I'm probably going to stop buying Berserk after vol. 13.

[Starnum]

The new crew will NEVER be liked as much as the old crew, EVER.

Um, I like the new cast more. I mean, except for Judeau. Casca and rickert are still around, but I like the new guys more than Corkus, Pippin, and um, Gaston...yeah. Although Gaston was pretty cool too.

[the40thieves]

Okay, okay... I was guilty of overgeneralizing there . However, I do think its fair to say in a completely speculative manner, that for a significant number of people, you can't replace the original crew regardlees of there short comings development wise.

Of all the old crew, Judeau was the only one fairly developed. The others were very one dimensional ((and I know Rickert is still around)), but I feel their waning moments and final struggles really brought alot of life to them.

[Femto]

I just flipped through the last few volumes and found out that it hasn't actually been that many chapters since they left the beach.

I thought it was like 4-6 volumes, but it's only been a couple.

So yeah, getting one chapter every month definitely affects the pacing of the story.

Don't get me wrong, everything I've said stands, it's just not that bad.

I still won't be buying any volumes past the 13th though.

[MrFelony]

this is a lot like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. i think we should all just take a 3-4 month sabatical from berserk and then read it

[dstructor]

I'm sorry, but the difference in quality between the first 13 volumes and the rest is just abysmal.

The only thing that was really great in post-13 volumes is the Griffith/Guts encounter in the Grave of the Hawks (I forgot if that's the actual name) and the subsequent fight with Zodd.

Everything else has been mostly unfocused and uninteresting.

I download the series out of habit really because it's just not what it used to be.

Also, I'm running out of shelf space.

r u kiddin me ?!!!, dats when all the juice starts, when the Berserker in gatts awakes and takes vengence for the fallen comerades and traitor.


lol not very gud wit poetry but u get wat i'm sayin

[MrFelony]

r u blizzack?

nice first post lol

[psi29a]

I'm sorry, but the difference in quality between the first 13 volumes and the rest is just abysmal.

The only thing that was really great in post-13 volumes is the Griffith/Guts encounter in the Grave of the Hawks (I forgot if that's the actual name) and the subsequent fight with Zodd.

Everything else has been mostly unfocused and uninteresting.

I download the series out of habit really because it's just not what it used to be.

Also, I'm running out of shelf space.

r u kiddin me ?!!!, dats when all the juice starts, when the Berserker in gatts awakes and takes vengence for the fallen comerades and traitor.


lol not very gud wit poetry but u get wat i'm sayin

No one will take you seriously until you actually type seriously.

[Tempest]

r u kiddin me ?!!!, dats when all the juice starts, when the Berserker in gatts awakes and takes vengence for the fallen comerades and traitor.


lol not very gud wit poetry but u get wat i'm sayin

[Dagda Mor]

[LordMune]

This thread reminds me that I'm probably going to stop buying Femto's services sometime soon. His endurance is inferior to Buz's, and he overcharges.

this is a lot like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

... The first three volumes were awesome but after that it's been steadily degenerating to a sub-sub-sub-plot-ridden fantasy-political mess?

[Istvan]

Sorry, this series is by far superior to Robert Jordan's. The Wheel of Time was never all that good, only a little better then mediocre, and it has steadily deteriorated since.

[MrFelony]

was only comparing the length of time it's taking to get them out . i loved the early ones but yes, its really deteriorating

[J2 Cool]

I've talked about the series downward spiral before.

It's not really the tone in the book that's the problem, it's the complete lack of character and story development.

I see little signs of potential greatness every once in a while, only to be let down soon afterwards.

We're reading about so many fights here and there that have no impact on the story whatsoever. I'd like to think that it's leadind up to something, but it's dragged for too long and has become to generic for me to even worry about what that "something" is.

It's nice to see Guts and Zodd team up, but what's the purpose behind that? Why is that important to the story besides the "OMG that's so cool" factor? I personally thought it was kinda silly anyway.

