Mozilla Firefox

[Daedelus]

You're quite right. The Download Counter is currently at 169 million. This does not include updates, mirrors, CVS, or distro redistributions. Most estimates put the browser at ~10% of total market share, I've seen some sites post upwards of 50% (admittedly, they're generally tech orientated). Mind you, this is ignoring the the two page spread that was purchased in the NYT. Or the countless articles about it.

No, you still haven't proven anything besides the fact that I typoed the zeros and didn't notice. Most estimates put it at ~10%... a drop in the bucket. Also, please re-read. I'm talking about unique downloads! I have personally gone and downloaded an installer, from the Mozilla/FF website many times. That's not letting FF update itself, using mirrors, playing with CVS or any of the other crap. 169 million downloads != 169 million users.

The sites that are upwards of 50%, throw them out. Don't even mention them, even with the disclaimer.I remember when there was a slashdot (god I hate that place) article touting that over 60% of their users were on FF, and therefore FF had 'made it' and beaten IE. Absolutely hilarious.

Two-page article in the Times? Big deal! They had 10,000 users (you know, about .000059% of downloads let alone unique users) donate some money to buy an ad. It's not like the Times ran the ad themselves because the program hid the main time.

That's not an ad hominem attack. That's actual logic. Also, please note that I actually use FF. It's crap like above that will hurt FF ever hitting mainstream.

[Femto]

Daedelus is a very sandy person.

[Buzkashi]

Daedelus is a very sandy person.

Yea he showed up and just went strait on the offensive.

[panasonic]

meh, its quite mainstream if most people i know use it, considering a lot of them are computer illiterate

[psi29a]

The problem is IE really, according to an article recently written by Dvorak (someone double check), he wrote that MS should drop IE, and invest in Mozilla or Opera.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Orchant/index.php?p=86

IE is a hole in which MS shovels money into, and basically makes the end-user (joe blow & jane doe)'s life harder than it needs to be.

Firefox isn't the silver bullet, and has it's own flaws. IE6 for me is in-effecient, however it is good enough to anyone who owns a computer with Windows installed.

[Daedelus]

Eh, I take anything Dvorak says with a giant grain of salt. He swore up, down and sideways on This Week in Tech that Apple would NOT switch to Intel, even when it was painfully obvious what the announcement was going to be. Not to mention he claimed Win95 would be DOA.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating IE here by any means. The developers are constantly patching up the browser to make it work in IE6. IE7 certainly borrows from FF (read: not stealing, competing) and it'll be interesting to see how the adoption of FF reacts after IE7 hits the mainstream public. Also, I've seen a lot of the old bugs that people complained about in IE6 fixed. I ran the beta for a while but wasn't a fan of it.

[dos.azn]

GO INTERNET EXPLORER!

[Quest]

the all in one gestures extension is pretty neat.
but sometimes i find myself subconsciously clicking back or close.
i guess i have to unlearn all those cognitive habits.

[Ayanami]

Does any one know if you can get Opera for free with out the ad banner now? That is my actual favorite of all the browsers, but the banner drove me crazy.

[Libaax]

So what if it takes a bit of the mem usage when its so much better than IE.
It doesnt slow me in any way.


FF is just awesome and better in many ways than crappy IE.

I like how it remembers every password and usernames,the google side bar is handy and it look is very neat.

[Daedelus]

So what if it takes a bit of the mem usage when its so much better than IE.
It doesnt slow me in any way.

(snip the fanboyism)

I like how it remembers every password and usernames,the google side bar is handy and it look is very neat.

If FF did something with that memory usage, then I wouldn't have such a problem with it. I actually use programs that are extremely memory intensive and it would be nice to have that 20mb free.

Also, you really can't use username/password storing as a pro-FF argument. IE does that.

[newbified]

I generally have to agree with Firefox being a resource hog. Right now I have 2 FireFox windows open, and it totals 68,016K of used RAM. This is a fresh FireFox install, nothing added to it.

Internet Explorer, where I have 4 open windows, is taking about just under 60,000K of RAM.

