Evil Genius

Take your time, just wanted a confirmation. Information was scarce, is all-

I definitely agree that the attention to detail in Berserk is epic (visually and story-wise) and should take a proportionally epic amount of time to create. I've also been hearing the two sides for a while now. Some people say he slacks off all the time and others that he's working his ass off making the manga. Does anyone actually know anything about this? Has he said anything in interviews? Are there any stalkers recording his every move on their blogs? I would be interested to know how much time he actually spends on Berserk.

@Starnum
Wow, you amuse me. I agree quality takes time, say two or three weeks, NOT 4 MONTHS. This story is good, but not near good enough to justify a paltry sum of 20 pages from a 4 month wait. Miura is clearly not working on it. Look at the declining release rate stretching back years. He has no business making the manga if the fool suspends it after every chapter.
Your idiocy is outstanding Starnum.

Also, the quality of the manga itself has also been declining in my opinion and not the artwork, but the story itself. I think many fans will agree with me on this one. Of course I don't expect lunatics like you to agree with me on anything. I also hate to break this one to you, but if you seriously think that Berserk is comparable to LoTR, I really have no business talking to you. I made the suggestion about fantasy novels because it might open your eyes to how average the experience is in reading Berserk.

@Rolos
My assertion that Berserk is of average story telling is based upon me reading other works of fantasy. Now, novels obviously don't give you the visual dynamic that Berserk is able to utilize, but if some of the fantasy novels out there were put into visual form, they would easily top Berserk.
Now, I will say that Miura has a real talent for making manga, but this doesn't excuse him not caring enough to work on it. I never said it was bad or mediocre.

For me Berserk is consistent enough at every release in terms of quality. We're not on a downside storywise, there's plenty of philosophy, culture and (sometimes lovecraftian)creepyness. It does take a long time in between chapters releases but I've got plenty of stuff to read besides Berserk so that my appreciation of the manga isn't affected by it's schedule. If you find your Berserk reading experience average, maybe you should take the time between chapters to explore other books and not concern yourself that much about it's release schedule and just go along for the ride, hoping to get a faster pace of release and to see the end of it at some point of course.

You need fast releases, I hear Naruto is keeping the pace

turkey wrote: Now, fujinsan, you seriously need to read some fantasy books or something if you think berserk is so amazing, which i consider to be an average quality story. Miura isn't this genius author you think he is. He's talented, but not anything to get obsessive over.

Don't be so foolish that you presume to know that no other mangaka could continue with a decent story. If a new author took over, you know, they might actually WORK ON IT. derp. This is something that has escaped Miura, it doesn't matter how good the story is so long as he makes a habit of suspending it

Consistent releases is key, people

Yeah I've read my fare share of fantasy novels, I'm a very avid reader, if you haven't heard. I'll have to disagree with you on your statement about Berserk being "an average quality story" because of the depth of the Berserk story. In many manga's you'd see a heroic figure with a gigantic sword, and that's it for that character, he has a big sword, no other appeal just a big sword. Now in Berserk when you see guts you don't just see a big sword you see rage and fury, you see a human struggling to accomplish his goals. The story in itself is so good in my opinion it should win an award.

With scenery, that looks almost as if the Artist had traced over a picture. With character detail so vivid, that not one other soldier looks the same. The artwork in Berserk is grade A material and you can't argue with that.

I agree, the wait for the next Berserk chapter is pretty long, but you can't bastardize the writer/artist for that, some things can't be helped. Have you ever heard the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you." It's true in this case you're talking shit about the author when you yourself is a Berserk fan. I don't understand why people can hate something so much that's brought them so much joy.

P.S-I wrote this at like 4 a.m if my grammer's a bit off sorry.

turkey wrote:@Starnum
Wow, you amuse me. I agree quality takes time, say two or three weeks, NOT 4 MONTHS. This story is good, but not near good enough to justify a paltry sum of 20 pages from a 4 month wait. Miura is clearly not working on it. Look at the declining release rate stretching back years. He has no business making the manga if the fool suspends it after every chapter.
Your idiocy is outstanding Starnum.

Also, the quality of the manga itself has also been declining in my opinion and not the artwork, but the story itself. I think many fans will agree with me on this one. Of course I don't expect lunatics like you to agree with me on anything. I also hate to break this one to you, but if you seriously think that Berserk is comparable to LoTR, I really have no business talking to you. I made the suggestion about fantasy novels because it might open your eyes to how average the experience is in reading Berserk.

