I'm probably going to stop buying Berserk after vol. 13.

[Femto]

I'm going to break down the previous two chapters because I have nothing better to do at the moment. Keep in mind that I'm not actually reading the whole thing, I'm just working off my memory and by looking at the artwork.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 257: The end of the fight with Serpico, which has been arguably the biggest waste of time in the last few volumes. Compare it to when Guts fights Griffith and the consequences of each match, how the storyline moves in a different direction and how the characters themselves change because of the outcome. Here it's just "hey, we're travelling together, but now let's fight! oh, you beat me, but let's keep travelling together as if nothing had happened!"

Vol. 30 - Chapter 258: Griffith and the new Band of the Hawk. We know very little about them and the relationships between the various characters, so no complaints here.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 259: Giants cats we don't care about attack, people we don't care about die and Guts makes an entrance. That's it.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 260: Guts kills a bunch of cats and everyone is shocked at how powerful Guts is. How many times have we seen this already? It grew tiresome back when he first fought the Troll and the Kelpie. We know he's strong, why do they keep shoving it down our throats?

Vol. 30 - Chapter 261: More cats die, Guts meets an uninteresting character and Farnese uses magic. At the end of the chapter she basically says: "I was feeling nostalgic so I killed 6-10 chapters worth of story, but I'm good now, we can go back to doing the exact same thing we were doing before I left."

Vol. 30 - Chapter 262: Talking, talking, talking. Maybe meaningless talk, I can't remember, I don't know, but Ganishka arrives after a while.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 263: Crocodiles, more cats and Uruk-hai wannabes show up. More talking, Farnese leaves her parents, Roderick and that other dude join and Owen shows up.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 264: Guts meets Owen and the whole deal with the Pope having that vision. Miura is setting up pieces for later on here, so it's alright I guess.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 265: Guts kills some dudes and a giant creature drops by. That's it. Really.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 266: Fighting, fighting, fighting, Guts stabs the creature, more fighting. Not necessarily bad, but the fight itself is meaningless since it's just a creature that appeared out of nowhere with no previous story or background just to get killed.

This shit took too long so I'll stop with chapter 30.

Now I just picked up a random Berserk volume from my shelf. It's volume 7 and I'm just going to flip through the pages and see how much shit I can put in, it's starts somewhere in the middle of when Guts and Caska are hiding by themselves in a cave.

Let's see:

The little boy that died which made Griffith feel guilty.
The fact that Griffith slept with an old man for money.
Some tense moments between Guts and Caska in the cave.
Some guys come by, so Guts and Caska start to move out.
Guts starts the fight with 100 men and lets Caska go ahead.
Caska is saved by Judeau and company.
Guts succeeded in killing 100 mercs but is badly wounded and taken back to camp.
The Bonfire of Dreams which puts the nail on the 360 turn to the relationship between Guts and Caska.
Griffith gets assigned to take Doldrey.
We meet Boscogn and find out that the Emperor Griffith is going up against is the same one he slept with all those years ago.
The big battle starts.
We learn of Caska's assignment for this particular raid.
The volume ends in the middle of the Guts/Boscogn and Caska/Adon fights.

There are no meaningless fights, relationships change, we learn more about the past of certain characters and there are plenty of shockers, good dialogue and great imagery spread throughout.

Just try to compare those two volumes and you'll soon realize that there's just no comparison.

Ah, this is pointless.

Someone lock this thread already so that I may stop wasting time on it.

[psi29a]

no

[fiverings]

Edit for fiverings. you're wrong about Guts not thinking of the hawks as his family. after leaving he saw them for what they were to him, the only family he ever had. this new group is similar, except he doesn't care if they come and go unless he needs them.

i agree with you this, however it seems to me that although he does realize that they are the first family he's had before~ he does it too late. guts realizes this in some fashion and it happens to be right before the hawks die. my point was that guts couldn't figure it out, maybe because he was too dumb or didn't know what a family was. they were just an army to him, more importantly, griffiths army. the hawks were apart of griffiths dream, and guts wanted to separate himself from it. the new party has deeper ties to guts personally than just acting like the hawks. 'you scare me but your on my side so nice^_^' the golden age was a fairytale and guts struggle is berserk.

