he survived and has taken the form he has now. It would make sense because he wasnt the first or only person to use the armor, and probably many other people died while using the armor.

Still, what happened between Guts and Schierke was accidental. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she just happened to be on his back at the moment of transformation--which resulted in her "spirit" being absorbed by the armor as well.

Now it's perfectly well to make the argument that perhaps Flora, who would certainly know more than her student, would have known how to do this from the outset.

However, I can't ignore the foreshadowing that has pervaded the last couple chapters about Gut's continual use of the armor. Nor can I ignore the allusions to the past between Flora, SK, and Zodd.

SK's current existence is obviously a negative one that would not have been actively pursued by Flora, who probably cared deeply for Gaiseric--there is enough information to assume that they cared for one another.

Of course, there is so much we do not know right now that it's difficult to try to put together a puzzle with missing pieces (but filling them in is quite entertaining).

I think that the relation ship parallels between both SK, Void, Flora and Guts, Griffith/Femto, Schierke will only go so far. Like I said before, I think that Guts path will follow SK's closely, but will right the wrongs. I can't see the series culminating in Guts' transformation into some undead being in order to get revenge. It is incessantly driven into us that Guts is trying to abandon the path of bestial vengence to pursue a more protective role towards Casca and those close to him.

I think back to when Guts returned to the Band of the Hawk after his falling out with Griffith. When he returned, he realized that he already had found his dream--a group of people that love/respect/need him. It was made apparent that his future would no longer follow the mindlessly violent path that had dominated his youth.

Oh well, I said too much again.

Monster: I believe that Guts is actually spiralling down a similar path to griffith's. his attempt to heal casca and all the distractions from his earlier quest to kill griffith are similar to griffith's love for guts and how it eventually led him off his path of attaining a kingdom. all the similarities between pre-eclipse griffith and post-eclipse guts are what brought me to the notion that there is some tragic end coming to this seemingly happy family. however there is so much we don't know that nothing is close to being a sound guess since so many things can happen. A couple of questions I'd like answered if someone could (if i had the manga i'd look em up myself) but:

How old is flora? im pretty sure she said somewhere when guts and all them visited

Did it actually say anything about Flora knowing Gaiseric? If i remember her age correctly i thought she was about 300 years old...700years too late for her to have known gaiseric.

the reason why i believe that guts' attempt to rear away from his pursuit of griffith is being "driven into us" is because it sets us up for such a bigger downfall much like griffith's pursuit of a kingdom and creating a bond with all of the hawks set us up very nicely for the eclipse.

I feel that Guts is destined to fight and struggle for his life, and that Idea won't allow him to settle down.

another funny similarity between the two paths of Guts and Griffith is that Griffith had Zodd watching over him, where as Guts has SK watching over him, making sure he stays alive lol . I know most of you think a lot of these connections are stretches, but when a thin string is combined together with many other thing strings, you are left with a thick rope .

Griffith's love for Guts?


I have just reread vol 5-7 when Hawks becomes famous and Guts leaves.


Griffith didnt see any of them as friends meaning he didnt care about them other than as weapons specially Guts, who made him the hero of 100 year war.


Griffith actually wanted to kill him before letting Guts go cause he was so afraid of losing his assasain and raid leader.

He thought if i attack this way, i can stop him after one swing but that he mgiht kill him at the same time which he didnt care about cause he didnt wanna lose his powerhouse.


Please reread before you go about how much Griffith LOVED Guts...


Wanting something doesnt mean you love it.


I actually had forgot about how Griffith made Guts his fricking assasin and said dont tell the other " they cant think i am bad" like he isnt....



Dont wanna sound harsh but i just reread that part and remember Griffith was so evil cause he wanted power so much that he would kill people that would die for him.

i reread it a lot and developed this idea over a year ago. griffith DID love guts, thats why he COULDNT lose him. not just because he was a powerhouse, but because he was HIS. have you ever seen the movie about a stalker where the stalker has the mind set "if i cant have him no one can" and she tries to kill him because he rejects her? its like that. I'm not saying its a normal love, but he does love griffith.'


For all of griffiths strengths, i see a lot of weakness in him and a lot of insecurities. The most confident people are often times the people with some big insecurities. myself for example, one of my friends literally didnt believe me at first when i told him i was insecure about anything. i believe his exact words were "what do [i[you[/i] have to be insecure about." It's sorta like hot chicks, they are often times, the most insecure women you'll meet (that is if you've spent enough time around hot chicks to find that out ).

all those times he went to guts for comfort that he isnt really a bad guy, how fucked up he got about losing people, especially that little kid. Griffith really spent a lot of time convincing himself that he didnt care about anyone below him to the point that he finally believed it himself.

