Evil Genius

From what I gather, the sacrifices are purely symbolical. So as long as you're willing to sacrifice them, you wish will come true. That would explain why Griffith's abilities don't seem to be held back and why he doesn't care to chase down Guts and Caska.

lon3vvolf wrote:

Frogacuda wrote:Ultimately, Guts will either kill Casca or die defending her. This is too dark of a series to just have a happy ending.

I guess Guts could end up like Skullknight eventually, neither dead nor alive.

Also, they've been travelling to elfhelm so long I've forgotten why they needed to go there in the first place. Can someone refresh my memory?

1. Gutts would never kill Caska. He tore off his own arm for her, so IMHO given the choice between her living and him dying, we'd have a manga without a lead character.

When I said "Ending" I wasn't thinking of the manga continuing after that point. I think the ultimate end of the series could very well be with Guts' death.

2. Very unlikely, as we don't even know how he came to be. Granted all signs point to Gaiserik, we don't know how he became the SK. Was it due to a behelit, sorcery, the God Hand, we can't be sure yet. If it was a behelit or God Hand its almost impossible since he was branded as a sacrifice.

The strong implication seemed to be that he ended up that way because of the very armor that Guts is wearing now. The armor eats away at the wearer and takes a form that represents their inner self. When they found the armor, it looked like a skull. When Guts put it on, it took the form of the beast. Just as Skullknight BECAME the skullknight while wearing the armor, Guts seems to be becoming the Beast.

Remember, the instant Zodd first saw Guts in the cursed armor, he said to Skullknight "Do you intend for him to walk the same path as you." If the armor isn't somehow tied to that, then why would he say that?

Frogacuda wrote:

lon3vvolf wrote:

Frogacuda wrote:Ultimately, Guts will either kill Casca or die defending her. This is too dark of a series to just have a happy ending.

I guess Guts could end up like Skullknight eventually, neither dead nor alive.

Also, they've been travelling to elfhelm so long I've forgotten why they needed to go there in the first place. Can someone refresh my memory?

1. Gutts would never kill Caska. He tore off his own arm for her, so IMHO given the choice between her living and him dying, we'd have a manga without a lead character.

When I said "Ending" I wasn't thinking of the manga continuing after that point. I think the ultimate end of the series could very well be with Guts' death.

2. Very unlikely, as we don't even know how he came to be. Granted all signs point to Gaiserik, we don't know how he became the SK. Was it due to a behelit, sorcery, the God Hand, we can't be sure yet. If it was a behelit or God Hand its almost impossible since he was branded as a sacrifice.

The strong implication seemed to be that he ended up that way because of the very armor that Guts is wearing now. The armor eats away at the wearer and takes a form that represents their inner self. When they found the armor, it looked like a skull. When Guts put it on, it took the form of the beast. Just as Skullknight BECAME the skullknight while wearing the armor, Guts seems to be becoming the Beast.

Remember, the instant Zodd first saw Guts in the cursed armor, he said to Skullknight "Do you intend for him to walk the same path as you." If the armor isn't somehow tied to that, then why would he say that?

Don't know about your Caska death theory. Of course since this is fiction and anything can happen as we have already witnessed with Berserk, I just don't see those things happening. Besides turning the audience on its head, I don't see any reason for Miura to do that as it would pretty much kill the story, and would seriously compromise the time invested in character progression of Guts.

Regarding your last theory, not sure which thread, but the theory of the SK and the armor has been discussed in depth. Many are in agreement that the person who "supposedly blead to death" wearing the armor was Gaelesic himself. Who or what, might have saved or ressurected him into the SK character, assuming this was in fact the case, is still rather a mystery regarding what the readers have had to go with at this time.

One theory is that the origins of the SK may have involve the King of Elfhelm himself, but can't remember the full details behind the theory. But if you recall, the first time Puck comes across the SK while heading towards Albion, Puck mentions that there was something about the SK that reminded him of faeries. A strange observation, considering in the case of the SK, faeries might be the last thing that one might associate him with.

Well I too imagine that by the very end of the series, Guts will probably be dead. I imagine he will have this completely awesome and epic fight against Griffith spanning multiple chapters, and after he finishes Griff for good, he will probably die to all his wounds. Going out in a blaze of glory would be the kind of way to go for him.
The sad thing is, if he still has the brand by that time he will go to hell. But maybe someone had the power to remove it from him and Caska in time? Dunno. Anything could happen.