You're right, you really have no business talking to me, so why don't you go fuck off then. Did I say anything about you, or use your name? No I didn't. As I said in my post, my comment wasn't targeted to anyone specifically, but if you took it personally, then that's your problem. More than anything I'm just tired of hearing people go on about how much they hate Miura, or how mad they are that he isn't giving them his manga which they love so much. I understand that people are frustrated from the waiting, but it's when they post stupid stuff like that guy I quoted that it bothers me. To me that's backwards logic. He has no right making the manga he created? Now that line of thinking is down right idiotic, but I don't expect you to understand. You would have the man stripped of his life's work, for your own personal benefit. What a fucking tool. Now, did I say he spends every waking moment working on Berserk? No, I didn't. In an interview with Miura, he claims to work tirelessly on Berserk, even at the risk of his own health. Of course I don't expect you to believe anything he says, because you're only worried about your own gain. Before the decline in releases that you mentioned, he was working on it so much that it started to effect his health. You know, so maybe he decided to slow down and actually have a life. Your sole basis of my idiocy seems to be that you think that I think it takes him 4 months to make a chapter. However, did you ever stop to think that maybe he's planing during that time to make sure the story comes out just right, doing research, actually preparing the art ahead of time, and generally having a fucking life? No of course not. You don't care if the man works himself into the grave as long as you get what you want, right? He created Berserk all by himself, and still works on it pretty much completely alone. Berserk wouldn't exist without him, and if he so choses he could say fuck it and just stop making it. He's the creator, he has the final say on what happens with Berserk. You know, sometimes good writing takes time and careful planning, more than two or three weeks even. You think he's spending those four months working on just one chapter? If so, then you are stupid. Are you too dense to understand that maybe he's using that time to plan several chapters ahead? Miura isn't so short sighted as you. He doesn't just shit out one chapter at a time with no forethought to the story like some mangaka, he's always looking down the road and planning ahead. If you think of it that way, you might be able to understand how he would need the time to make sure everything works out just right. Oh, and God forbid the man actually have a life, right? The fact that his releases used to be quicker, was because he was constantly working on it all by himself. Give the man a break. No, I'm sure you'd be content to lock him in your basement and make him work like a slave. You know, I'll admit it kind of bothers me that I didn't say shit to you or say anything about you personally, and just because I disagree with your backwards ass retard logic that someone else should take over Berserk, you wanna personally call me out. Well if my idiocy is so outstanding then why don't you get the fuck out of here and go read someone else's scans. I'd hate for you to read our Berserk releases which may be tainted with my idiocy, or have you not noticed that I'm one of the people who helps to make it possible for you to read Berserk on this forum. Oh wait, I just remembered, you don't give a fuck about the people that make it possible for you to read Berserk, like Miura. You want someone else to take over Berserk, then go read someone elses scans while you're at it, ungrateful prick. I mean seriously, you'd have the man's masterpiece taken from him, what a fucking douche. If you wanna agree with the troll who started this thread, then get the fuck out already, because obviously none of the regular members around here agree with you. Better yet, keep talking shit so I can ban your ass. Otherwise, as the expression goes, you might wanna stop shitting where you eat.

Man, it's been far too long since I've gotten to incinerate some n00bs, and believe me when I say that the flames of my rage know no bounds. I'm more than content to go "Berserk" on people who ask for it. As I'm sure you can tell, all I need is a reason. Seriously though, you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds. I guess some people are just too stupid to understand that though.

turkey wrote:@Starnum
Wow, you amuse me. I agree quality takes time, say two or three weeks, NOT 4 MONTHS. This story is good, but not near good enough to justify a paltry sum of 20 pages from a 4 month wait. Miura is clearly not working on it. Look at the declining release rate stretching back years. He has no business making the manga if the fool suspends it after every chapter.
Your idiocy is outstanding Starnum.

Also, the quality of the manga itself has also been declining in my opinion and not the artwork, but the story itself. I think many fans will agree with me on this one. Of course I don't expect lunatics like you to agree with me on anything. I also hate to break this one to you, but if you seriously think that Berserk is comparable to LoTR, I really have no business talking to you. I made the suggestion about fantasy novels because it might open your eyes to how average the experience is in reading Berserk.

