Berserk Chapter: 278

Post by **Phoenix** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:25 pm

He said that Gutts rightfully belonged to them because he was branded. He was their property.

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:27 pm

Good call but I just reread the chapter and the apostle first recognized him as the Blackswordsman. And by this time its common knowledge to all of them who he is (the branded one I mean). it didn't seem at all he was just auto-attracted to him. He just knew that he was branded because of the title...

And of course he has the brand so they want to eat him because the brand marks him as food for them...

Post by **Phoenix** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Yeah, but what's confusing is what sets him apart? Does he somehow taste better than no-branded humans? Yay, he has a brand, big whoop, most demons have no problem eating non-branded humans, so what the hell is this obsession with Gutts?

You know what, I think he does taste better -_-

Post by **Gattsblackfalcon** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:32 pm

so he didn't feel auto-attracted because the brand it was for the Blackswordsman name , then the brand only attracts lesser demons ?.

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:36 pm

The brand seems to attract only the lesser ghosties as the apostles don't seem to care usually. Except for one exception, the little guy that came to Godo 's place when Guts finds the Dragonslayer. This may be because most other apostles seem to have their own agenda's and the little guy looked like a Hobo on the side of the road.

And Guts is set apart because of his strength...."He will make a beautiful sacrifice" -- Slan. That may have something to do with it. And plus he's the Blackswordsman so all the Neo Hawks should know who he is and if Griffith has talked then they will know their history and know that he is a mortal enemy of their leader. If Griffith hasn't then Zodd should be the only one who knows the relationship.

EDIT: His strength, rage, pain....etc...

Post by **Phoenix** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:39 pm

And Guts is set apart because of his strength...."He will make a beautiful sacrifice" -- Slan. That may have something to do with it. And plus he's the Blackswordsman so all the Neo Hawks should know who he is and if Griffith has talked then they will know their history and know that he is a mortal enemy of their leader. If Griffith hasn't then Zodd should be the only one who knows the relationship.

So I was kinda right XD All of his emotions and whatnot make him a more delectable meal for the apostles, neh?

Post by **Gattsblackfalcon** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:45 pm

yeah but only Slan say those kind of things , not Void or the other two Godhands ( i forgot his names ) so maybe she is the only that wants to kill Gatts ( she is the only GH that had fight Gatts ) .

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:45 pm

Delectable yes...detectable from a far...maybe.... ^_^ Fun discussion! I ran out of things to talk about though... -_-"

EDIT: Fight him?!?!?! LMAO She wants to rape the shit out of him!!!

Post by **MrFelony** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:17 pm

i think the frist apostle guts fought after the eclipse had the ability to smell left overs, because he is the only apostle that i remember that could track them down. the rest had to see his brand or realize who he was

Post by **Phoenix** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:23 pm

Didn't the Count figure it out while being in the same room with Gutts? It's not like he tracked him down... then again, my memory's a bit sketchy.

Post by **MrFelony** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:31 pm

after the count chopped the head off of a "heretic" guts threw the head at the count with an imprint of the brand in blood on the neck letting the count know he was there

Post by **Phoenix** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:38 pm

Eh, see? He can't detect him in any way. It's just once they realize it, it's like finding a hidden slice of pizza in your fridge.

Post by **MrFelony** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:42 pm

so you agree with me lol...i think we belabored that point enough

Post by **Istvan** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:37 pm

It might also just be a case of fixing the mistake. All of the Apostles get together to kill the branded ones during the ceremony, so having one escape might just be embarressing, and they want to fix the mistake if they come across him.

Seriously, know one wants to go the maelstrom. Hm, interesting, does it say somewhere that the brand grants him the ability to take more damage, and increases his strength, because I think those are just some of his natural abilities. I mean, look at the beating he took from Wylde prior to the eclipse. I can't really imagine it having any positive effects, which at least extra strength would be. The fact that it burns with pain and bleeds in the presence of monsters is a side-effect, which Gatts just uses to his advantage. Nifty form of adaptability, but not meant to be a positive trait, I'm sure.