Aetherfukz wrote:Well I too imagine that by the very end of the series, Guts will probably be dead. I imagine he will have this completely awesome and epic fight against Griffith spanning multiple chapters, and after he finishes Griff for good, he will probably die to all his wounds. Going out in a blaze of glory would be the kind of way to go for him.
The sad thing is, if he still has the brand by that time he will go to hell. But maybe someone had the power to remove it from him and Caska in time? Dunno. Anything could happen.

But maybe in fact Guts is the WhiteHawk, and salvages the souls of all his lost comrades, leaving Corkus behind in the process of course.

The Prince wrote: Regarding your last theory, not sure which thread, but the theory of the SK and the armor has been discussed in depth. Many are in agreement that the person who "supposedly blead to death" wearing the armor was Gaelesic himself. Who or what, might have saved or ressurected him into the SK character, assuming this was in fact the case, is still rather a mystery regarding what the readers have had to go with at this time.

One theory is that the origins of the SK may have involve the King of Elfhelm himself, but can't remember the full details behind the theory. But if you recall, the first time Puck comes across the SK while heading towards Albion, Puck mentions that there was something about the SK that reminded him of faeries. A strange observation, considering in the case of the SK, faeries might be the last thing that one might associate him with.

Yeah thats the thing I still can't wrap my mind around. If he was wearing the armor when he died then shouldn't he still have the armor, or maybe the armor resurrected him or something. Regardless we can't be certain how it happened... Damnit, why can't they just get to the Elf King right now!

Well maybe Flora pulled the armor from the lifeless body of her friend and what lied beneath was not the human she once knew but a full fledged Skull Knight?

Well I believe that Femto is weaker than he would be if Guts and Caska were sacrifeced.... they were the most important comanders of the Hawk, Caska was the one that most believed on Griffith, and Guts, on Griffith words: "among thousands of comarads and ten thousands of enemies, only you, only you(Guts), made me forget my dream. I sacrifice". So considering that the demons power comes from the sacrifices Femto is not as strong as he could be, but there is something more to consider, maybe Femto's power came from the beherit, the Crimson Beherit, and it was his fate to have that power, it would only depend if he choose to sacrife the most important people for him or not.

Aetherfukz wrote:Well I too imagine that by the very end of the series, Guts will probably be dead. I imagine he will have this completely awesome and epic fight against Griffith spanning multiple chapters, and after he finishes Griff for good, he will probably die to all his wounds. Going out in a blaze of glory would be the kind of way to go for him.
The sad thing is, if he still has the brand by that time he will go to hell. But maybe someone had the power to remove it from him and Caska in time? Dunno. Anything could happen.

Maybe if skully kills void, as well...

Thanks for another stunning chapter !!! Awesome.

By the way, aren't there like "sea monsters" hauting them branded when they are on a ship? Or is the brand more or less supressed due to Shierkes "seal drawings" on the brand? (Did anyone notice a seal on Cascas breast?) If they'd be attacked by something, it'll be likely that they'll get problem regarding the crew. Or is Roderick such a charismatic leader, that they won't bother?

Greets

The only thing keeping Guts from being a full on tragic hero is the rule that the story he's in has to be written in sonnet form. But other than that Berserk sure does fit the form of a tragic hero epic. Berserk will probably end the same way. The way the story is set up Guts should die in the last act of the story. Though, I really don't want him to die. Then there are the people who are in his new group. Guts could never be an apostle. Though, he could go through the selfish events where in all of his friends could die.

There's then all of the other characters to look at. At the moment the two most interesting, other than Guts himself, are Roderick and Ishidro. Roderick of course because he's a notical genius, and Ishidro because he has more frames than Guts lately. Neither of them have had their histories described yet either. There's Elfhelm in between that and man is that going to be awesome. Though, there's no telling what it would be like. It could be a paradise, or a wasteland. Though, before this chapter I was wondering where Magnifico had gone. Though, there was that one pic of him being sick a while ago. It must be al of these forums that are making me more interested in other characters than Guts, because he's who is most talked about.

The Herald wrote:The only thing keeping Guts from being a full on tragic hero is the rule that the story he's in has to be written in sonnet form. But other than that Berserk sure does fit the form of a tragic hero epic. Berserk will probably end the same way. The way the story is set up Guts should die in the last act of the story. Though, I really don't want him to die. Then there are the people who are in his new group. Guts could never be an apostle. Though, he could go through the selfish events where in all of his friends could die.