@Rolos
My assertion that Berserk is of average story telling is based upon me reading other works of fantasy. Now, novels obviously don't give you the visual dynamic that Berserk is able to utilize, but if some of the fantasy novels out there were put into visual form, they would easily top Berserk.
Now, I will say that Miura has a real talent for making manga, but this doesn't excuse him not caring enough to work on it. I never said it was bad or mediocre.

Why would Berserk not be comparable to LOTR? I've read and loved lotr, I'm a fantasy reader in general and I see no particular reason to call Berserk average. Miura has put a LOT of work and time into research, you can see a thread on this very forum that focuses on connections of things from Berserk with those of the real world.

Still, you somehow simply decide to ignore it

You sound as if you didn't know about it, too, cause if you read interviews with Miura you'd know about his approach and also why the delays are there in the first place.

Miura could release faster and we'd all love that, but still I think it's better for him to just take his time and release quality stuff than turn Berserk into Naruto. I prefer bitching about release dates than about shitty chapters.

Also, before another break there are usually a couple of chapters released, not just one. Apart from that - why do you think the quality of the manga is declining?

@silent snake
Well, if you were to disregard the constant suspensions, and just look at the story. It seems like it is starting to get more lighthearted. Now, I must admit I'm kinda stoked for the next installments, but I'm getting tired of the characters, especially some of the antics of Puck and Isidoro. Honestly, if Guts was the only one to walk off this island, I would be most satisfied. Griffith has become a big disappointment, that section with him and the kushan became downright boring. I still think this story could be salvaged as it does have lots of potential, but the constant delays in release prevents that from ever happening as we move ahead at a snails pace. I honestly don't see why Miura even bothers anymore

@ Starnum
I personally don't care about Miura, as I dislike him. I will say it is foolish of me to expect him to have the decency to hand over the manga to someone who can release frequently, but I must voice my frustration over his constant delays. The momentum of the story seems to be constantly at a stand still, as either a result of delays or the shortcomings of his story. I would honestly say it would not be a bad thing if he were to just go ahead, and wrap things up in the next couple of chapters because this manga is becoming tired and exhausting.

I laugh when you say good writing, it isn't that good.

turkey wrote:@silent snake
Well, if you were to disregard the constant suspensions, and just look at the story. It seems like it is starting to get more lighthearted. Now, I must admit I'm kinda stoked for the next installments, but I'm getting tired of the characters, especially some of the antics of Puck and Isidoro. Honestly, if Guts was the only one to walk off this island, I would be most satisfied. Griffith has become a big disappointment, that section with him and the kushan became downright boring. I still think this story could be salvaged as it does have lots of potential, but the constant delays in release prevents that from ever happening as we move ahead at a snails pace. I honestly don't see why Miura even bothers anymore

You know, just because a story doesn't go exactly the way you want it to, or includes characters you don't like, that doesn't make it bad. The fact that you would be satisfied just suddenly removing characters which are now integral to the plot, shows me that you don't really understand how good story telling works. You're not worried about the quality of the story, you just want it to suit your own preferences. Again, thinking only of yourself. Well I'm afraid it doesn't really work that way. When you buy the manga, you're paying for a commodity which you are receiving at the same time. Other than that, Miura doesn't really owe anyone anything. You're getting something each time you pay for it, and that's equal trade. There's no reason he should have to hand over his own creation to anyone. It has nothing to do with decency. If anything it's a matter of the fans such as yourself being ungrateful. As was said before, people are going to be reading this manga long after it's finished. Miura deserves the chance to take his time and do it right. Apparently you'd prefer it to be nothing more than shallow hack and slash though. I mean seriously, how can you call the recent section with Griffith boring, when it was clearly a crucial part of the story. How can we be expected to trust your opinion on the matter or take you seriously when you're saying such an important piece of the plot was boring, and that you'd be happy if the majority of the main cast was just suddenly removed from the story?

turkey wrote:@ Starnum
I personally don't care about Miura, as I dislike him. I will say it is foolish of me to expect him to have the decency to hand over the manga to someone who can release frequently, but I must voice my frustration over his constant delays. The momentum of the story seems to be constantly at a stand still, as either a result of delays or the shortcomings of his story. I would honestly say it would not be a bad thing if he were to just go ahead, and wrap things up in the next couple of chapters because this manga is becoming tired and exhausting.

I laugh when you say good writing, it isn't that good.