[Femto]

no

[raziel]

I agree that there has been more development with this new groups and there is somewhat of a development in regards to the story. Still, regarding the new characters, although they had plenty of development more than the Hawks, they lack right now in showing their humanity. With the Hawks, it was easier probably because of their doomed fate. But personally, there were times I forgot about that and was just fascinated at their closeness after they had won a battle. Sure not much character development, but it was more human than comical which this new group seems to be going for.

Even though this group has gone through a lot of character development, does it matter if they're fucking annoying sometimes?

Seriously, with this new party member found in the boat, it's starting to remind me of inuyasha &co. I have a feeling though that Miura might pull a fast one and build this sense of stability up with the party, only to bring it crashing down hitting Guts hard.

Miura, I'm sure has plans and I still am captivated in spite of all that I've said since the story can't go wrong no matter how annoying the characters. It may be true that actual major plot events have yet to occur (i know i'm asking too much but something like Griffith dealing with Ganishka), but once they do Miura won't hold out.

[Femto]

You know when Miura took like a 3 month break?

He needs to do that again, get his shit together, plot out the next 20 volumes of Berserk and start releasing more chapters when he has every little detail ironed out in his little head.

[Arngrim]

I'm going to break down the previous two chapters because I have nothing better to do at the moment. Keep in mind that I'm not actually reading the whole thing, I'm just working off my memory and by looking at the artwork.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 257: The end of the fight with Serpico, which has been arguably the biggest waste of time in the last few volumes. Compare it to when Guts fights Griffith and the consequences of each match, how the storyline moves in a different direction and how the characters themselves change because of the outcome. Here it's just "hey, we're travelling together, but now let's fight! oh, you beat me, but let's keep travelling together as if nothing had happened!"

1)I disagree, waste of your time, not mine and current fans of Berserk. Stop stressing your opinion as global fact.
2)It isn't meant to be compared.
3)What are you talking about? Serpico has shown strong dislike for Guts since first meeting him. Not because he simply "didn't like the guy" but because Farnese is constantly put in harm's way because of her fascination with him. They never fought to the death, that wasn't the purpose. What about Corkus? You rant and rave about how special the golden arc was, and clearly, Corkus wanted to kill Guts at every turn yet they not once got into an actual physical confrontation. Yet they kept fighting together and in the end, Corkus admitted a need for Guts, which further caused further despise.

4)The storyline isn't moving in a different direction. Stop speed reading. If you had read each and every individual chapter of the golden arc per original 2-4 week release, you'd be making just as many complaints, given that it took Miura nearly gee, 10 years to reach the eclipse, and you read it in what, 10 days? 10 weeks? 10 months max? Go figure why you think it's constantly shifting and "declining/lagging". You expect instant gratifaction.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 258: Griffith and the new Band of the Hawk. We know very little about them and the relationships between the various characters, so no complaints here.

Than why talk about it? The Band of The Hawks (original) didn't form a solid pack till the end of the original Golden Arc, thirteen volumes. The new band of the hawk also isn't a primary focus, let alone the inclination of Guts' new brand. It takes -time-. The old wasn't instant, neither will the new be so.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 259: Giants cats we don't care about attack, people we don't care about die and Guts makes an entrance. That's it.

1)your opinion, I liked them.
2)And you cared for every miscelaneous guard and knight the Hawks killed or the conspirators burned alive and ambushed by Guts in the woods? You probably thought it was "interesting", but I doubt I'll hear hear you're thinking about them either.
3)How many times has Guts "just made an entrance"? Countless. It's what he does. I can point out the some odd 20 plus occurances if you really need them when Guts just "appears" during the golden arc. Really, I can. I just hope you realize your irony enough to not make me do so before hand.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 260: Guts kills a bunch of cats and everyone is shocked at how powerful Guts is. How many times have we seen this already? It grew tiresome back when he first fought the Troll and the Kelpie. We know he's strong, why do they keep shoving it down our throats?