There's then all of the other characters to look at. At the moment the two most interesting, other than Guts himself, are Roderick and Ishidro. Roderick of course because he's a notical genius, and Ishidro because he has more frames than Guts lately. Neither of them have had their histories described yet either. There's Elfhelm in between that and man is that going to be awesome. Though, there's no telling what it would be like. It could be a paradise, or a wasteland. Though, before this chapter I was wondering where Magnifico had gone. Though, there was that one pic of him being sick a while ago. It must be al of these forums that are making me more interested in other characters than Guts, because he's who is most talked about.

I guess this may have something to do with the topic. But in regards to character histories, it would be interesting to see how long Miura continues to keep the reader in the dark regarding an historical account of the Skull Night. Up till now Miura has given the reader little in the way of how and why the SK came to be, and what is his true underlying motivation behind mentoring guts.

I always thought it would be cool if Miura did a "Golden Age"style Arc dedicated to the SK and the events that led him to become the SK. And how those events may have coincided with the ascension of Void and the new Godhand. Although I wouldn't expect Miura to have this flashback anywhere near the depth of the G.A, there still would be a lot of interesting material to work with...........

- I would imagine the arc would first showcase Gaeseric's rise to power and formation of his empire. The reader could get a chance to see firsthand the events that led to the appearance of the 4-Angels of legend, and fall of Gaeserics kingdom. Was there a 1000 yr birthright eclipse near the tower of Rebirth at the time, considering timeline showed this all happening about a 1000 yrs prior to the present story? For what led to the branded skulls and ruins at the bottom of the temple of Rebirth in Wyndham?

- This flashback could also shed light on Voids relationship to Gaeseric, and Voids ascension as a Godhand. Skipping over large segments of time, Miura could then recount those events that would eventually give rise to the SK. And delve into the relationship between SK and Flora.

Damn.....now that I think about it, Miura could probably give the SK his own Manga.

Or course there is the loaming possibility of another eclipse. But who would sacrifice them?

I've always thought it would be awesome if Puck used the behelit. I've always thought he was a very suspicious little bastard.
I really could see Puck being luredby the power of the behelit. That and he has a mysterious past, and thats never good.

tosh wrote:

Or course there is the loaming possibility of another eclipse. But who would sacrifice them?

I've always thought it would be awesome if Puck used the behelit. I've always thought he was a very suspicious little bastard.
I really could see Puck being luredby the power of the behelit. That and he has a mysterious past, and thats never good.

I highly doubt Puck could use the behelit, considering he is already a spiritual being. It's hard to sacrifice your humanity when you're not even human to begin with.

Turd Ferguson wrote:

tosh wrote:

Or course there is the loaming possibility of another eclipse. But who would sacrifice them?

I've always thought it would be awesome if Puck used the behelit. I've always thought he was a very suspicious little bastard.
I really could see Puck being luredby the power of the behelit. That and he has a mysterious past, and thats never good.

I highly doubt Puck could use the behelit, considering he is already a spiritual being. It's hard to sacrifice your humanity when you're not even human to begin with.

Besides which, his entire species seems somewhat anti-evil, and he doesn't appear to have any major dreams to sacrifice everybody for.

Istvan wrote:Besides which, his entire species seems somewhat anti-evil, and he doesn't appear to have any major dreams to sacrifice everybody for.

Yeah, I'd liken it trying to mix water and oil, considering evil spirits can't even enter places where a large number of elves are or have been.

Haha, being a creative writing and theatre costumes double major sure helps to decipher anime. I'm betting that Miura doesn't even want to tackle the whole skull knight backstory because man would that be long and difficult. He has a good 1000 years on Guts. Can you imagine with the way that Miura tells stories how long that would take? And if he did a little blurb, one chapter thing about the Skull Knight then it would be stupid and feel too short because of how he's been writing all along. That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the Ishidro and Roderick back story; they're just people, their backstories are pretty short. Plus Roderick has ten years on Ishidro, so the kid doesn't need any more than one chapter. Roderick maybe two. Roderick really is looking to be an important character because he got Guts to open up. I don't know who the last person to do that was. It was more other people opening up to him. Like Serpico talking about Farnesse being his sister. And when is that going to be resolved? Is Guts going to tell Roderick that then he tell Farnesse or Magnifico? Or is Guts just going to get annoyed or something and blurt it out? I miss the days when he was an idiot. And man, that was only a few years ago. Guts is only 22! He should be allowed to have more stupid moments. Geez, I'm guessing Roderick's older than him. All that not sleeping has made Guts age 50 years.