Ah, but that's really just a matter of opinion, now isn't it? I could simply argue that you don't know good writing when you see it. There's really no way for either of us to prove the other right or wrong. Though I recommend going back and reading the whole series up to the present, and see just how cohesive and well thought out the story actually is. I think for a lot of people their perception of the manga is distorted by the slow releases. Anyway, the only thing that's getting tired around here is your argument. At this point you're just repeating yourself. I see that you've also carefully ignored the valid points that myself and others have made. Such as the idea that Miura uses the downtime to plan several chapters ahead, which he clearly does as is evident by how consistent the story is. As Silent Snake said, you'd have a better understanding of why there are delays if you actually read some of the interviews with the man himself. He uses that time to research and plan ahead. You don't like the guy though, so you can't be bothered to try to understand where he's coming from, right? I understand, it's just easier to assume he's lazy or doesn't care, without actually doing any research into the issue. According to Miura himself, when asked what he does during the long breaks in between chapters, he basically said that he's constantly working on Berserk with full devotion. He does so even at the risk of his own health, or at least so in the past. But again, I don't really expect you to be considerate of the man's health or well being. It's apparent that you're only able to see things from your own narrow sighted perception. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say you seem to be more worried about being right, than actually considering any of the many valid points which have been made here recently. Even I get frustrated with the long breaks sometimes, but at least I try to be understanding, and give Miura the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't matter what Miura says though, there are plenty of people out there who just can't accept it, even when the information is coming straight from the horse's mouth. So meh, think whatever you like. I don't really care. You've clearly got nothing for me. At least you're not ranting incoherently about the shit. Peace, I'm out!

Miura, Miura, Miura. Who cares about him?
I don't.
I'm not grateful, I'm not dissatisfied, I'm not pissed at him. I simply don't care.
Why?
Because I've attained the Berserker's Nirvana, renounced Entitlement, overcome the insatiable n00b's hunger for more.
I love Berserk as it is, anything else that get published is just a bonus. I don't deserve it, I don't think I'm entitled to more Berserk just because I read it regularly, which makes it all the more awesome when a chapter does get released.
Much like world domination, the ruthless and tyrannical oppression of all the world's countries and peoples under your iron fist of dictatorial terror, and immortality, Berserk is something you want, hope for, even work towards, but ultimately don't deserve.
So if Miura dies, or decides to stop working on Berserk, well, it would suck, but I still wouldn't resent him for that. Hell, I'd welcome the opportunity to try to finish Berserk myself!
Probably not gonna happen, though. Even if that elusive, reclusive, f***able author that is Miura is wasting his time
playing Idol Master, working with children in Africa, raping babies, watching the football word cup, or any other kind of hilarious activities, I'm pretty sure he'll eventually choose to finish something to which he has devoted 20 years of his life.

As for the subjectivity (or, in my opinion, objectivity) of Berserk awesomeness, I'd like to comment that Art is not subjective. Authors have intentions, states of mind, ideas, emotions they want to communicate through their work. If this "work of art" can communicate those to others, then it's good. If not, it's a piece of worthless shit. "Experiencing a work of art" is totally subjective, though, and people tend to confuse the two of them, the "art" and the "artistic experience". A can of beer can elicit the second one, and yet we rarely think of Budweiser as a piece of art.
In short: Art is not subjective. The appreciation of art is subjective. Berserk is art.
Thus, it is only logical that some fuckwads will fail to appreciate Berserk as the masterpiece it objectively truly is.

P.S. For those wondering, yes, I do adhere to the ancient tradition of Insane Troll Logic.

P.S.S Since when has EG needed a reason to ban someone? As Psi used to say, "This isn't the United States of Whatever, this isn't a democracy, there isn't any freedom here. Just me, the benevolent dictator. You can download berserk WITHOUT even having to post, without even creating an account. The squeaky wheel does NOT get the grease here, the squeaky wheel gets replaced. Don't piss me off.".
I'm afraid your light-banhammer isn't what it used to be, Starnum.

I liek big posts.

All around some good points. We should all aspire to Rolos' achieved state of "Berserker's Nirvana". I'll just touch on a few of the points he made.

Rolos wrote:Even if that elusive, reclusive, f***able author that is Miura is wasting his time
playing Idol Master, working with children in Africa, raping babies, watching the football word cup, or any other kind of hilarious activities, I'm pretty sure he'll eventually choose to finish something to which he has devoted 20 years of his life.