How many times did we see it in the golden arc? Griffith was shocked at his strength which gave him that "emotional" scar. If you're referring to repetition, get over it. It happens 1-2 times every gee, FIVE years. It's no big deal, and most people "gasping" are either unfamiliar of Guts or anyone of that strength. It's not like they gasp for 10 volumes about it, one god damn panel isn't going to kill you. Again, -stop-speed-reading. It won't be as noticeable.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 261: More cats die, Guts meets an uninteresting character and Farnese uses magic. At the end of the chapter she basically says: "I was feeling nostalgic so I killed 6-10 chapters worth of story, but I'm good now, we can go back to doing the exact same thing we were doing before I left."

1)More soldiers die in Golden Age chapter 7, again, you probably don't care about them.
2)I don't remember it saying that! In short, your sarcasm fell upon deaf and unreciving ears.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 262: Talking, talking, talking. Maybe meaningless talk, I can't remember, I don't know, but Ganishka arrives after a while.

I recall a lot of talking in volumes 01-13, but I thought you didn't like Guts adding to his kill count either?

Vol. 30 - Chapter 263: Crocodiles, more cats and Uruk-hai wannabes show up. More talking, Farnese leaves her parents, Roderick and that other dude join and Owen shows up.

Well, when you pulled your LOTR whip onto this you lost any merrit of opinion. Try reading up on Indian mythology and other mythos before you spit out more "IT COPIED LOTR" Garbage. Ever bother finding out where lotr got its influence? Didn't think so. If you did, than thanks for just making a hypocritical statement.

Vol. 30 - Chapter 264: Guts meets Owen and the whole deal with the Pope having that vision. Miura is setting up pieces for later on here, so it's alright I guess.

He doesn't need your approval, who does?

Vol. 30 - Chapter 265: Guts kills some dudes and a giant creature drops by. That's it. Really.

Volume 11, Demon Dog 4, Guts kills some dudes and a "Giant creature" drops by, and another one a few chapters later! Just saying, you really loved that golden arc!

Vol. 30 - Chapter 266: Fighting, fighting, fighting, Guts stabs the creature, more fighting. Not necessarily bad, but the fight itself is meaningless since it's just a creature that appeared out of nowhere with no previous story or background just to get killed.

1)As for the fighting, you sure we're reading the same manga? Cause last I checked It's been pretty fucking standard procedure since the prototype in 1988
2)I guess all those apostles in the Eclipse explained where they were about 5 minutes prior!
3)I'm -pretty- sure it's been stated the area is being invaded. They aren't out on a hill with monsters popping up at random

This shit took too long so I'll stop with chapter 30.

For your sake, DO SO!

Now I just picked up a random Berserk volume from my shelf. It's volume 7 and I'm just going to flip through the pages and see how much shit I can put in, it's starts somewhere in the middle of when Guts and Caska are hiding by themselves in a cave.

Let's see:

The little boy that died which made Griffith feel guilty.

He didn't feel guilt, it was his lack of feeling it that made him feel a great void in his emotions.

The fact that Griffith slept with an old man for money.

He did it for a vast war chest, he didn't prostitute himself for a few dollars.

Some tense moments between Guts and Caska in the cave.

I would say Guts losing himself to his inner demons and debating an eternal concept that we may no longer be in love with the same person who once caught our affection and has become a shell of their former self. Sorry, no tense moments after 13. You're right!

Some guys come by, so Guts and Caska start to move out.

Ok?

Guts starts the fight with 100 men and lets Caska go ahead.

He never counted heads. It's just assumed their numbers emassed over 100. And again, how is this any different from the tigers? They are nameless foes all eager to quench his sword with their blood. This was his defnining moment that would label his legendary strength for both the audience and the Hawk.

Caska is saved by Judeau and company.