Well, it's not that Guts is that much smarter, it's just that he hasn't been speaking that much lately, so less opportunities for him to act stupidly. Besides, he seems to want to keep his crew together; talking a lot and suddenly blurting out a personal secret about one of his friends might be something that he could be trying to avoid.

Anyway, it seems weird to me that Guts doesn't talk to anyone about the Band of the Hawks, so it's really interesting to see how he reacts whenever someone mentions the Hawks. That chapter where a noble (if I'm not mistaking) recognizes Guts to be the leader of the raiders was really shocking to me... but he merely muttered something and left. If Magnifico pulls more information out of him, the next few chapters could be very interesting.

You mean Roderick right? Because Magnifico is a bit, how shall I say, lunch meat for an apostle. Anyways, Guts never talked to Magnifico really. Yeah, that was shocking when Guts was confronted by the Midland Lord. I thought something was going to happen for sure. Though, I can imagine him losing his temper if Ishidro blurts out that the Hawks are cool or something.

Oh yeah, it was so funny when Ishidro was yelling because he was next to the cannons during the battle. And about Puck's plan, it's just another goofy Puck thing. Though, I do miss when Puck was barely in his chibi form or whatever it's called. He's so cute and fairylike in his normal form.

Yeah, Roderick, my bad.

Am I forgetting something? I can't remember or find when Serpico actually told Guts about his true lineage, and I've been searching a while through the volumes. As far as I can recall, only Serpico and his father know that Serpico and Farnese are brother and sister. And I can offhand think of only two "opening up" moments between Serpico and Guts; first, the former threatened the latter with death if anything unfortunate happened to Farnese, and the second time was Serpico finally placing faith in Guts. If Serpico's revealed this information to Guts already, please point the way; that moment would make for a fantastic scene between the two characters!

absofflab wrote:Am I forgetting something? I can't remember or find when Serpico actually told Guts about his true lineage, and I've been searching a while through the volumes. As far as I can recall, only Serpico and his father know that Serpico and Farnese are brother and sister. And I can offhand think of only two "opening up" moments between Serpico and Guts; first, the former threatened the latter with death if anything unfortunate happened to Farnese, and the second time was Serpico finally placing faith in Guts. If Serpico's revealed this information to Guts already, please point the way; that moment would make for a fantastic scene between the two characters!

I can't either. But if I come across it I'll let you know.

But its inevitable Farnese is going to find out, and at the worst time as well. Maybe this force Farnese to hate Serpico and sacrifice him up to the Godhand. Because we all know Farnese is kind of nuts, and the irony of her becoming a Devil would be cool...err....horrible.

I really don't see Farnese sacrificing anyone at the moment, because there is almost no suggestion of that happening. She will probably just delve deeper into magic.

GAH! Nevermind me, I was just hallucinating again. I just randomly figured that Guts knew, and I don't know where I got my information from. But, I just seem to remember him looking at Magnifico and Serpico and Farnesse and thinking inwardly 'geez, what a family', like they were ridiculous or something. I can't wait for Serpico to reveal his lineage to Farnesse. I can just imagine him getting short with Magnifico beeing such a boob and yelling, 'I can't believe I'm related to you!' Also, why does Farnesse have to be so obsessed with Guts anyways? Because he didn't take advantage of her when she was possessed? And yeah, he did protect her, but he never, not even once indicate he ever viewd her in a loving or even sexual way. Also, Roderick being the dingbat prince that he is, told Farnesse what Guts told him, that Caska was the most important person to him. Even though Roderick will have a bit of a job taking his foot out of his mouth, he's still a nice guy. Farnesse could be happy with him. Not to mention he's the third in line for the throne of Ys .

Also, why does Farnesse have to be so obsessed with Guts anyways? Because he didn't take advantage of her when she was possessed? And yeah, he did protect her, but he never, not even once indicate he ever viewd her in a loving or even sexual way.

She knows he doesn't see her that way. Why should this alter the way she sees him? Oh, sure, if one could control their feelings, one wouldn't choose to feel for someone who didn't return it, but no one can actually do this.