Exactly. The man doesn't owe us jack and/or shit. So if he wants to go diddle his balls for four months or whatever, then so be it. Though I seriously doubt he's wasting his time on games like Idol Master. However, if he is, then that's his prerogative. Anything we get from him at this point is basically icing on the cake. If he really didn't care anymore, he could just stop making it, or wrap things up in a hurry. Since he's not doing that, then obviously he does care. Since he's not just giving up on it, which he has every right to do, it makes more sense to think that he's taking his time and being methodical, to ensure that the story comes out just the way he wants it to. Regardless of what we as the fans may want, ultimately it's his vision as the creator that really mattes. Take a note out of Nobuhiro Watsuki's book (The creator of Kenshin) and go watch Busou Renkin. The story turns to shit about half way through. Why? Well that's what happens when you let the fans influence your work too much. We shouldn't expect Miura to toil over Berserk like a slave either. The man deserves to have a life as much as anyone else. So let him live his life, be happy with what you get, and go live your own life in the meantime.

Rolos wrote:P.S.S Since when has EG needed a reason to ban someone? As Psi used to say, "This isn't the United States of Whatever, this isn't a democracy, there isn't any freedom here. Just me, the benevolent dictator. You can download berserk WITHOUT even having to post, without even creating an account. The squeaky wheel does NOT get the grease here, the squeaky wheel gets replaced. Don't piss me off.".
I'm afraid your light-banhammer isn't what it used to be, Starnum.

LOL @ the link.

Unfortunately, I don't actually wield the Ban Hammer. I just call down the thunder from time to time, but I don't like to disturb the powers that be without a valid reason. Otherwise a lot of your asses would've been gone a long time ago.

Sadly, I have a short fuse and a hellish temperament. It's one of my many shortcomings, but at least I admit it.

Troll + Rolos = TRolos ?

Big posts help fill the gap between chapter releases of Berserk.

@Starnum
I don't think the story is bad, but it is no where near as good as you all seem to think. I guess it would be a mistake to remove the characters, but then, who says it wasn't a mistake to add them in the first place. As of now, aside from Guts, this manga offers a poor selection of characters. As of late, I find myself wondering if I am still reading an adult manga. You say that if it went back to its former hack and slash and morbid nature that it would become hollow? The characters are already hollow, with the exception of Guts, and admittedly at previous times a few of the other characters were meaningful.

I call the section with Griffith and the Kushan boring because it was, reincarnated Griffith became uninteresting towards the end of that. Were there any other characters who held you interest during that particular section? The art was nice, yeah, but it was forgetful after about 10 minutes afterward.

I'm just telling you my distaste for what Miura is doing with the manga. If you think this is some kind of legendary story, then you don't know what you're talking about. It is definitely worth reading, though. More importantly, though, is Miura is an average author, nothing extraordinary

That little battle with the pirates is something I'd expect of a childish manga like Naruto. I would have been far more entertained if he killed the retarded human characters, instead of saving them.

Heh, I don't know what I'm talking about? Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that. I think I've already more than proven that I know what I'm talking about far better than you do. Berserk has never been simple hack and slash. It's always had deep and complex undertones, even during its most morbid periods. I'm not surprised you can't see it though. You clearly wouldn't know the makings of a great story if they walked up and kicked you in the balls. Again, whether or not you like the characters, has no bearing on the quality of the story. As I said before, it's evident that you can't see past your own narrow preferences. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that you're out of your league in trying to debate with me. Don't take my word for it though, let our peers be the judge, if you're so inclined to press the matter. All you seem to be able to do is reassert your own opinions, without the slightest regard for making any actual valid or objective points. Though I will admit, the bit with the pirates was a little disappointing. I'm not claiming that Berserk is perfect or infallible, but I do think it's pretty epic. Though that's just my humble opinion.

turkey wrote:I call the section with Griffith and the Kushan boring because it was.

That's the best you've got for me, and it proves absolutely nothing, except your own flimsy opinion. I'm sorry, but I grow tired of this discussion. Your retorts are weaker than you claim Berserk's story components and characterization to be, and lack the intellectual stimulus neccessary to hold my attention. So I'll cut you a break. You go ahead and continue being a stubborn-headed n00b, and I'll go on my merry way as the asshole that I am. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that, what say? Now go read the new Berserk chapter and enjoy yourself. Enough with this pointless argument already. Alrighty then, cheerio.