After she attempts to save herself

Guts succeeded in killing 100 mercs but is badly wounded and taken back to camp.

Again, just like the crazy 88 of kill bill, it is GUESTIMATED. And yes, he gets wounded "Badly" By Donovan, Gambino, Griffith, Zodd, thousands of soldiers and Wild. Common?

The Bonfire of Dreams which puts the nail on the 360 turn to the relationship between Guts and Caska.

I'm skipping the rest, really, you've bothered me enough with your flawed argument. I'll just point out some highlights.
There are no meaningless fights,
Clearly, attacking an invading army of monsters who are going to kill you is pretty meaningless.


"relationships change, we learn more about the past of certain characters"
Given that the golden arc was entirely set in the past? Astonishing!

"and there are plenty of shockers, good dialogue and great imagery spread throughout."
Your opinion, and again, pretty bleak and limited.

Just try to compare those two volumes and you'll soon realize that there's just no comparison.

Ah, this is pointless.

Someone lock this thread already so that I may stop wasting time on it.

I did, and...wow.

[Femto]

Hey.

I'm not reading all that shizzle.

[Arngrim]

Hey.

I'm not reading all that shizzle.

Then I will sum it up , I'm good like that

1)Your views on Berserk are hypocritical and illogical!
2)They are both contradictory and at the same time, unfounded.
3)Completely subject to perspective and opinion.
4)Yours is a -very- narrow view of opinion.
5)You use a "Oh, wow" argument. IE

"Oh, wow. That guy just shot a big bazooka at a T-Rex....lame."


and then glorify the mundane,
"HOLY SHIT, THAT DUDE, WOW, HE'S LIKE, TOTALLY IN HIS BED...AND...SLEEPING..HOT DAMN, THIS IS THE BEST ACTION I'VE EVER SEEN!"

Anybody can take a point and make it look uninteresting. You, like 99% of other "manga" fans this age can't appreciate a work you spent all 5 days downloading off the internet and reading in a week. Instead of realizing Berserk takes time and effort, it's something epic and massive. It's that simple, you can't handle the time lag and totally missed the point of the manga by focusing on its biggest catalyst. For all you know, there could be another eclipse moment 5 years down the road. For some fans, the Tower proved that. For you, well, eh?!

[Femto]

Hey.

I'm not reading all that shizzle.

Then I will sum it up , I'm good like that

1)Your views on Berserk are hypocritical and illogical!
2)They are both contradictory and at the same time, unfounded.
3)Completely subject to perspective and opinion.
4)Yours is a -very- narrow view of opinion.
5)You use a "Oh, wow" argument. IE

"Oh, wow. That guy just shot a big bazooka at a T-Rex....lame."


and then glorify the mundane,
"HOLY SHIT, THAT DUDE, WOW, HE'S LIKE, TOTALLY IN HIS BED...AND...SLEEPING..HOT DAMN, THIS IS THE BEST ACTION I'VE EVER SEEN!"

Anybody can take a point and make it look uninteresting. You, like 99% of other "manga" fans this age can't appreciate a work you spent all 5 days downloading off the internet and reading in a week. Instead of realizing Berserk takes time and effort, it's something epic and massive. It's that simple, you can't handle the time lag and totally missed the point of the manga by focusing on its biggest catalyst. For all you know, there could be another eclipse moment 5 years down the road. For some fans, the Tower proved that. For you, well, eh?!

OK!

PS: I watched the TV series before I read the manga. I bought the first DVD when it first came out and had to wait months for every subsequent release.

But hey, nice job at assuming a bunch of shit about me!

[Arngrim]

OK!

PS: I watched the TV series before I read the manga. I bought the first DVD when it first came out and had to wait months for every subsequent release.

But hey, nice job at assuming a bunch of shit about me!

How did I assume anything about you, let alone it being wrong? You just proved my point. You watched 25 episodes, most likely not in years time, then re-read the manga, further focusing on the same point with a less time span, then you read 200+ chapters of an advancing story, most likely not over a 10 year plus time span!

Or am I missing something?