I really wish that FireFox would use less RAM, as I think it's one of the better browers I've used (granted, I hate the tab option...I always just open new windows) however, as it stands currently it's quite inefficient when it comes to using system resources compared to other competitors.

[Libaax]

So what if it takes a bit of the mem usage when its so much better than IE.
It doesnt slow me in any way.

(snip the fanboyism)

I like how it remembers every password and usernames,the google side bar is handy and it look is very neat.

If FF did something with that memory usage, then I wouldn't have such a problem with it. I actually use programs that are extremely memory intensive and it would be nice to have that 20mb free.

Also, you really can't use username/password storing as a pro-FF argument. IE does that.

Not the usuall IE version that comes with windows.

By storing i mean it stores your passwords and usewords without you asking for it or saving them manually. It saves time, its very handy.

[Daedelus]

Yes... that's exactly what IE does. I haven't changed IE since my last format (~month ago) in any way at all and it works exactly how FF's save passwords feature does.

[Libaax]

You must have newer IE than me cause i have never bother to download new version.

And i have never seen IE say "Remember?" like FF does.


I used IE before i discovered Netscape 7.0 and then finaly the awesome FF version before the new one.

[Daedelus]

I'm running IE6. What OS are you on?

[Buzkashi]

You're fighting a lost battle Libaax. I'm pretty sure daedulus is right.

[panasonic]

the only reason i dont use IE is that it takes forever to load pages even though i have cable. also it crashes a lot

[dos.azn]

GO MSN EXPLORER!

[Libaax]

It says IE fileversion is 6.0.2900.2180 so i geuss that means its IE 6.0


Im not trying to prove a point just saying one of the many reasons i dont like IE.

Even if does remember the password and usernames without me doing anything,i have used it and know i dont like it on many other reasons.


Other FF being safer and stuff, its almost as important that FF looks better

[Ayanami]

Just downloaded Opera again. Opera owns FF and IE.

That is all.

[Daedelus]

It says IE fileversion is 6.0.2900.2180 so i geuss that means its IE 6.0


Im not trying to prove a point just saying one of the many reasons i dont like IE.

Even if does remember the password and usernames without me doing anything,i have used it and know i dont like it on many other reasons.


Other FF being safer and stuff, its almost as important that FF looks better

So you admit that a reason you don't like IE is actually completely wrong. So you shouldn't even had said it in the first place. So now you don't like it for 'many other reasons'. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. Explain yourself with some fact-based logic, otherwise you come off as a zealot and hurt the advancement of FF.

FF is safer because of security through obscurity, which any true security expert will tell you is a very poor move. If the coin was flipped and IE had ~10% of the market with FF taking up the majority, I'd be willing to bet a great sum of money that you'd see a lot more exploits written to take advantage of FF. Same reason you don't see a lot of Mac or Linux exploits - the common user isn't there, so there's no point in taking advantage of that. That, and those communities are so small they are able to patch up any exploit that does surface before any real damage is done.

Just downloaded Opera again. Opera owns FF and IE.

That hurts me in my boy parts.

[psi29a]

Anyone can play deconstructionist, instead of bluntly clobbering the members here why not give some fact based information on why you use FF (or other browser) over any other.

It is safe to assume that each browser offers something that the other does not.

I can also point out flaws or rather the different ways each browser impliments their javascript, image rendering, and css that can be problematic.

onmousemove for example, works as expected in FF, Opera, and Safari (Konq), however is totally useless (eats 100% cpu time in our test case) which is useless to us. IE continously and activly polls for mouse movement, the other browsers just waits for mouse movements from the event handler which takes little cpu time.

Hopefully this is address in IE7, however it has come up in the past but never fixed.

[Albator]

I believe you're right, but do you think it really matter? I don't care of the technicality (I don't understand them anyway), if hackers leave me alone I'm perfectly content. I wouldn't fault Lib for saying that.

[Ayanami]

Just downloaded Opera again. Opera owns FF and IE.

That hurts me in my boy parts.

What can I say. I really like the damn browser.