Turkey wrote:@Starnum
I don't think the story is bad, but it is no where near as good as you all seem to think. I guess it would be a mistake to remove the characters, but then, who says it wasn't a mistake to add them in the first place. As of now, aside from Guts, this manga offers a poor selection of characters. As of late, I find myself wondering if I am still reading an adult manga. You say that if it went back to its former hack and slash and morbid nature that it would become hollow? The characters are already hollow, with the exception of Guts, and admittedly at previous times a few of the other characters were meaningful.

I'm kinda wondering why you think the other characters are hollow. Admittedly none of them have the deep dark past that Guts does, but each of them has been well defined over the course of the story. Maybe you meant that you personally find them uninteresting? That would make more sense. As for them not being meaningful....well, I'll have to disagree with that. There was a part during the troll extermination mission where Guts compared them to his old companions in the Band of the Hawk. In my mind they represent a second chance for him to find peace and happiness, and the main tension for him now is choosing between that and vengeance. So they are pretty important IMO.



Maybe you just read better authors than me, but I would call Miura 9/10 on the author scale.

Farnese is the most developped of Guts' new bandmates with the transition made in the Inquisition story arcs and the change she had to go through when she felt useless in the troll story. Good stuff, I like her character. the others aren't yet as developped as they could be but....whatever.

Meh. This discussion reminds me of something I read on an author's blog a while back, where (in response to a bunch of people whining about when the next Song of Ice and Fire book was coming out) the author pointed out that "George R. R. Martin is not your bitch." Authors (or mangaka) have no obligation to you, the reader. They produce the work they want to produce, when they want to produce it. If what they produce isn't of high enough quality to suit you, or doesn't come out often enough for you, you don't have to buy/read it. That's your right. The only ones the author arguably have an obligation to are the publishers, and if they are still willing to publish Berserk, then apparently they don't have a problem with how often Miura produces new chapters. The entire purpose of this thread seems to be little more than to stroke the egos of a bunch of whiners; well, admitadly there are also other people calling said whiners idiots.

For turkey in particular, I seriously wonder: if Berserk is so mediocre, why do you bother to keep reading it? Seriously. If I thought Berserk was a standard, ok but nothing special story, I'd drop it. The only reason I do continue to read/buy it even though there are frequent 3-4 month breaks, is because I find it to be epic and amazing. If Naruto (for example) pulled something like that I'd have dropped it years ago, because it isn't worth it. If you don't feel that Berserk is worth waiting for, why don't you drop it, and stop bothering those of us who do appreciate it as the masterpiece that it is.

@Starnum
I won't really press the issue unless you really want me too, but I consider the Kushan's downfall aforementioned boring because of one observation, the one character that we have any kinda emotional connection with, except maybe Zodd (though if memory serves he wasn't really engaging in any dialogue, I don't know if he even really made an appearance its been so long), anyways, Griffith is the one character there that would have made it all worthwhile. This events was primarily focused from his point of view and guess what? Was that anything like the Griffith of his reunion in the physical plane with Guts, Rickett, or Caska. Or even the mysterious/dark Femto. See, I get a far different take on him, during that part. This white knight Griffith leading his forces to the onslaught was a bit, how should i put this... shallow. Think about how much dialogue he actually had, right now, I'd have to honestly say he is a pretty weak character. To me he feels like a completely different character than either the dark/conniving Femto or the Band era Griffith. This guy's appearance and actions during this time did not impact me at all, as I felt like I didn't even know this character.

What else was there from that chapter, that you took away? Sure, great artwork. That's all too forgetful. Nah, that is just not the Berserk that I like. I never liked it for its artwork, but the feelings I felt for largely Guts, but also Griffith. I enjoyed the adventures.
Now this grandiose battle of titans is all well in good, except it is has a fundamental flaw: it neglects the character driven story that was what made Berserk so good, in favor of something else.

@Istvan
That was a good post
I remember a couple years back when I picked up Berserk, it was one of the things during my early teens that spurred my interest in fantasy. It's not like I spend a lot of time pondering this shit. I attribute most of my ranting to distaste/frustration over these irritating delays. I of course agree to you that Miura has no obligation to giving us the fans new installments. I don't really blame him, he's been at this shit for 25 years.