It's not that the brand is intended to have any positive aspects, of course. As azn_l10n said, the increased strength is just a side effect of being half in the astral world all of the time. As for the increased damage, that's more or less speculation on my part. Along the way a lot of Apostles have made comments about how a human would have died from such damage, or no human could have survived that, or "if you were just a human you'd be dead now", or whatever. This could just be Guts having incredible tenacity, but it could also be the brand slightly increasing his durability. This would actually make a certain amount of sense, since the whole point of the ceremony is to torture the sacrifices to death, it wouldn't be that odd to slightly increase how much damage (and thus pain) they can take before dieing. And given the situation they're branded under, it's not as if the increased durability ought to save them, or anything. I could be totally mistaking what Miura meant by those comments, but that was my interpretation, anyway.

Post by **Starnum** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:19 am

I don’t know, unless I see proof in the manga, I’m going to continue to assume it’s Gatts’ own ability. I mean, he was already pretty incredible before the eclipse. The fight with Wylde was pretty impressive. He had already gone beyond human limitations at that point, and I’m sure he’s only continued to push his potential since then. I mean, that’s what he, and any great warrior does, continue to get better. It’s a manga after all, he doesn’t necessarily need a special situation to have super human abilities. Oh, and the eclipse is referred to as a great feast. Sacrifices are meant to be devoured. I don’t remember anything specific about torturing them to death. Although, they can do that too, if they want. Not that it’s a bad theory though.

As for the brand, we’ve seen it attract more than ghosts. It attracts the undead as well, zombies and the such. Now, I never said it attracts apostles, however, you’d think that it could. I mean, it has a stronger reaction to them, and that’s really who it is originally made for. The first apostle after the eclipse was indeed drawn towards Gatts and Casca, so it couldn’t have been anything other than the brand that was responsible for that. The simplest answer is usually the right one. The brand is known to attract monsters. I doubt that specific apostle had some special ability to “smell leftovers” or something, that’s a little silly, IMO. It had to be the brand. However, as stated, we don’t see apostles come out of nowhere to kill Gatts because of the brand. They usually don’t mention it, or face him, until they met him by other circumstances. My belief on this is that it's because the apostles, especially the greater apostles, have a higher level of sentiency. Like was already said, they have their own agenda’s. The lesser apostles seem to be somewhat drawn to the Brand, like that hobo n00b apostle after the eclipse, and the one that Zodd reprimanded in the last chapter. The greater apostles like Zodd, Locus, Grunbeld, etc…probably don’t worry about it too much because they have “better” things to do. Well, that’s my take on it anyway. Meanwhile mindless zombies and lost souls don’t have anything better to do, and are thus compelled to seek out and devour those who are branded. Otherwise normal people rarely see them, and are only endangered if they’re in the area of one of these monsters. Most apostles these days are in the Neo Band of the Hawk as well, so I doubt they’re allowed to go AWOL. Besides, the scent of the brand is probably only limited to a couple of miles. Although, the undead that afflict Gatts nightly seem to rise up out of the astral plane just to eat him. Thus it would seem that the apostles are too busy with other details, and for some its scent goes completely unnoticed. However, I can’t imagine them not having the ability to sense it, as it is meant to be a brand to them, showing possession to them. Those who are branded are just like cattle. Cowboys brand their cattle to show that they belong to them. It’s the same for sacrifices and apostles. It seems weird for worthless zombies to be able to sense the brand, and not the superior apostles. They're just not necessarily “drawn to it” because they're sentient and have free will.

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:04 am

I know the topis is closed, but I can't help say this: Cowboys brand their cattle, this much is true...but once they brand their cattle can they sense them from two miles away? ^_^ Sorry Starnum...could resist...please don't behead me!!

Post by **MrFelony** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:00 am

okay so thats about the longest paragraph i've seen on the forum since wyrm

. but you made some good points from what i was able to sift out of it

.