The new characters have added nothing to the story.

All they do is stand around and explain every single thing that is going on with lots of exclamation marks in between.

I could go on and on.

Someone said I'm not a fan, but there's a big difference between a fan and a fanboy.

I love Berserk, but only the first 13 volumes.

The majority of the series after that is merely average and I'm not buying into it just because it's called Berserk.

I can see myself giving up completely on it by the end of the year.

Maybe not.

I often times wonder if they did an anime of post-volume 13 Berserk, would it maintain the original's greatness? Does it just seem slow because the chapters release so slow. Would 25 minutes of story followed by another make this arc more satisfying.. And.. I'm not sure. I agree, the Grave of the Hawks was the pinnacle of the post-eclipse. Everything else past that volume has been very Dragonball Z-ish, as in who would win this crazy fight. And they devote dozens of chapters to them. In fact, it's very hard to sum up what happened between volume 23 and where we are now. A lot of nothing really.

I understand Miura wanted to make the longest running manga and such, but that was never where the series strength lied. From the first 26 episodes of the anime, it was as strong as anything else out there and not due to length in the least. It was meaningful, well developed, well paced, and important in every scene. Effecient really. Insane fights worked into deeper character motives and illustrated character traits and relationships. Like how Guts and Griffith felt about each other on the battlefield, or how Casca and Guts felt about each other. With the series now, it seems like they fight and then keep walking. Sometimes they show unity, but nothing like the companionship of the hawks, so easily relatable and entertaining. It feels more like an RPG party than anything sincerely relatable. With a few moments tossed in for the sake of considering character development.

When the group goes away on a ship, I simply watch them go away. When the hawks walk away to a battlefield together, I feel like I need to go with them to see what they do next. And when they died in the eclipse, I felt like my guys were being slain. The impact couldn't touch that if the current group were to be caught in an eclipse for mudrlg. I simply wouldn't care enough to feel the way I felt then.

As far as Berserk goes though, I still consider it the best anime I've ever seen. I keep reading in hopes that it can rise to some type of level like that again. I stick with Miura's aim at creating the longest manga simply for being there when he hits the essential points he planned from the start. That's currently how I feel about Berserk. But it's nearly torture to go through such few chapters and so far between. I wish they'd release it weekly with two week vacations, instead of the 2 and 4. The only thing the attempted longest manga ever needs is a slow pace of release. If I only held the original series in a lesser light, like 2nd favorite ever, I wouldn't hang around. As is though, I feel like I have no choice.

[Crono454]

I can't say I agree with you Femto.

I really have enjoyed the charater development thus far and it would appear as though a large event is on the horizon for Volume 32.

I really enjoyed the chapters in the 20's because they served to explore the spirtitual realm of Berserk, and truly deepen the universe and have done so with a very interesting style and plot line.

I also find the new group quite compelling. Farnese, Schierke, and Serpico are much deeper and fully thought out characters compared to the old group. They all have their past and their reasons, and you know their thoughts and their feelings. This group is the developed and intimate one, where as the previous group outside of Griffith and Gattsu himself were sorely under developed.

I can honestly say I feel more and MORE compelled by Berserk, and do not believe it has become simpler, but only more complex. I feel that you guys are adding depth to things that truly had none, and you all just seem to want the interaction between Gattsu and Griffith on friendly terms again.

I know it is hard to see two great friends(lovers?) split, but seriously, it is a much more interesting story this way, and the character and universe depth of Berserk has increased some ten fold.

[FightClub]

*comes out of the shadows*

You know, I slightly agree with Mr. Femto (god forbid) I enjoyed the volumes before the berserk armor was added, than those later. To me the manga has become more of a disinteresting blur than anything, everything that made Gutts mortal, and tangible has been destroyed. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy reading it, just not as much as I previously did. I don't debate the reasoning for the series tilting to where it has, but I do dislike all of the acquired third wheels that take away from his character, in hopes to restore some humorous nature to the manga, they do that, but in their own they take away from it. That said, Mr. Femto I live Berserk wherever it goes, up or down, it's the first and only Manga I've ever enjoyed, I'll continue to read it regardless of what it becomes. But yeah there's my piece.