EDIT: notice what guts was doing when he was the blackswordsman? he was convincing himself that the "ants beneath his feet" didnt matter to the point where he believed it at times.

It can't be denied that Griffith told the princess that his soldiers were not necessarily his friends. With that in mind, it can't be said that Griffith felt absolutely nothing for Guts. If that was true he wouldn't have been so devastated when Guts left. Although I believe what he felt at that time runs deeper than that. Throughout his life Griffith had always been in control, he always got what he wanted and he never lost. Up until that moment, Griffith must have felt that everything was in the palm of his hand and a situation like that is the perfect set-up for the perfect downfall.

He relied heavily on Guts and Griffith knew he was imperative to the success of the Hawks, but I don't think he loved him. He also told Guts that he would decide where Guts would die for him. Again, Griffith was in control. So when Guts destroyed him with one strike, Griffith had lost, completely. Guts, who he had relied on so much to achieve his dream, had "abandoned" him. Griffith must have felt that everything he'd worked for had come crashing down. Of course, he wasn't about to give up and when he made his move on the princess, he was trying to grasp his dream, not because he was on the rebound from losing his "love". Well, that's my take on it anyways.

He felt something for Guts that for sure but dont tell me LOVE is selfishly wanting someone so bad that you would kill that person so none else can have him.




Dont come with romanticized theories to prove something that wasnt there when you actually read that part of the manga.

The little boy with the fire dagger is the coolest.

Isidro is the coolest...After Guts, Skull Knight, Zodd, Grunbeld, Rakshas and whole load of other characters I can't think of right now.

Libaax wrote:He felt something for Guts that for sure but dont tell me LOVE is selfishly wanting someone so bad that you would kill that person so none else can have him.

Dont come with romanticized theories to prove something that wasnt there when you actually read that part of the manga.

Libaax, I can't tell if you were aiming at me or Felony or both. But I never said that Griffith loved Guts.

EnglishJim wrote:Isidro is the coolest...After Guts, Skull Knight, Zodd, Grunbeld, Rakshas and whole load of other characters I can't think of right now.

even after Puck

EnglishJim wrote:Isidro is the coolest...After Guts, Skull Knight, Zodd, Grunbeld, Rakshas and whole load of other characters I can't think of right now.

Libaax wrote:He felt something for Guts that for sure but dont tell me LOVE is selfishly wanting someone so bad that you would kill that person so none else can have him.

Dont come with romanticized theories to prove something that wasnt there when you actually read that part of the manga.

Libaax, I can't tell if you were aiming at me or Felony or both. But I never said that Griffith loved Guts.

I aimed at mrfelony cause his crazy idea that Griffith loved Guts.

I know you dont have have the same crazy idea as felony about that.


I dont think someone as Griffith would know what love is even if he tried to find out for an eternity.

EnglishJim wrote:Isidro is the coolest...After Guts, Skull Knight, Zodd, Grunbeld, Rakshas and whole load of other characters I can't think of right now.

Stop acting like bitches. Get off of their dicks.

Little fire dagger boy, Isidro or whatever is the coolest "N' word.

Malvado wrote:

EnglishJim wrote:Isidro is the coolest...After Guts, Skull Knight, Zodd, Grunbeld, Rakshas and whole load of other characters I can't think of right now.

Stop acting like bitches. Get off of their dicks.

Little fire dagger boy, Isidro or whatever is the coolest "N' word.

Acting like a bitch? I just gave my opinion.

He's there for hardly anything other than comic relief. Isidro sucks.

Screw ishidoro Puck is the greatest ever




Really really miss when he had a bigger role both comedy wise and storywise.

No no no! Fire knife boy! He escaped bandits by hiding in a wheel and rolling down a hill.

I just gave my opinion.

I don't believe in them. There is only one truth and that is what I speak.

damn right there is!

now back in your corner Casca-boy!

Caska-boy?

Malvado wrote:There is only one truth and that is what I speak.

Jesus said the same thing.

Puck for teh win.

Haha ok, i'll stop.

EnglishJim wrote:
Puck for teh win.

Yeah Puck is teh shit, althought my favorite always will be Gatts ( I also like SK, Zodd and Slan too ).