And I've read more entertaining things, sure, but Berserk holds a special place in my heart as it was one of the first things in my ongoing stint in reading fantasy. eh, I guess it doesn't really matter, right? It surprises me how well you take these long waits considering some of you are more invested in this than I. I don't really particularly care too much anymore about it, and it still pisses me off considerably.

@MournfulWoods
Yeah, I agree Farnese WAS interesting, until she started acting infantile that is.

@Mail
In recent chapters, i get the impression of them being portrayed in a more comedic light. Take the pirate fight for example; it was not very serious at all. That's something I might expect from a childish manga like Naruto, but not this manga. The characters seem to be digressing in depth, in my opinion at least.
If by bringing up that little part right before they head out from the devastated village, you think that Guts was starting to have flashbacks to his days with the Band, then, yeah. I could see that. If I were him I would be a bit weary of the newcomers tagging along.

I think it is important not to forget that he IS a cold-blooded killer, responsible for the deaths of literally hundreds. IF the others were somehow killed, with the possible exception of Caska, you really think he would lose any sleep over it? I kinda doubt it

turkey wrote:I think it is important not to forget that he IS a cold-blooded killer, responsible for the deaths of literally hundreds. IF the others were somehow killed, with the possible exception of Caska, you really think he would lose any sleep over it? I kinda doubt it

Actually, this is where you're wrong. Very wrong. The quote "My place really was here. I was too foolish and stubborn to notice. But, what I truly hoped for then was here… Why do I always realize it.. When I’ve already lost it…" suggests that he DOES care about the ppl that tagged along and a lot more than you imply. Not to mention Guts' behavior when they were about to lose Farnese and Serpico brought her stuff. I remember clearly Guts saying sth along the lines of "It wouldn't harm to at least tell us why" instead of not giving a fuck. Another no-brainer, from Godo this time: "if you can't replace something, don't wave it around".

If you don't see the difference in Guts' overall behavior then it's no wonder you call the damn thing average

turkey wrote:@Starnum
I won't really press the issue unless you really want me too

No, as I said, I really have no desire to continue our argument at this point. I seriously doubt either one of us is going to sway the other anyway, and I've managed to quell my temper for now, so I'll do my best to keep it civil from this point on. If you do the same.

turkey wrote:@Starnum
but I consider the Kushan's downfall aforementioned boring because of one observation, the one character that we have any kinda emotional connection with, except maybe Zodd (though if memory serves he wasn't really engaging in any dialogue, I don't know if he even really made an appearance its been so long), anyways, Griffith is the one character there that would have made it all worthwhile. This events was primarily focused from his point of view and guess what? Was that anything like the Griffith of his reunion in the physical plane with Guts, Rickett, or Caska. Or even the mysterious/dark Femto. See, I get a far different take on him, during that part. This white knight Griffith leading his forces to the onslaught was a bit, how should i put this... shallow. Think about how much dialogue he actually had, right now, I'd have to honestly say he is a pretty weak character. To me he feels like a completely different character than either the dark/conniving Femto or the Band era Griffith. This guy's appearance and actions during this time did not impact me at all, as I felt like I didn't even know this character.

What else was there from that chapter, that you took away? Sure, great artwork. That's all too forgetful. Nah, that is just not the Berserk that I like. I never liked it for its artwork, but the feelings I felt for largely Guts, but also Griffith. I enjoyed the adventures.
Now this grandiose battle of titans is all well in good, except it is has a fundamental flaw: it neglects the character driven story that was what made Berserk so good, in favor of something else.

Well that's at least a better explanation for why you feel the way you do on that particular subject. I still have to disagree with you though, but at least I have a better understanding of where you're coming from. Even without that much dialog, I still found it to be an interesting section of the story. Ganishka's transformation and the events that followed were especially captivating in my opinion. In manga the art is just as important in the story telling process as the dialog, if not more so, and it was clearly a pivotal turning point in the manga. The mere sight of Ganishka as that towering destroyer blew me away. I have a vivid imagination, and putting myself there, I would've been stunned speechless at beholding such a sight, and would've probably herald it as the coming of the end of days. No, even with the focus solely on just a couple of characters in that section, mainly Griffith and Ganishka, I'm afraid I just can't call that section anything close to boring. Though as always, this is just my personal feelings on the matter.