*waves*

[MrFelony]

you have been bumped up several notches on my favorite members list

[Crono454]

Say what you will about it being disinteresting, but I don't think anyone can argue that he hasn't used the chapters leading up to the Berserker Armor(which is like Volume 27, that is very recent events there) to explain the depth and significance of the spiritual realms of Berserk. I also thought these chapters show a lot about more about the characters that have recently joined him, and we've gotten to know more about these guys than we ever knew about the whole Hawk.

Disinteresting? If you say so.
More shallow, less complex, nothing going on? No way.

Those of you complaining that it has devolved from telling a great story and into something that is just checking out fights are fairly shortsighted because if anything, there is more character development than ever, and the only thing MISSING would be the grand fights of the earlier chapters, huge battles in the fields.

It is sad that many seem to have lost interest, however, I think the evidence that you justify your disinterest with is truly lacking. It is almost as if the OPPOSITE of what you put forth is true for what is really happening in the storyline.

I know nothing I say will make you somehow have interest in what you don't like, but I think it would be wise to re-think what you like about manga and anime. It would seem that you're not sure what you like, because what you dislike isn't exactly the case.

[psi29a]

Those of you complaining that it has devolved from telling a great story and into something that is just checking out fights are fairly shortsighted because if anything, there is more character development than ever, and the only thing MISSING would be the grand fights of the earlier chapters, huge battles in the fields.

be careful what you wish for *grin*.

279 spoiler

[Femto]

It would seem that you're not sure what you like, because what you dislike isn't exactly the case.

Hahahaha.

What does that even mean?

You write a fairly compelling argument though.

Still, can you tell me something that has happened in the last couple of volumes that has advanced the story in any way?

They group is still trying to reach Elfhelm, Guts situation with the armor has not improved, the cast has not developed at all, we still know little of Griffith's side of the story, Zodd came and left and all that amounted to nothing, Ganishka is still alive, etc, etc, etc.

Despite some cool bits here and there, the story seems a lot more unfocused ever since Griffith came back.

[Istvan]

Still, can you tell me something that has happened in the last couple of volumes that has advanced the story in any way?

They group is still trying to reach Elfhelm, Guts situation with the armor has not improved, the cast has not developed at all, we still know little of Griffith's side of the story, Zodd came and left and all that amounted to nothing, Ganishka is still alive, etc, etc, etc.

Despite some cool bits here and there, the story seems a lot more unfocused ever since Griffith came back.

Um, yes, I can. Let's see, taking your points in order, the group is now on the boat to Elfhiem, and so are closer to that goal (I wouldn't be surprised if the next time we see them for more then a page or two is when they're arriving). Next, over the last few chapters, Guts control over the armor has improved significantly. Yes, he may still need Schierkes help, but the fact that her spirit can control the armor, and even cast spells through Guts, is a huge development. Farnese and Serpico both had quite a bit of character development (that in large part was what her temporary return to the world of the nobles was about) and even Schierk has had some, added to the fact that it appears the party may increase again with that knight who was sleeping on the boat. Based on the spoilers, it appears that Griffith's side of the story is what we're about to start focussing on, so that complaint is somewhat premature, and Zodd coming in (along with the other Apostles) was very significant because it allowed Griffith to set himself up as a hero in front of the entire allied command by "saving" the city from the Kushans. Last, while Ganshika is, indeed, alive, knowing that Guts sword can injure/kill him is very important, and gives us a clue as to how he may be killed in the end, which before we had no idea about. So, on balance I have to agree with Crono454, you may be loosing interest in the story, and that's entirely your business as a matter of personal taste, but your reason's as to why you're loosing interest don't really seem all that well thought out or accurate.