I think i'm agreeing with you here mostly.

the reason why i believe that the brand attracts souls is because the brand puts guts inbetween the astral realm and the physical realm. are the ghosts apart of the astral realm? I thought they were but i could be mistaken. Either way I picture it as a huge void or darkness pretty much. usually everything is devoured and the branded's soul (or whoever) join the darkness. What happened to Guts and casca is that they managed to escape and because of that they are like "little campfires" whose light is fighting against the darkness. much like when Guts was talking about the Hawks' campfires, when they are joined together their beacon/light becomes much stronger attracting many more visitors to their "campfires."

The reason why Guts got stronger and was able to do more because of the brand is because, as i remember the conversations with SK et al., he is in a constant state of limbo in the astral/material world. that and he is constantly having to fight the hardest opponents in the world. as for the brand, all im aware of it's side effects are attracting ghosts/spirits who sometimes inhabit animals or corpses, and bleeding/inflicting pain whenever he is near an apostle/godhand.

I sort of see the dead from the astral plane try to regain what they lost, the warmth that the "campfire" provide. campfire being the life Guts and casca still have. however Casca is a very special case. the spirits treat her much as they do griffith. instead of being eaten, they worship her in a manner. This is possibly because she gave birth to the deformed child who, thanks to the egg apostle, (IMO/theory) seprated the demonized child into guts and casca's child(the one on the beach) and the worldly griffith. Because casca served as this purpose could be why she is treated similar to griffith, much like many people treated Jesus' mother.

Post by **Istvan** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:29 pm

I sort of wonder if the spirits still treat her that way. They used to, sure, but my impression was that they were doing that because her child was controlling them and protecting her. Since the child is, more or less, gone, I'm not sure that the spirits still act that way towards her. Take a look at some of the chapters were she and Guts first start travelling together. It certainly looks as if Guts has to protect her, as well as himself, from them.

Post by **MrFelony** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:02 pm

or just protect himself

. Guts would still keep all the spirits away from casca whether or not they would do any harm to her

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:13 pm

I do vaguely remember that scene, in front of the cave in the snowy lands, right? Casca ran outside after something like a rat or something and then guts yelled at her to stay inside. He chased her out there and the ghosts were swarming her, but it didn't look as if they were doing anything (again I can't remember clearly). But then when guts ran up the ghosties got him and he choked her...hahaha GET SOME!!!! ^_^

Post by **Painfulchaos** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:36 pm

Hi guys, I'm pretty new here and I have posted abit to but mostly I've read. I just find what alot of people said very interesting to the point I never write cause I'm reading soo much. I don't exactly know how much worth my words are to you guys being that I just somewhat recently started reading the manga about 6 months ago.

Including I'm one of those types that downloaded the Volumes 1- 29 bittorrent and just read through it all to catch up. However I did see the anime a nice 6 or so years back but I'm not going to exactly compare the anime and manga. What I wanted to mention wat the fact the I remember somewhere someone mentioning that Guttz sword the Dragonslayer also grows strong the more it kills(something like the more blood that spills on it or something like that). So I just wanted to put out there aside from Guttz himself growing stronger his swords also grows with him. I also don't remember anything about the brand making him stronger, only way that is even possible is based on his feed on the pain of it.

And once again Hi guys and gals!

Post by **Starnum** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:21 am

Yep, we've discussed how the Dragon Slayer has pretty much become an astral weapon. It's pretty cool really.

Post by **MrFelony** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:44 am

i think it'd be interesting if Guts' body went under similar effects. his sword was forged by the deaths of the demons/spirits where as his body could have been tempered by the attacks he has suffered...interesting thought

Post by **Lord Rae** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:50 am

yeah its such an awesome idea besides just the story element...

and it also explains why his sword actually seems to kill them now...

wheras when he was first tooling around with it he kept having to resort to 10000 arrows and/or fire... Now they just seem to stay dead after he slices them up.

Post by **MrFelony** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:22 am

hmm I'm not sure about that because recently he hasn't really fought any apostles...or atleast killed them. the last one i think was the fairy one and she didnt really die right away...