turkey wrote:And I've read more entertaining things

Oh right, I wanted to ask you about that too. If you think Berserk is so average, or at least become that way, then give us some examples of some other manga that you think are so much better. I would say books too, unless you want to continue to insist that manga can't be compared to books. Anyway, just give us an idea of some of these authors / stories that you think are so much better than Berserk, that you might consider "epic" or "legendary". That way we might have a better understanding of where you're coming from. As Mail said, maybe you do just read better authors than the rest of us, so go ahead and enlighten us a bit. I'm curious as to what you might say, especially as for manga. As for LOTR, it's clearly a classic, but there were several large sections I found to be rather boring. Just as I can be quite verbose myself, there were times in those books that some of the descriptions would get rather long and wordy, just to describe something somewhat tertiary to the story. Still, like with Berserk which also has its moments of sometimes less than desirable sections (like with the pirates, which was at least relatively short), I wouldn't go so far as to discredit the entire body of work over it. So other than LOTR what are some other stories you would put on the pedestal that most of us here place Berserk upon, especially some manga. I read a lot as a kid, but literature aside, in my opinion I definitely feel that Berserk is the greatest manga to-date.

SilentSnake wrote:

turkey wrote:I think it is important not to forget that he IS a cold-blooded killer, responsible for the deaths of literally hundreds. IF the others were somehow killed, with the possible exception of Caska, you really think he would lose any sleep over it? I kinda doubt it

Actually, this is where you're wrong. Very wrong. The quote "My place really was here. I was too foolish and stubborn to notice. But, what I truly hoped for then was here… Why do I always realize it.. When I’ve already lost it…" suggests that he DOES care about the ppl that tagged along and a lot more than you imply. Not to mention Guts' behavior when they were about to lose Farnese and Serpico brought her stuff. I remember clearly Guts saying sth along the lines of "It wouldn't harm to at least tell us why" instead of not giving a fuck. Another no-brainer, from Godo this time: "if you can't replace something, don't wave it around".

If you don't see the difference in Guts' overall behavior then it's no wonder you call the damn thing average

Right, I totally agree with Mail on this one. I don't know why some people dislike the new cast so much. Sure some of them bring some extra comedy or lightheartedness to the story from time to time, which I'm not particularly fond of myself, but as I said before, they're an integral part of the story now. Besides, that kind of thing has always been there with Puck. It's also a sign that possibly Miura himself has grown as a person by venting his inner darkness through the story, and has also become at least a bit more of a lighthearted person. That's not really such a bad thing in my opinion. I've seen it before with other authors as well, such as the creator of Gundam. Anyway, those characters are crucial to the further development of Guts' character, I would think that would be obvious. Just because you don't like the direction Miura is going with these characters, that doesn't necessarily make the writing bad. Personally I enjoy the new characters. They're apart of the story's progression, and they bring different elements to the plot. If the manga had just continued to be about Guts and his search for vengeance, the story would've probably grown stale. I've seen lots of things that were solely based on a man's journey for revenge, and while somewhat entertaining, most of them end up lacking any true depth.

I think I know what turkey's problem is, he only read Berserk once. God damnit, no wonder you think it's declining, you just fucking forgot what everything's about, and because of that fact(probably) you're saying the story is getting hollow?

I don't get you...

Although its a little bit back now (wow this thread has been active, my on my previous statments on books vs anime i will upon reading them and thinking about them, will have to agree with rolos.

and on this subject of turkey it may just be me but this doesn't seem to be an issue of quality of the story, so much as personal taste and it not suiting your personal taste anymore.

i know i found the whole griffith part kind of boreing myself, but thats only because of slow releases, eagerly awaiting what is happening to the main characters that i care about more, and not rereading it all over at one time.

but that said i think it was vital to get the opinion everyone held of griffith and how he is manipulateing people (you mentioned how he acted against your expectations, and felt shallow. i see where you are comeing from but in the sense that is was his act he is putting on for the common people to be viewed as a hero, even thought thats not who or what he is at all, i guess it felt shallow, because he is not being himself)

personally i like the additions to gutt's party, each one has different aspects that lead to growth in gutt's character or each other. althought the fairies are kind of annoying to me now i will admit. in a sense it is kind of like he is the daddy of his own family, he cares, and has to protect them, and i think that is a new feeling for him, and vs much an opposite of his normal "berserk" style of angry revenge without a care of if he dies...he has reasons to stay alive...