[fiverings]

Um, yes, I can. Let's see, taking your points in order, the group is now on the boat to Elfhiem, and so are closer to that goal (I wouldn't be surprised if the next time we see them for more then a page or two is when they're arriving). Next, over the last few chapters, Guts control over the armor has improved significantly. Yes, he may still need Schierkes help, but the fact that her spirit can control the armor, and even cast spells through Guts, is a huge development. Farnese and Serpico both had quite a bit of character development (that in large part was what her temporary return to the world of the nobles was about) and even Schierk has had some, added to the fact that it appears the party may increase again with that knight who was sleeping on the boat. Based on the spoilers, it appears that Griffith's side of the story is what we're about to start focussing on, so that complaint is somewhat premature, and Zodd coming in (along with the other Apostles) was very significant because it allowed Griffith to set himself up as a hero in front of the entire allied command by "saving" the city from the Kushans. Last, while Ganshika is, indeed, alive, knowing that Guts sword can injure/kill him is very important, and gives us a clue as to how he may be killed in the end, which before we had no idea about. So, on balance I have to agree with Crono454, you may be loosing interest in the story, and that's entirely your business as a matter of personal taste, but your reason's as to why you're loosing interest don't really seem all that well thought out or accurate.

yeah. thats what i was going to say. guts relationship with Schierke and his new group outweighs the old hawks. why do you people think guts left the hawks in the first place~ it doesnt seem like he's going to leave the group he has now. the hawks to guts was just an army. his group now is a family. they support each other and rely on one another. the hawks were just sacrifices for griffith. there is a much deeper bond with his new group and this makes berserk much better. the golden age was just that. a shiny time of the characters lifes when things were so much more easy. i guess some of you like it like that.

[MrFelony]

For Guts' personal developement, anyone who didnt see a profound maturation in guts during his confratation with Zodd missed a lot. Like when griffith risked his own life in an attempt to save Guts, Guts is spiraling down a path ignoring his prior dream/goal to kill griffith/femto to be with casca. Whether or not I'm correct in my "crazy" theory that casca is going to reject being with guts (just like guts did to griffith) and that this will cause Guts to go crazy...its still a pretty big developement in his commitment to heal and be with casca. honestly i can't remember whats happened 3 volumes ago lol. that's like so long ago lol

Edit for fiverings. you're wrong about Guts not thinking of the hawks as his family. after leaving he saw them for what they were to him, the only family he ever had. this new group is similar, except he doesn't care if they come and go unless he needs them. as of now he needs them because he can't take care of casca alone, much like a general (griffith cough cough lol) cant win a war (let alone take a kingdom) on his own. IMHO guts is no different than griffith was.

[Starnum]

It would seem that you're not sure what you like, because what you dislike isn't exactly the case.

Hahahaha.

What does that even mean?

You write a fairly compelling argument though.

Still, can you tell me something that has happened in the last couple of volumes that has advanced the story in any way?

They group is still trying to reach Elfhelm, Guts situation with the armor has not improved, the cast has not developed at all, we still know little of Griffith's side of the story, Zodd came and left and all that amounted to nothing, Ganishka is still alive, etc, etc, etc.

Despite some cool bits here and there, the story seems a lot more unfocused ever since Griffith came back.

Have you not been paying attention? Thankfully Crono already explained most of it, so I don't need to elaborate any further. However, there has been development in almost every area you mentioned. They are closer to reaching Elfhelm. Gatts situation with the armor has improved. There was all that stuff about Farnese and Serpico when Farnese was thinking about getting married, plus there was the stuff with Griffith recruiting the pope. Plus there was some other stuff too. I think you're just selectively reading the manga, with negative intentions at this point. *shrugs*

[ddem1]

Grunbeld turning into a fucking dragon is enough reason to buy the volumes

[MrFelony]

and thats why ddem1 is my favorite member of this forum