[Femto]

Or am I missing something?

Oh yes you are, buddy!

Read a little closer and breathe a little deeper.

Come back to me after that.

[MrFelony]

femto, do you really want me to tell you why i think what you believe is unimportant is actually important for developing the plot? if you do i'll write the post, but not unless you'll actually read it

[Femto]

femto, do you really want me to tell you why i think what you believe is unimportant is actually important for developing the plot? if you do i'll write the post, but not unless you'll actually read it

I'll read it just because you asked so nicely, sweetie.

Don't blame if I stop reading it because it didn't hold my interest though.

And I'll tell you right now that you're probably wrong.

[Arngrim]

Or am I missing something?

Oh yes you are, buddy!

Read a little closer and breathe a little deeper.

Come back to me after that.

I'm still coming back to square one. You watched the anime, looked up the manga, downloaded it, and are only going to buy the shit you spent your 5 second attention span on. I Could be right though.

[Femto]

I'm still coming back to square one. You watched the anime, looked up the manga, downloaded it, and are only going to buy the shit you spent your 5 second attention span on. I Could be right though.

No, but keep trying!

[Arngrim]

Ok, you asked for it, buddy!

OK!

PS: I watched the TV series before I read the manga.

Right there. Straight from your fingertips to the god damn keyboard. You watched the anime by OLM, the 25 series compliation, before reading the manga. The anime series was created in 1997, nearly -nine- years after the initial release of Berserk and aired from that fall/winter to early 1998. So at Best, you are familiar with the soure (assuming you lived in Japan, watched the episodes at your home) for 10 years. So you didn't start reading the manga till -at least- 1998. OR...
TIME PARADOX

I bought the first DVD when it first came out and had to wait months for every subsequent release.

The ONLY part I could make a false assumption on, is that you did not in fact wait for the region 2 release (which would AT LEAST be circa 1999/2000 as the wave of DVD had not yet reached outdated anime). And the American Release wasn't until a little after (to my recollection, which COULD be wrong) 2002-2003. NOW ASSUMING YOU ARE AMERICAN AND REFERENCING REGION 1 DISTRIBUTION, this would mean that you at BEST are familair with Berserk for 3 to 4 years. Meaning, at best, you probably went and read the entire manga in "GASP" 3-4 years!


But according to you, I'm missing something.

[MrFelony]

well i'll sum it up for you.

before in Berserk we have been led to believe that time flows in a spiral, not repeating itself exactly but following close pathes. honestily i can't back this up with more than memory, but right now i believe Muira is preparing us for some sort of eclipse like incident to happen with guts. I dont necesarilly mean an eclipse but some really bad shit is going to go down.

so the reason why a lot of these things that are happening are important are not just because they help develope the relationship between guts and his companions, but because they further show how guts is following a path similar to griffths.

chapter 257:
as for the farnese incident. that is dramatically important because its NOT about her running off to help the group out, it is about guts realising that he NEEDS her and has to fight for her like griffith did for guts.

and as for my "guts is following the same path as griffith" crazy theory, i really do need to get all the volumes together so i can find out how plausible it is. i know im looking for things that may not be there so i find them anyway. eitherway do your crazy smiley again femto

ps i accidentally spelled your name femtor...i think i like it more. and i got real lazy on this post lol. either way i see this as just the hand of idea leading them along

edit: i also have a question for you two. you know when you see a V of geese flying in the sky, why is it that sometimes on side is longer than the other?

[Arngrim]

well i'll sum it up for you.

before in Berserk we have been led to believe that time flows in a spiral, not repeating itself exactly but following close pathes. honestily i can't back this up with more than memory, but right now i believe Muira is preparing us for some sort of eclipse like incident to happen with guts. I dont necesarilly mean an eclipse but some really bad shit is going to go down.

so the reason why a lot of these things that are happening are important are not just because they help develope the relationship between guts and his companions, but because they further show how guts is following a path similar to griffths.

chapter 257:
as for the farnese incident. that is dramatically important because its NOT about her running off to help the group out, it is about guts realising that he NEEDS her and has to fight for her like griffith did for guts.

I don't know if I would say he did it in a manner to Griffith (Farnese leaving was more explained/free willed) It wasn't Guts denying that he didn't need her so much as realizing she did have a use (Versus just being a tag along) and this is focused on his inability to care for Casca (he reflects onto a "What if it goes back to that?" moment) and realizes she was a godsend and was a fool to "let her walk away" thus he makes a more prominant intervention to save his babysitter "friend".

[Crono454]

Arngrim, I'm with you on this one buddy.
Perhaps try to be a little less brash next time though.

I can't say I'm not disappointed with how slowly new material is arriving, but I don't think Gattsu's situation with the armor has not evolved. His last transformation while fighting alongside Zodd was quite telling indeed.

Unfortunately I am somewhat disappointed with Chapter 279...it is short as hell, and not a single frame of Gattsu...

[Femto]

before in Berserk we have been led to believe that time flows in a spiral, not repeating itself exactly but following close pathes. honestily i can't back this up with more than memory, but right now i believe Muira is preparing us for some sort of eclipse like incident to happen with guts. I dont necesarilly mean an eclipse but some really bad shit is going to go down.

That's certainly possible, but it doesn't explain why the storytelling has been so poor lately.

As for Farnese well, as I recall, Guts asked her if she wanted to stay or not and I'm sure he would've respected her decision. What it really comes down to is this: "I'm going back to my family... Actually, I think I'll go back with you guys now!" Aside from those two guys that are now following the main cast, that whole encounter had very little impact in the story.

Arngrim: Keep trying!!!

[Crono454]

That's certainly possible, but it doesn't explain why the storytelling has been so poor lately.

As for Farnese well, as I recall, Guts asked her if she wanted to stay or not and I'm sure he would've respected her decision. What it really comes down to is this: "I'm going back to my family... Actually, I think I'll go back with you guys now!" Aside from those two guys that are now following the main cast, that whole encounter had very little impact in the story.

It is a bit extreme to say the story telling has been poor.
Your simplification of the events that transpired with Farnese are kind of whacked as well. I mean, don't you think it is nice to see Gattsu caring about whether someone other than his own ass again?

[Arngrim]

That's certainly possible, but it doesn't explain why the storytelling has been so poor lately.

Your opinion, it's still as strong as day one to a lot of actual fans.

"I'm going back to my family... Actually, I think I'll go back with you guys now!"

totally miss something like "doubt" and "pressure" being possible influences of a character. We're all two dimensional here, your three dimensions are shit!

Aside from those two guys that are now following the main cast, that whole encounter had very little impact in the story.

Pippin had very little main impact on the story when compared to the likes of Serpico, Farnese and well, basically everybody with Guts right now. Same with the rest of the original Hawks, and their presence ranged from strong to limited depending on Guts/Griffith/Casca's spotlight.

Arngrim: Keep trying!!!

I see no reason to, I've completely disected you and last I checked, nobody's putting you back together. Feel free to TRY YOURSELF!

[Femto]

I mean, don't you think it is nice to see Gattsu caring about whether someone other than his own ass again?

But he's always cared about Caska, even when they were not on friendly terms.

And yes, not poor but not really good either.

To me, it's just like any other manga/anime out there right now.

Arngrim: No, no, no.

And you were so close too!

[MrFelony]

I don't know if I would say he did it in a manner to Griffith (Farnese leaving was more explained/free willed) It wasn't Guts denying that he didn't need her so much as realizing she did have a use (Versus just being a tag along) and this is focused on his inability to care for Casca (he reflects onto a "What if it goes back to that?" moment) and realizes she was a godsend and was a fool to "let her walk away" thus he makes a more prominant intervention to save his babysitter "friend".

I believe that the whole reason for all these tag alongs is just so he can sacrifice them later. so whats the point of getting attached to them ? Guts needs farnese like Griffith needed guts. im confusing myself on my own crazy theories